Ask the Evangelical!

[dilloduck]

Keep meditating on it---it'll come to ya if you try hard enough. :funnyface

Sorry Joz---that was rude and sarcastic. I'll try to ask my question in a manner the is easy to understand.

 

[dilloduck]

Many have initailly rejected the message. If they are truly seeking God, they will fing Him. It's a promise! :

I think there are many who find it difficult to abandon what their God given conscience tells them to follow just anyone who claims to have "the" answer. When people are urged to repent and follow "the way" you are essentially telling them that their God given conscience is flawed and they must not trust it. It is quite an assumption that these people haven't already been shown the way. Why were we even given a conscience if we weren't expected to use it. The people who had NO WAY of hearing Jesus' message were expected to follow what they "knew" to be right.

 

[Nienna]

So when is one to abandon his God given conscience to play hide and seek ?

'
Huh?

 

[dilloduck]

'
Huh?

scroll up--I rephrased it

 

[Nienna]

I think there are many who find it difficult to abandon what their God given conscience tells them to follow just anyone who claims to have "the" answer. When people are urged to repent and follow "the way" you are essentially telling them that their God given conscience is flawed and they must not trust it. It is quite an assumption that these people haven't already been shown the way. Why were we even given a conscience if we weren't expected to use it. The people who had NO WAY of hearing Jesus' message were expected to follow what they "knew" to be right.

I'm still not getting the question. "The Way" is perfectly in line with the God-given conscience. If they followed their God-given conscience, they would be following "The Way," even if they didn't know the name for it.

And the main thing that God wants from us is a person-to-person relationship. It's not just a formula of prescribed actions, and you aren't supposed to follow "anyone who claims to have 'the answer.'" You are supposed to get to know HIM, and obey HIM. (It's such a beautiful thing!)

 

[dilloduck]

I'm still not getting the question. "The Way" is perfectly in line with the God-given conscience. If they followed their God-given conscience, they would be following "The Way," even if they didn't know the name for it.

And the main thing that God wants from us is a person-to-person relationship. It's not just a formula of prescribed actions, and you aren't supposed to follow "anyone who claims to have 'the answer.'" You are supposed to get to know HIM, and obey HIM. (It's such a beautiful thing!)

Agreed---and each indivuals' relationship would be "the way" for that person--hence many ways, no?

If they followed their God-given conscience, they would be following "The Way," even if they didn't know the name for it.

maybe individuals who call it something different are still following the way God intended them to.

 

[Nienna]

Agreed---and each indivuals' relationship would be "the way" for that person--hence many ways, no?

Not many ways... many relationships. Each person will have a special, unique relationship with God. But He made it clear that a part of every relationship is obedience to Him.

 

[dilloduck]

Not many ways... many relationships. Each person will have a special, unique relationship with God. But He made it clear that a part of every relationship is obedience to Him.

Semantics----a special, unique, conscience driven realtionship is the way. We really have no idea what God says to other people and therefore no way to judge the level of his obedience.

 

[Nienna]

Agreed---and each indivuals' relationship would be "the way" for that person--hence many ways, no?



maybe individuals who call it something different are still following the way God intended them to.

Jesus made it clear that He is the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him. I thought we were talking about special provision for those who lived before Jesus or who hadn't heard the gospel message. If a person is following his God-given conscience, it will lead Him to God. If this person hears the gospel message, he will accept it.

John 10
The Shepherd and His Flock
1“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
7Therefore Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me– 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father–and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life–only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

 

[Nienna]

Semantics----a special, unique, conscience driven realtionship is the way. We really have no idea what God says to other people and therefore no way to judge the level of his obedience.

You're right! It's not our job to judge the hearts of others, only to obey. But through our own relationship with God, we can recognize the type of actions which are in accordance with His will. We can identify what is "right" and what is "wrong" by what he reveals to us. I think you and I have very different ideas about what exactly a God-given conscience is.

