Are We Alone in the Universe?

[task0778]

true enough but we will soon have designer bacteria that can turn CO2 into carbon and oxygen, powered by the sun. put a small number into the Venusian atmosphere and stand back

Hmmm. That would be intriguing to watch wouldn't it. All we have to do is determine that there is no sentient life on Venus that we would be interfering with and it could be a really fun experiment.

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

If the bacteria could grow and reproduce exponentially they would remove the majority of the CO2 in a very short time. Once the greenhouse is under control the planet would be warmer than Mars and have plenty of oxygen derived from the CO2. Tee shirt and shorts.

Uh-huh. It might eventually be doable but I remain a bit skeptical. Consider this:

Venus is the hottest world in the solar system. Although Venus is not the planet closest to the sun, its dense atmosphere traps heat in a runaway version of the greenhouse effect that warms Earth. As a result, temperatures on Venus reach 870 degrees Fahrenheit (465 degrees Celsius), more than hot enough to melt lead. Probes that scientists have landed there have survived only a few hours before being destroyed.

Venus has a hellish atmosphere as well, consisting mainly of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid, and scientists have only detected trace amounts of water in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is heavier than that of any other planet, leading to a surface pressure 90 times that of Earth. Incredibly, however, early in Venus' history the planet may have been habitable, according to models from NASA researchers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The surface of Venus is extremely dry. During its evolution, ultraviolet rays from the sun evaporated water quickly, keeping it in a prolonged molten state. There is no liquid water on its surface today because the scorching heat created by its ozone-filled atmosphere would cause any to boil away. Roughly two-thirds of the Venusian surface is covered by flat, smooth plains that are marred by thousands of volcanoes, some which are still active today, ranging from about 0.5 to 150 miles (0.8 to 240 kilometers) wide, with lava flows carving long, winding canals up to more than 3,000 miles (5,000 km) in length, longer than on any other planet.

Planet Venus Facts: A Hot, Hellish & Volcanic Planet

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

 

[alang1216]

What about the surface pressure 90 times that of Earth? And the thousands of volcanoes and lava flows? Still skeptical.

If the CO2 gets replaced by the lighter O2, the pressure will decrease. As the O2 oxidizes the metals & minerals it will become locked in a solid and the pressure will decrease further. Same goes for the sulfuric acid. Since the mass of earth and venus are similar the ultimate atmospheric pressure on venus should approximate that of earth.

There are thousands of volcanoes and lava flows on earth yet we still manage to survive.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't know. The average daytime temperatures on Venus are thought to be 800+ fahrenheit. That would bar-b-que a steer pretty quickly.

true enough but we will soon have designer bacteria that can turn CO2 into carbon and oxygen, powered by the sun. put a small number into the Venusian atmosphere and stand back

Hmmm. That would be intriguing to watch wouldn't it. All we have to do is determine that there is no sentient life on Venus that we would be interfering with and it could be a really fun experiment.

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

Actually I don't think it likely that there is another hospitable planet/moon/whatever in our solar system. I think Planet Earth is probably it--uniquely placed at the precisely beneficial distance from the sun and protected from most incoming by the larger planets out there.

That's why when I learned that warp speeds were not only scientifically obtainable but probable at some point in our future, that we would have the capability to explore outside our solar system where other planets more like Earth would likely be.

Well, I dunno - there's a lot of work going on to build an outpost of some kind on Mars, and some people think we'll have a station there:

What do we mean when we say an environment is “habitable”? When referring to exoplanets, the term “habitability” is usually equated to whether or not liquid water can exist on the planet’s surface. But that doesn’t always answer the question of whether humans can inhabit a given environment. After all, Earth’s South Pole doesn’t have liquid water on the surface. Neither does low-Earth orbit. Yet resourceful humans have been inhabiting both locations for decades.

What about Mars? Mars is on the outer boundary of our solar system’s habitable zone, and we know what looks like briny, liquid water can exist on the surface for short periods of time. But does that really make Mars habitable? From a practical standpoint, the answer depends on what technologies we bring there to create our own artificial habitable zones on the surface.

Long-term habitation on Mars will require us to master the conversion of raw Martian materials into resources we can use to survive. Fortunately, Mars has a wealth of these materials, making it arguably the most human-habitable place in the solar system, other than the Earth itself.

Is Mars habitable? With the right technologies, yes

----

Then there's Europa, one of Jupiter's moons:

NASA scientists believe that one of Jupiter's moons is the most likely place in the universe beyond the Earth that could harbour life. Europa, the sixth closest moon to the planet, is far more likely to be habitable than desert-covered Mars which has been the focus of recent US exploration, they say. It's ocean, thin shelf of ice and the presence of oxidants on Europa make it far more likely to be home to a life form than the red planet.

