Are you willing to help society out in this manner?

[Sheldon]

I was being sarcastic, if we are going to get rid of the death penalty because innocent people are killed, we should also get rid of all prisons because there are many innocent people in there as well.

I think the fundamental difference is that if a person is wrongfully incarcerated, they can be released and financially compensated. That's not perfect, because you can't get back all those years of missed experiences that money can't buy. But it is a degree of repayment that just doesn't exist in the case of execution where death is absolute and irreversible.

If you get a life sentence though for something you didn't do, you face spending the rest of your natural life in prison, I would rather be killed than live like that.

I meant that if you're serving a sentence but get released early when it's found out you are innocent of the crime. But yeah, I think if I was actually guilty of a first-degree murder and could choose between life imprisonment in the SuperMax's 23 hour a day solitary confinement or execution, I'd choose the second one.

 

[Immanuel]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

I don't see where PoliticalChic said that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed. A little help, please.

Have you seen the studies that conclude that a robust death penalty application results in fewer deaths of innocent folks?

How does that factor in to what I see as an obligation to protect society?


"In the early 1980s, the return of the death penalty was associated with a drop in the number of murders. In the mid-to-late 1980s, when the number of executions stabilized at about 20 per year, the number of murders increased. Throughout the 1990s, our society increased the number of executions, and the number of murders plummeted. Since 2001, there has been a decline in executions and an increase in murders.

It is possible that this correlated relationship could be mere coincidence, so we did a regression analysis on the 26-year relationship. The association was significant at the .00005 level, which meant the odds against the pattern being simply a random happening are about 18,000 to one. Further analysis revealed that each execution seems to be associated with 71 fewer murders in the year the execution took place."

Capital Punishment Works - WSJ.com


Protect the innocent.

The implication being that if a few innocent people die it deters other criminals from committing crimes and thus it is worth it.

Followed by this:

Your question is an absurd deflection from the point....the death penalty saves lives, but folks who spealk as you do refuse to take the responsibility necessary to protect society.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

Wow.

The government putting to death innocents is nothing more than state sponsored murder. I'm surprised at PC.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

I don't see where PoliticalChic said that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed. A little help, please.

Have you seen the studies that conclude that a robust death penalty application results in fewer deaths of innocent folks?

How does that factor in to what I see as an obligation to protect society?


"In the early 1980s, the return of the death penalty was associated with a drop in the number of murders. In the mid-to-late 1980s, when the number of executions stabilized at about 20 per year, the number of murders increased. Throughout the 1990s, our society increased the number of executions, and the number of murders plummeted. Since 2001, there has been a decline in executions and an increase in murders.

It is possible that this correlated relationship could be mere coincidence, so we did a regression analysis on the 26-year relationship. The association was significant at the .00005 level, which meant the odds against the pattern being simply a random happening are about 18,000 to one. Further analysis revealed that each execution seems to be associated with 71 fewer murders in the year the execution took place."

Capital Punishment Works - WSJ.com


Protect the innocent.

The implication being that if a few innocent people die it deters other criminals from committing crimes and thus it is worth it.

Followed by this:

Your question is an absurd deflection from the point....the death penalty saves lives, but folks who spealk as you do refuse to take the responsibility necessary to protect society.

Immie

No wonder she didn't respond to your accusation.

she back her post up with facts. Refute her facts.

crap, sucked into some bullshit cuz I didn't check the link.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

Wow.

The government putting to death innocents is nothing more than state sponsored murder. I'm surprised at PC.

do some research.

I have, and I've found nothing stating that an innocent was executed.

 

[Immanuel]

There have been many comments in these two threads about the fact that a person on death row still has maybe twenty or more years to live so what is the big deal.

If you consider being confined to a 6 X 10 cell for 23 hours a day with the prospect of your life ending at the hands of an unjust government (unjust because you are innocent and condemned) living, then I pity you. For me, every minute in prison, let alone on death row would be a living hell.

And Two Thumbs that link I gave you spoke of people that were convicted and executed some of whom were innocent others who there is reasonable doubt as to whether or not they were guilty.

It seems some are more than happy to sacrifice others for the greater good. Me, I don't want the government executing innocent people in my name for the "greater good".

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I don't see where PoliticalChic said that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed. A little help, please.

The implication being that if a few innocent people die it deters other criminals from committing crimes and thus it is worth it.

Followed by this:

Your question is an absurd deflection from the point....the death penalty saves lives, but folks who spealk as you do refuse to take the responsibility necessary to protect society.

Immie

No wonder she didn't respond to your accusation.

she back her post up with facts. Refute her facts.

crap, sucked into some bullshit cuz I didn't check the link.

In this case you are full of bullshit TT.

She didn't back up shit. She simply claimed this was for the greater good.

Which evidently you believe. Perhaps you should journey to the nearest prosecutors office and volunteer?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

Wow.

The government putting to death innocents is nothing more than state sponsored murder. I'm surprised at PC.

do some research.

I have, and I've found nothing stating that an innocent was executed.

