Ask the Evangelical!

[dilloduck]

I believe this to be true. And the Bible says that God has written His words on our hearts so we don't sin. So, what about the people that don't have a conscience? Are they beyond help or repair? Why do some murderers become imprisioned and die as evil as they went in, and other's find Christ?

confusing isn't it"?

 

[Joz]

confusing isn't it"?

I think what I'm wondering about is this. I know that the Holy Spirit works with each one of us. That's how we all come to Christ. And I understand there are some who have already rejected the the Holy Spirit and are lost.

I guess my question is if you can commit cold blooded murder, what makes one chose to stay that way & the other find redemption?

 

[Hobbit]

I think what I'm wondering about is this. I know that the Holy Spirit works with each one of us. That's how we all come to Christ. And I understand there are some who have already rejected the the Holy Spirit and are lost.

I guess my question is if you can commit cold blooded murder, what makes one chose to stay that way & the other find redemption?

It all starts with acceptance that what you did was wrong. Some deny it, while others slowly come to realize the truth. From there it's all uphill.

 

[dilloduck]

I think what I'm wondering about is this. I know that the Holy Spirit works with each one of us. That's how we all come to Christ. And I understand there are some who have already rejected the the Holy Spirit and are lost.

I guess my question is if you can commit cold blooded murder, what makes one chose to stay that way & the other find redemption?

good question--I guess it would be a personal decision or the devils' doing?

 

[Nienna]

I think what I'm wondering about is this. I know that the Holy Spirit works with each one of us. That's how we all come to Christ. And I understand there are some who have already rejected the the Holy Spirit and are lost.

I guess my question is if you can commit cold blooded murder, what makes one chose to stay that way & the other find redemption?

That's a good question. Look at the case of Ted Bundy, a mass murderer, who, before he was executed, contacted the well-known evangelist Dr. Dobson. According to Dobson, Bundy confessed his sins and accepted his punishment and God's grace.

I think Hobbit had it right. It starts with responsibility for one's own actions and giving up (to Christ) the right to control one's own life. Some choose not to do this. Maybe they are hard-hearted. Maybe some think that God isn't big enough to forgive their sins.

 

[dilloduck]

That's a good question. Look at the case of Ted Bundy, a mass murderer, who, before he was executed, contacted the well-known evangelist Dr. Dobson. According to Dobson, Bundy confessed his sins and accepted his punishment and God's grace.

I think Hobbit had it right. It starts with responsibility for one's own actions and giving up (to Christ) the right to control one's own life. Some choose not to do this. Maybe they are hard-hearted. Maybe some think that God isn't big enough to forgive their sins.

ya lost me here--taking responsibilty but giving up control ?

 

[freeandfun1]

ya lost me here--taking responsibilty but giving up control ?

I Corinthians, Chapter 2

1: As for myself, brethren, when I came to you, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony and evidence or mystery and secret of God [concerning what He has done through Christ for the salvation of men] in lofty words of eloquence or human philosophy and wisdom;

2: For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified.

3: And I was in (passed into a state of) weakness and fear (dread) and great trembling [after I had come] among yuou.

4: And my language and my message were not set forth in persuasive (enticing and plausible) words of wisdom, but they were in demonstration of the [Holy] Spirit and power [a proof by the Spirit and power of God, operating on me and stirring in the minds of my hearers the most holy emotions and thus persuading them],

5: So that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the power of God.

6: Yet when we are among the fullgrown (spiritually mature Christians who are ripe in understanding), we do impart a [higher] wisdom (the knowledge of the divine plan previously hidden); but it is indeed not a wisdom of this present age or of this world nor of the leaders and rulers of this age, who are being brought to nothing and are doomed to pass away.

7: But rather what we are setting forth is wisdom of God once hidden [from the human understanding] and now revealed to us by God -- [that wisdom] which God devised and decreed before the ages for our glorification [to lift us into the glory of His presence].

8: None of the rulers of this age or worlds perceived and recognized and understood this, for if they had, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.

9: But, on the contrary, as the Scipture says, What eye has not seen and ear has not heard and has not entered into the heart of man, [all that] God has prepared (made and keeps ready) for those who love Him [who hold him in affectionate reverence, promptly obeying Him and gratefully recognizing the benefits He has bestowed]. [Isa. 64:4; 65:17.]

10: Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirity, for the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man's scrutiny].

11: For what person perceives (knows and understands) what passes through a man's thoughts except the man's own spirit within him? Just so no one discerns (comes to know and comprehend) the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

12: Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but hte [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.

13: And we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit].

14: But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless non-sense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them (of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them) because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

15: But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].

16: For who has known or understood the mind (the counsel and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart. [Isa. 40:13.]

I don't know why, but I felt this *might* help.....

 

[Hobbit]

ya lost me here--taking responsibilty but giving up control ?

Basically, it means that you fess up to the fact that you suck at being good, at least when compared to God. At that point, you begin to accept the consequences of your own decisions and start turning decision making power over to God, who is infinitely better at it than you.

On second thought, that sounds a bit negative. Make it sound cool and put my signature on it.

