Are you willing to help society out in this manner?

[Anachronism]

That sums it up. There won't be any common ground here, I think.

Probably not.

See that depends, everyone is different. If I work a 9 to 5 and have a wife and kids at home, I will have an easier time accounting for what I did and where I was. However if you are single how do you really account for where you are in the evening hours when you are not at work? If I stayed in and watched tv or took a nap, who would vouch for me on this?

I'm a single guy who lives in an apartment with two roommates. Even without the roommates, I have downstairs neighbors that I see and interact with regularly. I have to log in electronically at the gym when I arrive. I have to log in and out electronically at work. I have a smart phone, and check my email, texts, etc... on it regularly. My IP address on my PC at home logs my activity when I'm on that. There really isn't a whole lot of time in my life that isn't being logged, videotaped, etc... and I don't think I'm that unusual of a person these days.

Additionally, I don't put myself in a position to even be a suspect. I don't hang around or associate with the type of people who do drugs, gangbang, etc.... The chances that I would even be a suspect are so ridiculously low that I wouldn't likely be questioned. the best defense.... don't be a suspect to begin with.

 

[Immanuel]

At the risk of seeming cruel.

How often is an innocent person executed?

I have been under the impression that it's extremely hard to execute someone, taking an average of 15 years.

And please no anti-DP sources, I will assume they are exagerating.

Here is a pretty good article I found. I don't know anything about the source, but the information seems to be verifiable if one wants to take the time.

Executed Innocents

Does it really matter how often this happens and the question was would you willingly be one of those innocents who were executed.

Immie

 

[High_Gravity]

That sums it up. There won't be any common ground here, I think.

Probably not.

See that depends, everyone is different. If I work a 9 to 5 and have a wife and kids at home, I will have an easier time accounting for what I did and where I was. However if you are single how do you really account for where you are in the evening hours when you are not at work? If I stayed in and watched tv or took a nap, who would vouch for me on this?

I'm a single guy who lives in an apartment with two roommates. Even without the roommates, I have downstairs neighbors that I see and interact with regularly. I have to log in electronically at the gym when I arrive. I have to log in and out electronically at work. I have a smart phone, and check my email, texts, etc... on it regularly. My IP address on my PC at home logs my activity when I'm on that. There really isn't a whole lot of time in my life that isn't being logged, videotaped, etc... and I don't think I'm that unusual of a person these days.

Additionally, I don't put myself in a position to even be a suspect. I don't hang around or associate with the type of people who do drugs, gangbang, etc.... The chances that I would even be a suspect are so ridiculously low that I wouldn't likely be questioned. the best defense.... don't be a suspect to begin with.

Thats good that you got all your bases covered but not everyone is so fortunate, alot of people have gotten locked up because they looked like the wrong person or drove the same type of car as the suspect, alot of times cops are just in a hurry to close up cases and really could care less if you did it or not.

 

[Immanuel]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

You make it sound voluntary. If wrongly convicted what choice do I have?

I don't think it's a deterrent to any but the one put to death, which works for me. Murderers are egomaniacs who never think they'll get caught

By no means would it be voluntary, but the question still stands, would you want to be executed for a crime you did not commit because it betters society?

Immie

 

[Anachronism]

1. If you execute the right person.

No. No matter who you execute, THEY will never commit another crime again; unless you have some proof for criminal acts committed by the dead. As to whether they're the right person or not, that's an issue for our screwed up Legal system.

2. Given the expensive legal protocol involved in PROVING and JUSTIFYING such a religious decision to terminate life where the state is basically seeking public approval for playing God, that is where it drags out and is not guaranteed deterrent.

Which is why I'm for reducing those restrictions and making it much EASIER to execute criminals. Especially the violent ones.

a. I believe more people woudl be more afraid of deportation and losing citizenship than sitting on death row with legal appeals, so I would propose signing agreements in advance that if someone is convicted of a capital offense, or any premediated crime especially abusing a firearm to commit robbery or rape, they agree to forfeit citizenship for the length of the sentence served in prison labor while an immigrant on the waiting list trades places and has a guest or lifetime visa to work legally in their place, many people would be glad to have the chance to work an honest living as a citizen instead of abusing that freedom to go commit violations against others.