Read more: Jupiter's Europa moon is 'most likely to support life than the deserts of Mars', claim NASA scientists | Daily Mail Online

----

And Enceladus:

Today Earthlings came one very giant step closer to finding life elsewhere in our solar system. In the final months of its 20-year mission, the spacecraft Cassini delivered its most noteworthy revelation yet: the ocean of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn, is releasing hydrogen, an energy source for some microorganisms. In other words, that ocean is inhabitable. “Enceladus,” says Cornell University astrophysicist Jonathan Lunine, “is the place to go to look for life.”

The ocean—made of liquid water and resembling a hybrid of the Atlantic Ocean, a desert mineral lake and the fluid found near hydrothermal vents—covers the entire surface of this moon. A thick shell of ice surrounds the entire body of water, though, leaving it dark and frigid. But something happening inside that ocean is strong enough to break through those miles of ice. At the moon’s southern pole, a geyser-like plume spews water vapor, ice, salt and a mix of gases hundreds of miles into space at a force of 800 miles per hour.

Cassini spacecraft delivers biggest revelation yet: A moon of Saturn is habitable

The possibilities of course are endless. Certainly if humankind can live quite comfortably for weeks or months in a space station in orbit around the sun, we could build a structure on Mars making lengthy periods of habitation possible, most especially assuming we can acquire speeds to shorten the 150 to 300 day one-way travel period that a trip there now requires. And since Mars does have a natural gravity, we wouldn't have to compensate for weightlessness there nearly as much as we do in space.

But I don't see Mars as a place to colonize so much as a base for scientific experimentation and explorations and perhaps mining. We still need to find some Class M planets that humankind would be right at home on.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hmmm. That would be intriguing to watch wouldn't it. All we have to do is determine that there is no sentient life on Venus that we would be interfering with and it could be a really fun experiment.

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

If the bacteria could grow and reproduce exponentially they would remove the majority of the CO2 in a very short time. Once the greenhouse is under control the planet would be warmer than Mars and have plenty of oxygen derived from the CO2. Tee shirt and shorts.

Uh-huh. It might eventually be doable but I remain a bit skeptical. Consider this:

Venus is the hottest world in the solar system. Although Venus is not the planet closest to the sun, its dense atmosphere traps heat in a runaway version of the greenhouse effect that warms Earth. As a result, temperatures on Venus reach 870 degrees Fahrenheit (465 degrees Celsius), more than hot enough to melt lead. Probes that scientists have landed there have survived only a few hours before being destroyed.

Venus has a hellish atmosphere as well, consisting mainly of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid, and scientists have only detected trace amounts of water in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is heavier than that of any other planet, leading to a surface pressure 90 times that of Earth. Incredibly, however, early in Venus' history the planet may have been habitable, according to models from NASA researchers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The surface of Venus is extremely dry. During its evolution, ultraviolet rays from the sun evaporated water quickly, keeping it in a prolonged molten state. There is no liquid water on its surface today because the scorching heat created by its ozone-filled atmosphere would cause any to boil away. Roughly two-thirds of the Venusian surface is covered by flat, smooth plains that are marred by thousands of volcanoes, some which are still active today, ranging from about 0.5 to 150 miles (0.8 to 240 kilometers) wide, with lava flows carving long, winding canals up to more than 3,000 miles (5,000 km) in length, longer than on any other planet.

Planet Venus Facts: A Hot, Hellish & Volcanic Planet

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

And they began that trip in the year 2265 or 147 years from now. Which sounds about right though as fast as we are developing technologically, even though we are still in technological infancy, I think it might not take us all of that time to figure out and develop those technologies.

 

[Montrovant]

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

If the bacteria could grow and reproduce exponentially they would remove the majority of the CO2 in a very short time. Once the greenhouse is under control the planet would be warmer than Mars and have plenty of oxygen derived from the CO2. Tee shirt and shorts.

Uh-huh. It might eventually be doable but I remain a bit skeptical. Consider this:

Venus is the hottest world in the solar system. Although Venus is not the planet closest to the sun, its dense atmosphere traps heat in a runaway version of the greenhouse effect that warms Earth. As a result, temperatures on Venus reach 870 degrees Fahrenheit (465 degrees Celsius), more than hot enough to melt lead. Probes that scientists have landed there have survived only a few hours before being destroyed.