 

[Nienna]

On second thought, that sounds a bit negative. Make it sound cool and put my signature on it.

I thought it was a very clear explanation, but here's my try, Hobbit...

Basically, it means that you fess up to the fact that you suck at being good, at least when compared to God.

God is perfect, the definition of goodness, and we can never measure up to Him...

At that point, you begin to accept the consequences of your own decisions...

you take responsibility, and acknowledge that you deserve the punishment that is coming to you...

and start turning decision making power over to God, who is infinitely better at it than you.

...and freely choose to die to this world/self, giving up your God-given right to choose wrong. God, who is waiting for us to come to Him, will mold our lives and hearts according to His plan, the perfect idea of you that He had in His mind when He made you, and you will be fulfilled!

 

[dilloduck]

...and freely choose to die to this world/self, giving up your God-given right to choose wrong. God, who is waiting for us to come to Him, will mold our lives and hearts according to His plan, the perfect idea of you that He had in His mind when He made you, and you will be fulfilled

!

Give up my conscience? If I give up my right to choose, how can I possibly held responsible for anything I do from that point on?

 

[freeandfun1]

!

Give up my conscience? If I give up my right to choose, how can I possibly held responsible for anything I do from that point on?

If you surrender to God, then obviously, you will be doing His will.

 

[dilloduck]

If you surrender to God, then obviously, you will be doing His will.

and from that point on you are perfect?

 

[Nienna]

!

Give up my conscience? If I give up my right to choose, how can I possibly held responsible for anything I do from that point on?

Conscience and free will are two different things. It is possible to sear and silence your conscience (God's voice within you), through repeated defiance of His will.

Free will is still yours. We all, even those who have made the choice to submit to God's authority, can break away from it, or sin.

 

[Nienna]

and from that point on you are perfect?

We will only be perfected in Heaven.

 

[freeandfun1]

and from that point on you are perfect?

Nobody ever said that as one can always fall from grace. But if you surrender yourself to God, you will be as close to perfect as humanly possible. When you sin, as we all do, that is part of the human tragedy. However, by surrendering yourself to Christ, you can overcome your sins through God's grace and forgiveness.

Once one decides to walk with Christ, they will sin less and less and the Holy Spirit will begin to take over. Don't forget though, we are told very clearly that there is always a battle going on over our souls. So if you allow yourself to become weakened, then yes, you will fall from grace and return to your old ways. Surrending to Christ means doing all you can to stay in His good graces by doing the right thing.

No man is perfect and the Bible does not claim that any man is or can be. The point is that if you put your faith in our heavenly Father, then you wil be as close to perfect as possible.

 

[dilloduck]

Nobody ever said that as one can always fall from grace. But if you surrender yourself to God, you will be as close to perfect as humanly possible. When you sin, as we all do, that is part of the human tragedy. However, by surrendering yourself to Christ, you can overcome your sins through God's grace and forgiveness.

Once one decides to walk with Christ, they will sin less and less and the Holy Spirit will begin to take over. Don't forget though, we are told very clearly that there is always a battle going on over our souls. So if you allow yourself to become weakened, then yes, you will fall from grace and return to your old ways. Surrending to Christ means doing all you can to stay in His good graces by doing the right thing.

No man is perfect and the Bible does not claim that any man is or can be. The point is that if you put your faith in our heavenly Father, then you wil be as close to perfect as possible.

Good thing I have a conscience to help me make decisions.

 

[Nienna]

Good thing I have a conscience to help me make decisions.

Aw dillo, ya big lug! I don't know whether to or give you a big hug!

 

[dilloduck]

Aw dillo, ya big lug! I don't know whether to or give you a big hug!

I prefer hugs !

 

[freeandfun1]

So Dillo, do you really think that one's conscience is all they need to live by?

There are many that say their conscience tells them it is okay to molest kids, rape, murder, etc. I guess since they are following their conscience, we should just let it slide? There is a such thing as good conscience and bad conscience.

Just because a person's "conscience" tells them it is okay to do something, that does not mean that it is. Furthermore, when one sins, their conscience alone is not enough to be forgiven. If one has a "guilty" conscience, Christ gave His life so that they may receive forgiveness.

 

[dilloduck]

So Dillo, do you really think that one's conscience is all they need to live by?

There are many that say their conscience tells them it is okay to molest kids, rape, murder, etc. I guess since they are following their conscience, we should just let it slide? There is a such thing as good conscience and bad conscience.

Just because a person's "conscience" tells them it is okay to do something, that does not mean that it is. Furthermore, when one sins, their conscience alone is not enough to be forgiven. If one has a "guilty" conscience, Christ gave His life so that they may receive forgiveness.

No but I think also think that our conscience cannot be soley labled as a tool of the devil either. Socio-paths for example have no conscience to guide them. They do purely what they feel like doing with no remorse but using them as an example for the rest of us is an unfair comparison. Those of us who have a conscience often feel guilty for doing things that are NOT a sin.
The example always given is that if left to our own devices man would just run around being hedonistc and selfish but in many cultures without the bible this just doesn't happen.
How is the 'holy spirit" supposed to be listened to if we do not use our conscience to determine if it is a true message or not?