I'm a "One Appeal, then Hang Them" type. Citizenship means nothing to a corpse.

b. Also of all the capital cases I have seen, more people kill to avoid prosecution by silencing the witness; this seems to be a greater motivation in the mind of the killer at the time than fear of capital punishment. They aren't thinking about getting killed, they are thinking of killing so they can escape justice altogether, to beat the system.

Which is why we need to return to a JUSTICE system from the current bureaucracy-driven LEGAL system we currently have in place.

I firmly believe that the same resources efforts and approach it would take to get rid of either capital crime or punishment would get rid of both at the same time. And everyone I know is against capital crime, so why not focus on that? The other will take care of itself!

If you can find a way to do that emily, you ought to start your own religion. You and I both know it is never going to happen. If you get rid of capital punishment then people like me would be forced to take matters into our own hands on occasions.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not sure where you are going with this. If we didn't have jails and prisons we would have disorder.

I did some quick reasearch and since 1973 111 or 130, depending on who's counting, innocent people have gotten off of death row. Which makes it look like the system works to me.

Dear TT:
You can set up maximum security hospitals for criminal sickness and correctional facilities that actually work effectively to change behavior to prevent recividism, instead of the prison contracts we have now that don't help, but backlog the system in a vicious cycle.

And for the innocent people who got off death row,
how much did that cost that person or cost the taxpayer?

How many other programs or jobs are suffering because these resources
were wasted on the wrong thing?

The saddest thing, TT, is that the programs I found that DO work best to stop the cycle of abuse, crime and incarceration are FREE. They receive no funding from the state, but are either voluntary based or nonprofits.

So why do our states waste billions on a failed prison and mental health system,
while the solutions cost nothing? Imagine if we took the state budget and paid for
more people to train to replicate the model solutions, how much more cost-effective
that would be, to invest very little into prevention instead of wasting a lot after the fact.

That is the approach I take. And compared to what the states are doing now,
I can never go back to thinking that way again. All those resources can be
converted into a secure system, of teaching hospitals, internships and research to replicate proven methods, that applies solutions to break the cycle of crime and waste.

 

[Anachronism]

Thats good that you got all your bases covered but not everyone is so fortunate, alot of people have gotten locked up because they looked like the wrong person or drove the same type of car as the suspect, alot of times cops are just in a hurry to close up cases and really could care less if you did it or not.

In August of 2002, I got the fright of my life.....

It was a Thursday evening. I left work in Worcester, MA and went home to Spencer, MA to retrieve two firearms that needed to be taken for a cleaning at a local gunshop before a match that weekend. I got the guns, stored them in a locked case in my trunk and headed back into Worcester. As I crossed over the Leicester/Worcester line on Route 9, a Massachusetts State Trooper pulled out of a parking lot behind me and turned his lights on. I pulled over to get out of his way and he pulled over behind me. WAY behind me.

I sat there wondering how I'd been "lucky" enough to get the one cop who would stop me for doing 35 in a 30 mph zone. I kept looking into my rear-view mirror expecting the officer to get out of the cruiser. He didn't. At least not until a second cruiser had arrived. Then my viewpoint changed. I had a half dozen pro-firearms bumper stickers on the car. Suddenly I wondered how I'd gotten the only pulled over by the only gun-hating state trooper I'd ever met.

As I looked back in my mirror, I saw the second trooper standing by the first cruiser, gun drawn and pointed at my car. As the first trooper approached the vehicle he had his hand on his sidearm. I was so scared it wasn't funny. The trooper knocked on my window and I rolled it down. He asked if I knew why he'd pulled me over and I said that I did not.

He informed me that my vehicle matched the decription of a vehicle used in an armed robbery about an hour earlier (remember, I have 2 firearms in the trunk). However, I didn't match the description of an asian female between 18-25 years old. I finally took a breath. He checked my license and registration and politely sent me on my way.

So, I've actually been there to one small degree. If nothing else, I could have proven that I was still at my office an hour earlier when the store had been robbed.