The actual facts were presented to you. You chose to stick your two cents in without investigating them. Denial of the facts presented in the link does not make them untrue.

Immie

 

[xsited1]

Are you willing to help society in this manner?

Politicalchic has avoided this question so I ask all of you.

Politicalchic has made the statement in another thread (I will link to it later) that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed because (I am reading into her statement here) the death penalty acts as a deterrent to future crimes.

So, I ask this question of you:

Are you willing to be executed for a crime you did not commit in order to better society?

Simple question with a yes or no answer. But, please feel free to elaborate on your answer in this thread.

Link to thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...life-and-pro-death-penalty-5.html#post3495010

Thank you all,

Immie

I don't see where PoliticalChic said that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed. A little help, please.

Have you seen the studies that conclude that a robust death penalty application results in fewer deaths of innocent folks?

How does that factor in to what I see as an obligation to protect society?


"In the early 1980s, the return of the death penalty was associated with a drop in the number of murders. In the mid-to-late 1980s, when the number of executions stabilized at about 20 per year, the number of murders increased. Throughout the 1990s, our society increased the number of executions, and the number of murders plummeted. Since 2001, there has been a decline in executions and an increase in murders.

It is possible that this correlated relationship could be mere coincidence, so we did a regression analysis on the 26-year relationship. The association was significant at the .00005 level, which meant the odds against the pattern being simply a random happening are about 18,000 to one. Further analysis revealed that each execution seems to be associated with 71 fewer murders in the year the execution took place."

Capital Punishment Works - WSJ.com


Protect the innocent.

The implication being that if a few innocent people die it deters other criminals from committing crimes and thus it is worth it.

Followed by this:

Your question is an absurd deflection from the point....the death penalty saves lives, but folks who spealk as you do refuse to take the responsibility necessary to protect society.

Immie

That seems like a stretch to me, but thanks for the response. If the study is true and the death penalty is a deterrent, then it would make sense to use it as long as the person to be executed is truly guilty. A good example would be somebody like Timothy McVeigh. Of course there's another reason for the death penalty: Justice. Here's a sad case:

Death Row Killer Outlives Victim's Heartbroken Dad Who Sought Justice for 27 Years

 

[Two Thumbs]

Wow.

The government putting to death innocents is nothing more than state sponsored murder. I'm surprised at PC.

do some research.

I have, and I've found nothing stating that an innocent was executed.

The actual facts were presented to you. You chose to stick your two cents in without investigating them. Denial of the facts presented in the link does not make them untrue.

Immie

I told you before hand that any link to an extreme site would be disreguarded as exageration.

That's a polite way of saying people lie. and the first line they said they were agaisnt it no matter what. so why bother reading what I knew would be filled with lies?

as far as sticking my nose in. You invited the entire board. Used your rep as a straight shooter and lied to all of us.

Your accusation is based on an assumption of what you think PC said.

She shoulda told you to fuck off with your make believe bullshit. Cuz it's what I am doing.

 

[Si modo]

Can I volunteer Tank to help out society, though?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There have been many comments in these two threads about the fact that a person on death row still has maybe twenty or more years to live so what is the big deal.

If you consider being confined to a 6 X 10 cell for 23 hours a day with the prospect of your life ending at the hands of an unjust government (unjust because you are innocent and condemned) living, then I pity you. For me, every minute in prison, let alone on death row would be a living hell.

And Two Thumbs that link I gave you spoke of people that were convicted and executed some of whom were innocent others who there is reasonable doubt as to whether or not they were guilty.

It seems some are more than happy to sacrifice others for the greater good. Me, I don't want the government executing innocent people in my name for the "greater good".

Immie

You're not confined to a cell for 23 hours a day unless you're in solitiary confinement.

Do not speak of what you do not know.

 

[Immanuel]

I don't see where PoliticalChic said that it helps society to let an innocent person be executed. A little help, please.

The implication being that if a few innocent people die it deters other criminals from committing crimes and thus it is worth it.

Followed by this:

Your question is an absurd deflection from the point....the death penalty saves lives, but folks who spealk as you do refuse to take the responsibility necessary to protect society.

Immie

That seems like a stretch to me, but thanks for the response. If the study is true and the death penalty is a deterrent, then it would make sense to use it as long as the person to be executed is truly guilty. A good example would be somebody like Timothy McVeigh. Of course there's another reason for the death penalty: Justice. Here's a sad case:

Death Row Killer Outlives Victim's Heartbroken Dad Who Sought Justice for 27 Years

I am not opposed to the death penalty and never claimed to be.

But one innocent life stolen is too many.

The question presented in the OP was if you would be willing to be one of those.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

do some research.

I have, and I've found nothing stating that an innocent was executed.

The actual facts were presented to you. You chose to stick your two cents in without investigating them. Denial of the facts presented in the link does not make them untrue.

Immie

I told you before hand that any link to an extreme site would be disreguarded as exageration.