 

[dilloduck]

You're right! It's not our job to judge the hearts of others, only to obey. But through our own relationship with God, we can recognize the type of actions which are in accordance with His will. We can identify what is "right" and what is "wrong" by what he reveals to us. I think you and I have very different ideas about what exactly a God-given conscience is.

You bet--I'm glad he didn't tell us to go stomp on people who think are wrong tho. At least he didn't tell ME that one. I sure would hope we have different ideas on a god-given conscience--it would mess up our uniqueness!!

 

[manu1959]

Please don't feel this way, Manu. Asking questions is great!

Jesus=God. This is possibly the hardest thing about the faith to understand. We, as humans are bound by the laws of physics and our bodies (at least for now! ). God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, three in one, is not bound by these things; He created them!

no worries .... men tend to be that way when someone questions them ... women tend to help ..... but the crux of the argument is .... exactly what you said ..... that jesus equals god .... and the discusion was .... unless you belive that you are going to hell .... you see i do belive that god created everything and that you could get to heaven before christ existed ... and that adhearance to a dogmatic set of belifs is not a requirement .... living a moral and ethical life is .... and it about 40 years give or take i will find out


that said....thanks for answering my question

 

[Nienna]

You bet--I'm glad he didn't tell us to go stomp on people who think are wrong tho. At least he didn't tell ME that one. I sure would hope we have different ideas on a god-given conscience--it would mess up our uniqueness!!

No stomping, only loving. The conscience is God's voice within us, so it should be the same in everyone, since it is the same God. While our personalities and jobs are different, our sense of morality should be the same.

 

[Nienna]

no worries .... men tend to be that way when someone questions them ... women tend to help ..... but the crux of the argument is .... exactly what you said ..... that jesus equals god .... and the discusion was .... unless you belive that you are going to hell .... you see i do belive that god created everything and that you could get to heaven before christ existed ... and that adhearance to a dogmatic set of belifs is not a requirement .... living a moral and ethical life is .... and it about 40 years give or take i will find out


that said....thanks for answering my question

No problem. Thanks for the friendliness!

 

[dilloduck]

No stomping, only loving. The conscience is God's voice within us, so it should be the same in everyone, since it is the same God. While our personalities and jobs are different, our sense of morality should be the same.

We should all have the exact same sense of morality at exactly the same time? I don't even know 2 people on this board that agree on everything.

 

[Nienna]

We should all have the exact same sense of morality at exactly the same time? I don't even know 2 people on this board that agree on everything.

That's because we don't all look to the One who defines morality; we try to rely on our own perceptions of right and wrong. There will only be peace when all accept and submit to the authority of the One who created them.

 

[dilloduck]

That's because we don't all look to the One who defines morality; we try to rely on our own perceptions of right and wrong. There will only be peace when all accept and submit to the authority of the One who created them.

Even Christians on this board who are all looking to the same God have disagreements. Who's right?

 

[Nienna]

Even Christians on this board who are all looking to the same God have disagreements. Who's right?

God is right. Because of our damaged relationships with Him, we have different perceptions of His will. In order to figure out what is right in a particular situation, we have to utilize the tools He gave us. 1)Our consciences, 2)The Bible, and 3)Prayer and Fasting.

 

[dilloduck]

God is right. Because of our damaged relationships with Him, we have different perceptions of His will. In order to figure out what is right in a particular situation, we have to utilize the tools He gave us. 1)Our consciences, 2)The Bible, and 3)Prayer and Fasting.

whew---I KNEW my conscience was an important part of my spirituality !

 

[Joz]

No stomping, only loving. The conscience is God's voice within us, so it should be the same in everyone, since it is the same God. While our personalities and jobs are different, our sense of morality should be the same.

I believe this to be true. And the Bible says that God has written His words on our hearts so we don't sin. So, what about the people that don't have a conscience? Are they beyond help or repair? Why do some murderers become imprisioned and die as evil as they went in, and other's find Christ?