 

[High_Gravity]

Thats good that you got all your bases covered but not everyone is so fortunate, alot of people have gotten locked up because they looked like the wrong person or drove the same type of car as the suspect, alot of times cops are just in a hurry to close up cases and really could care less if you did it or not.

In August of 2002, I got the fright of my life.....

It was a Thursday evening. I left work in Worcester, MA and went home to Spencer, MA to retrieve two firearms that needed to be taken for a cleaning at a local gunshop before a match that weekend. I got the guns, stored them in a locked case in my trunk and headed back into Worcester. As I crossed over the Leicester/Worcester line on Route 9, a Massachusetts State Trooper pulled out of a parking lot behind me and turned his lights on. I pulled over to get out of his way and he pulled over behind me. WAY behind me.

I sat there wondering how I'd been "lucky" enough to get the one cop who would stop me for doing 35 in a 30 mph zone. I kept looking into my rear-view mirror expecting the officer to get out of the cruiser. He didn't. At least not until a second cruiser had arrived. Then my viewpoint changed. I had a half dozen pro-firearms bumper stickers on the car. Suddenly I wondered how I'd gotten the only pulled over by the only gun-hating state trooper I'd ever met.

As I looked back in my mirror, I saw the second trooper standing by the first cruiser, gun drawn and pointed at my car. As the first trooper approached the vehicle he had his hand on his sidearm. I was so scared it wasn't funny. The trooper knocked on my window and I rolled it down. He asked if I knew why he'd pulled me over and I said that I did not.

He informed me that my vehicle matched the decription of a vehicle used in an armed robbery about an hour earlier (remember, I have 2 firearms in the trunk). However, I didn't match the description of an asian female between 18-25 years old. I finally took a breath. He checked my license and registration and politely sent me on my way.

So, I've actually been there to one small degree. If nothing else, I could have proven that I was still at my office an hour earlier when the store had been robbed.

See so you know what I'm talking about, had you been an asian female you would have had a really difficult evening.

 

[Two Thumbs]

At the risk of seeming cruel.

How often is an innocent person executed?

I have been under the impression that it's extremely hard to execute someone, taking an average of 15 years.

And please no anti-DP sources, I will assume they are exagerating.

Here is a pretty good article I found. I don't know anything about the source, but the information seems to be verifiable if one wants to take the time.

Executed Innocents

Does it really matter how often this happens and the question was would you willingly be one of those innocents who were executed.

Immie

Thanks Immie.

From the link; "Justice: Denied unconditionally opposes capital punishment."

That means if someone takes your kids and slowly puts them through a meat grinder while you watch helplessly they will do all they can to keep him alive.

It's not a good source.

If this shoule happen to me. (I hate to quote Yahoo answers, but it seems consistant) I have 15 years, at least and 15 appeals to prove my innocents, after being proven guilty.

With that many chances and all the volunteers out there working to get me off, I'd say I would have to be guilty if I was actually in the chair after that many chances.

Your question assumes innocents have been executed. The system is set up to prevent that.

 

[Anachronism]

See so you know what I'm talking about, had you been an asian female you would have had a really difficult evening.

Probably. At least until I provided the names and phone numbers of the 15-20 people I worked with who would have confirmed that I had been sitting at my desk in an office in a totally different part of town when the robbery occured.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Not sure where you are going with this. If we didn't have jails and prisons we would have disorder.

I did some quick reasearch and since 1973 111 or 130, depending on who's counting, innocent people have gotten off of death row. Which makes it look like the system works to me.

Dear TT:
You can set up maximum security hospitals for criminal sickness and correctional facilities that actually work effectively to change behavior to prevent recividism, instead of the prison contracts we have now that don't help, but backlog the system in a vicious cycle. Wrong. Both rehab and punishment have been used. Both fail to prevent repeat offenders. Punishment is cheaper.

And for the innocent people who got off death row,
how much did that cost that person or cost the taxpayer? Who cares? Would you rather let a killer go just to make sure no one is convicted?