That's a polite way of saying people lie. and the first line they said they were agaisnt it no matter what. so why bother reading what I knew would be filled with lies?

as far as sticking my nose in. You invited the entire board. Used your rep as a straight shooter and lied to all of us.

Your accusation is based on an assumption of what you think PC said.

She shoulda told you to fuck off with your make believe bullshit. Cuz it's what I am doing.

That is right, we all know your MO is to not accept anything or read anything that does not immediately conform to your point of view.

Nothing I said was make believe. I provided links to the discussion and gave my interpretation of that discussion so that everyone could make up their own mind. I also made it very clear that I was interpreting her statements with this comment, "I am reading into her statement here". Most did. You on the other hand simply discount anything that doesn't conform to your rigid set of beliefs and tell everyone else to fuck off.

That is why you are becoming little more than a troll.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

There have been many comments in these two threads about the fact that a person on death row still has maybe twenty or more years to live so what is the big deal.

If you consider being confined to a 6 X 10 cell for 23 hours a day with the prospect of your life ending at the hands of an unjust government (unjust because you are innocent and condemned) living, then I pity you. For me, every minute in prison, let alone on death row would be a living hell.

And Two Thumbs that link I gave you spoke of people that were convicted and executed some of whom were innocent others who there is reasonable doubt as to whether or not they were guilty.

It seems some are more than happy to sacrifice others for the greater good. Me, I don't want the government executing innocent people in my name for the "greater good".

Immie

You're not confined to a cell for 23 hours a day unless you're in solitiary confinement.

Do not speak of what you do not know.

Fine, then can we assume that you would be more than happy to spend the rest of your life on death row for the good of the people despite the fact that you are innocent?

Immie

 

[xsited1]

The implication being that if a few innocent people die it deters other criminals from committing crimes and thus it is worth it.

Followed by this:



Immie

That seems like a stretch to me, but thanks for the response. If the study is true and the death penalty is a deterrent, then it would make sense to use it as long as the person to be executed is truly guilty. A good example would be somebody like Timothy McVeigh. Of course there's another reason for the death penalty: Justice. Here's a sad case:

Death Row Killer Outlives Victim's Heartbroken Dad Who Sought Justice for 27 Years

I am not opposed to the death penalty and never claimed to be.

But one innocent life stolen is too many.

The question presented in the OP was if you would be willing to be one of those.

Immie

There are plenty of people willing to die for the good of society. You're taking an extreme example, but okay.

 

[Immanuel]

That seems like a stretch to me, but thanks for the response. If the study is true and the death penalty is a deterrent, then it would make sense to use it as long as the person to be executed is truly guilty. A good example would be somebody like Timothy McVeigh. Of course there's another reason for the death penalty: Justice. Here's a sad case:

Death Row Killer Outlives Victim's Heartbroken Dad Who Sought Justice for 27 Years

I am not opposed to the death penalty and never claimed to be.

But one innocent life stolen is too many.

The question presented in the OP was if you would be willing to be one of those.

Immie

There are plenty of people willing to die for the good of society. You're taking an extreme example, but okay.

There are truly plenty of people willing to die for the good of society. A rather large count of them are currently in Afghanistan and Iraq with even more spread out throughout the U.S. and other military bases.

How extreme do you think it is? We might think, 23 people out of 330 million is not a big deal but then we have not had 330 million people in this nation until recently. What was the average population from 1900 to 1987? But even that is not the point, one should look at the population on death row, right?

Twenty three innocent people were allegedly executed between 1/1/1900 and 11/1987. How many total people were executed in that time?

I'm looking for that now, here is something from 1976 on:

Executions by Year | Death Penalty Information Center

This one goes from 1930 and shows 4,863 since that time.

Number of Persons Executed by Jurisdiction, 1930–2008 — Infoplease.com

I'm going to stop searching now, but if we are talking like something like 23 innocent people out of 5000 +/- it puts a different perspective on things as compared to 23 out of 330 million.

Executions by Year | Death Penalty Information Center

Immie

 

[George Costanza]

YES. If I am insufficiently able to prove that I did not have the motive, means, and opportunity to commit a sufficiently heinous crime and am convicted for it, I would have no problem being executed for it.

BTW - So far as I'm aware, execution is a 100% proven deterent to future criminal activity for everyone that it's used on. That's good enough for me.

Innocent until proven guilty is one of the core ideals of a Western liberal democracy.

Well, thank goodness our conservative friends don't have to be bothered by such legal technicalities.

 

[JBeukema]

YES. If I am insufficiently able to prove that I did not have the motive, means, and opportunity to commit a sufficiently heinous crime

That's not how it's supposed to work

 

[JBeukema]

It's time that we faced the fact that the death penalty is not a deterrent. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. We should use it... but we should use it sparingly and with great care.

I'm slowly seeing that our government..or any government for that matter can't be trusted to do this correctly.

For me the death penalty should only be used on indivduals that are so dangerous to society the possibly of their release or escape poses a grave threat.

And the way it's been used here is for "revenge" or notches in a prosecutor's belt.

Wouldn't being left to rot in a dungeon be a worse punishment anyway?