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This thread reminds me of the one truly interesting question from the Political Compass Test:
Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity.
- Strongly Disagree
- Disagree
- Agree
- Strongly Agree
I understand that I don't need everything I have. I am well aware of this. Everyone else who reads this thread, I am not saying that I personally need a cell phone, or this computer, or my microwave, etc.
The point of this thread is, that in order to have anything, ANYTHING, whether you need it or not, in order to obtain almost any materials requires supporting corporations: even housing, food, clothing, and water. Even the necessities. Especially luxuries and my climbing gear, and all of that, but even the necessities. Unless one becomes impoverished and homeless.
So do you think that someone could survive without buying from corporations? If I bought my food from a farmer's market and dried it
How about on your back, on your bike, in a wagon in your car.how would I transport it,
with what would I dry it?
Would it be enough to nourish me?
Farmer's markets are usually once a week. Can I get enough fresh food to survive on once a week?
HMM dirt and seeds. where would you get those?Where would I get the necessities I would have to have in order to grow my own food?
Where woud I grow my food? In my apartment or house?:
Where would I live
, and with what marerials would I build my shelter?
would I get to and from my shelter from work?
Where would I get the materials to make my clothing?
How would I sew that material together? Where would the tailor or seamstress get his/her power, his/her locations, his/her materials?
But that is ALL beside the point. The point is, that if you live in modern society, your life is probably under constant influence from large corporations.
Even and including the regulations and laws by which we must abide to avoid fines and/or jail time
and further recriminations like when applying for a job and having your background checked.
Or live as a wandering bum. That's our choice. Either corporate slave, or puppet, or pawn, whatever word you want to use, and the subsequent meaninglessness, or bum and the consequent meanlinglessness.
I've been thinking about this a lot and see no other alternatives... Its almost like how do I make the best out of a shitty situation.
You guys need to define what "dependant on the system" means, because purchasing goods and services in the marketplace is not dependant in and of itself.
Some corps make every effort to be ethically and socially responsible. Mountain man is lumping all corps into some kind of collective of evil.
Well, if you really feel the need to get personal Skull Pilot, go ahead. But, I'm hardly a spoled brat: I grew up poor with alcholic, abusive, neglectful parents. I joined the US Marines and served honorably for 4 years. I used that money to attend college. I've educated myself since then. I've been homeless (by choice), living out of tent or a backpack for months at a time. I've always worked for a living. I've never received any form of government hand-out.
What I don't see are alternatives to supporting large corporations which influence the government with their money, resources, lobbyists, to promote the regulations which enable them to better do business and hurt small businesses and opportunities for the rest of us to start and maintain a small business and actually make a decent living (even with a great idea), beyond quitting society and living as a bum (which seems meaningless to me).
Perhaps, o wise one, you could offer what those alternatives were instead of lowering yourself to insult me?
Do you really think this is whining? What am I whining about? This is a philosophical point of view that I put out there to get some feedback. Granted, that opens me up to petty insults and unconstructive criticism, but I thought that you would consider yourself above such behaviors, Skull Pilot (I have read many insightful posts by you), and it seems stupid that you would, instead, get personal.
I guess your thinking is unlimited. I bow down to thee, o great one. You've assured yourself a place in the realm of the credible, just, and wise.
Well, if you really feel the need to get personal Skull Pilot, go ahead. But, I'm hardly a spoled brat: I grew up poor with alcholic, abusive, neglectful parents. I joined the US Marines and served honorably for 4 years. I used that money to attend college. I've educated myself since then. I've been homeless (by choice), living out of tent or a backpack for months at a time. I've always worked for a living. I've never received any form of government hand-out.
What I don't see are alternatives to supporting large corporations which influence the government with their money, resources, lobbyists, to promote the regulations which enable them to better do business and hurt small businesses and opportunities for the rest of us to start and maintain a small business and actually make a decent living (even with a great idea), beyond quitting society and living as a bum (which seems meaningless to me).
Perhaps, o wise one, you could offer what those alternatives were instead of lowering yourself to insult me?