How many other programs or jobs are suffering because these resources
were wasted on the wrong thing? none

The saddest thing, TT, is that the programs I found that DO work best to stop the cycle of abuse, crime and incarceration are FREE. They receive no funding from the state, but are either voluntary based or nonprofits. That's b/c people that want to rehab will rehab, with or w/o much help.

So why do our states waste billions on a failed prison and mental health system,
while the solutions cost nothing? so are you saying let a serial rappist go? Imagine if we took the state budget and paid for
more people to train to replicate the model solutions, how much more cost-effective
that would be, to invest very little into prevention instead of wasting a lot after the fact. You have never met an actual criminal have you.

That is the approach I take. And compared to what the states are doing now,
I can never go back to thinking that way again. All those resources can be
converted into a secure system, of teaching hospitals, internships and research to replicate proven methods, that applies solutions to break the cycle of crime and waste.

I take it you are a psycology major. We had one for every pod in jail. Each one burned out in about a year.

But I wish you the best of luck.

 

[R.D.]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

You make it sound voluntary. If wrongly convicted what choice do I have?

I don't think it's a deterrent to any but the one put to death, which works for me. Murderers are egomaniacs who never think they'll get caught

By no means would it be voluntary, but the question still stands, would you want to be executed for a crime you did not commit because it betters society?

Immie

They system is flawed but I am pro death penalty in some cases.

If wrongly convicted my death would not harm society.

 

[Douger]

Fuck no. What kind of assinine question is that.

No chillunz be giddin leff behine N shit

 

[High_Gravity]

Fuck no. What kind of assinine question is that.

No chillunz be giddin leff behine N shit

Put the crack pipe down retard.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

It's time that we faced the fact that the death penalty is not a deterrent. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. We should use it... but we should use it sparingly and with great care.

It's not a deterrent? I can guarantee those that have been executed are deterred.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The death penalty really isn't a deterrent though, criminals don't think "well I should probably not kill those people or I will get the death penalty", most of them don't even worry about it until after the fact and they have to cop a plea to avoid it.

Copping pleas is what should be outlawed.

 

[xsited1]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

I don't see where PoliticalChic said that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed. A little help, please.

 

[Sheldon]

I don't know the numbers but on the same token, why not just get rid of all prisons? there are innocent men and women in prison as well, so maybe we should just rid of everything so innocent people aren't convicted anymore.

Not sure where you are going with this. If we didn't have jails and prisons we would have disorder.

I did some quick reasearch and since 1973 111 or 130, depending on who's counting, innocent people have gotten off of death row. Which makes it look like the system works to me.

I was being sarcastic, if we are going to get rid of the death penalty because innocent people are killed, we should also get rid of all prisons because there are many innocent people in there as well.

I think the fundamental difference is that if a person is wrongfully incarcerated, they can be released and financially compensated. That's not perfect, because you can't get back all those years of missed experiences that money can't buy. But it is a degree of repayment that just doesn't exist in the case of execution where death is absolute and irreversible.

 

[High_Gravity]

Not sure where you are going with this. If we didn't have jails and prisons we would have disorder.

I did some quick reasearch and since 1973 111 or 130, depending on who's counting, innocent people have gotten off of death row. Which makes it look like the system works to me.

I was being sarcastic, if we are going to get rid of the death penalty because innocent people are killed, we should also get rid of all prisons because there are many innocent people in there as well.

I think the fundamental difference is that if a person is wrongfully incarcerated, they can be released and financially compensated. That's not perfect, because you can't get back all those years of missed experiences that money can't buy. But it is a degree of repayment that just doesn't exist in the case of execution where death is absolute and irreversible.

If you get a life sentence though for something you didn't do, you face spending the rest of your natural life in prison, I would rather be killed than live like that.

 

[Immanuel]

You make it sound voluntary. If wrongly convicted what choice do I have?

I don't think it's a deterrent to any but the one put to death, which works for me. Murderers are egomaniacs who never think they'll get caught

By no means would it be voluntary, but the question still stands, would you want to be executed for a crime you did not commit because it betters society?

Immie

They system is flawed but I am pro death penalty in some cases.

If wrongly convicted my death would not harm society.

Nor would it benefit society which is the question at hand.

Immie