Do you really think this is whining? What am I whining about? This is a philosophical point of view that I put out there to get some feedback. Granted, that opens me up to petty insults and unconstructive criticism, but I thought that you would consider yourself above such behaviors, Skull Pilot (I have read many insightful posts by you), and it seems stupid that you would, instead, get personal.
I guess your thinking is unlimited. I bow down to thee, o great one. You've assured yourself a place in the realm of the credible, just, and wise.
OK let me get this straight.
" My life is shitty because i only have two choices. I can either be a corporate slave or an impoverished bum"
yup sounds like whining to me.
You guys need to define what "dependant on the system" means, because purchasing goods and services in the marketplace is not dependant in and of itself.
Some corps make every effort to be ethically and socially responsible. Mountain man is lumping all corps into some kind of collective of evil.
What exactly would you like to see happen, mountain? I noticed you ALSO complained about tight regs keeping the little guy down. How do you reconcile your liberal positions then? The liberal is typically in favor of stricter regulations, so how do you get to have it both ways?
Who do you want to be the one selling you what you want and need? Do you want to see all corps dissolved, and only have private proprietorships? I'm not understand what exactly it is your complaining about. If standard of living is something you're not willing to lose out on, then who would you prefer to see supplying the market?
Perhaps you should consider the fact that the demand side is just as much responsible for out of control corporations as the corps themselves. As long as there's ignorant oblivious sheep out there demanding all the crap these corps are pitching, there's going to be corps and there's nothing any amount of bitching about it is going to do. The big mega corps didn't grow to their size out of magic. They got big because we're one big collective of greedy, selfish morons. ALL OF US.
psst...
corporations are actually people.
I was going to let this go but I changed my mind.
You say you have no choice but to enrich and thereby be enslaved by corporations or be nothing but an impoverished bum.
In reality you have endless choices but you choose to limit yourself two but two.
I did give you a few ways you could live without getting necessities from corporations and there are many more ways you could.
the hard truth here is that you don't want to make the choices that will free you from your so called slavery to corporations.
You could make every action in your life a choice NOT to be enslaved by a corporation. But you refuse. You refuse because what takes you 20 minutes now, going to the Super Stop and Shop for groceries for instance, would take you hours more a week.
If you had to tend a garden, indoors or out, and preserve your fruits and vegetables yourself, you would be spending your weekends and evenings working these chores. And that's just food. what if you chose to make your own clothing, how many hours would that take a week, a year?
but you choose to go climbing, backpacking, kayaking, camping in your free time and on the way to the mountains you pull into a Denny's and have a 5 dollar breakfast and complain that you are a slave. Is that not whining?
gee those corporations really ruined your life huh?
Hey CMan,
The simple fact of the matter is that the corporate model that dominates business today got there because it is more effiecient than the distributed, local model you seem to pine for. But make no mistake about it, when you buy a big corp tv from a big corp retail chain, you are still helping to support and feed the average joes that earn their living working for them. I'm surprised you don't see that.
Hey CMan,
The simple fact of the matter is that the corporate model that dominates business today got there because it is more effiecient than the distributed, local model you seem to pine for. But make no mistake about it, when you buy a big corp tv from a big corp retail chain, you are still helping to support and feed the average joes that earn their living working for them. I'm surprised you don't see that.
Actually, I DO see that. I just think things would be better if those people I feed when I buy stuff would appreciate the opportunity to eat because I bought the stuff they produced, manufactured, distributed, grew, or sold for themselves and not for Mr. McDonald, or Coca-Cola, or Wal-Mart, or whatever.
And although it may be more EFFICIENT to have an economy structured on the corporate model, it just doesn't seem very humane.
I feel like we're all zombies in a long grey corridor that work for the wealthy few and only some of us ever get to get out of the system. I'm not saying everyone WANTS to, but I think most of us do. Or am I wrong?
I live in a thatched-roof mud hut, wearing a loin cloth made from the skin of a lamb that I slaughtered by violently twisting its neck. I grow all of my crops, and till the soil with my bare hands.
I eat cheese made from my wife's breastmilk, which I hand churned.
The only item that I own that was made by a corporation is my computer...and of course my cable modem.