Venus has a hellish atmosphere as well, consisting mainly of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid, and scientists have only detected trace amounts of water in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is heavier than that of any other planet, leading to a surface pressure 90 times that of Earth. Incredibly, however, early in Venus' history the planet may have been habitable, according to models from NASA researchers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The surface of Venus is extremely dry. During its evolution, ultraviolet rays from the sun evaporated water quickly, keeping it in a prolonged molten state. There is no liquid water on its surface today because the scorching heat created by its ozone-filled atmosphere would cause any to boil away. Roughly two-thirds of the Venusian surface is covered by flat, smooth plains that are marred by thousands of volcanoes, some which are still active today, ranging from about 0.5 to 150 miles (0.8 to 240 kilometers) wide, with lava flows carving long, winding canals up to more than 3,000 miles (5,000 km) in length, longer than on any other planet.

Planet Venus Facts: A Hot, Hellish & Volcanic Planet

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

And they began that trip in the year 2265 or 147 years from now. Which sounds about right though as fast as we are developing technologically, even though we are still in technological infancy, I think it might not take us all of that time to figure out and develop those technologies.

We seem to have hit a bump in technological advancement when it comes to space travel.

 

[Foxfyre]

If the bacteria could grow and reproduce exponentially they would remove the majority of the CO2 in a very short time. Once the greenhouse is under control the planet would be warmer than Mars and have plenty of oxygen derived from the CO2. Tee shirt and shorts.

Uh-huh. It might eventually be doable but I remain a bit skeptical. Consider this:

Venus is the hottest world in the solar system. Although Venus is not the planet closest to the sun, its dense atmosphere traps heat in a runaway version of the greenhouse effect that warms Earth. As a result, temperatures on Venus reach 870 degrees Fahrenheit (465 degrees Celsius), more than hot enough to melt lead. Probes that scientists have landed there have survived only a few hours before being destroyed.

Venus has a hellish atmosphere as well, consisting mainly of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid, and scientists have only detected trace amounts of water in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is heavier than that of any other planet, leading to a surface pressure 90 times that of Earth. Incredibly, however, early in Venus' history the planet may have been habitable, according to models from NASA researchers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The surface of Venus is extremely dry. During its evolution, ultraviolet rays from the sun evaporated water quickly, keeping it in a prolonged molten state. There is no liquid water on its surface today because the scorching heat created by its ozone-filled atmosphere would cause any to boil away. Roughly two-thirds of the Venusian surface is covered by flat, smooth plains that are marred by thousands of volcanoes, some which are still active today, ranging from about 0.5 to 150 miles (0.8 to 240 kilometers) wide, with lava flows carving long, winding canals up to more than 3,000 miles (5,000 km) in length, longer than on any other planet.

Planet Venus Facts: A Hot, Hellish & Volcanic Planet

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

And they began that trip in the year 2265 or 147 years from now. Which sounds about right though as fast as we are developing technologically, even though we are still in technological infancy, I think it might not take us all of that time to figure out and develop those technologies.

We seem to have hit a bump in technological advancement when it comes to space travel.

That's because I think we have elected leaders without a big picture view or without a vision of what could be and they let things like the Hubble or the Space Station or the Shuttle program, etc. die so they can spend money on stuff they think more important but that almost always never is. Whatever anybody thinks about President Trump, he does have that big picture vision. And I'm pretty sure if he is able to smooth out the bumps he has encountered in his first year and gets things running smoothly and on track so that the economy and treasury is healthy again, we will see him push those programs.

 

[task0778]

If the bacteria could grow and reproduce exponentially they would remove the majority of the CO2 in a very short time. Once the greenhouse is under control the planet would be warmer than Mars and have plenty of oxygen derived from the CO2. Tee shirt and shorts.

Uh-huh. It might eventually be doable but I remain a bit skeptical. Consider this:

Venus is the hottest world in the solar system. Although Venus is not the planet closest to the sun, its dense atmosphere traps heat in a runaway version of the greenhouse effect that warms Earth. As a result, temperatures on Venus reach 870 degrees Fahrenheit (465 degrees Celsius), more than hot enough to melt lead. Probes that scientists have landed there have survived only a few hours before being destroyed.

Venus has a hellish atmosphere as well, consisting mainly of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid, and scientists have only detected trace amounts of water in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is heavier than that of any other planet, leading to a surface pressure 90 times that of Earth. Incredibly, however, early in Venus' history the planet may have been habitable, according to models from NASA researchers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The surface of Venus is extremely dry. During its evolution, ultraviolet rays from the sun evaporated water quickly, keeping it in a prolonged molten state. There is no liquid water on its surface today because the scorching heat created by its ozone-filled atmosphere would cause any to boil away. Roughly two-thirds of the Venusian surface is covered by flat, smooth plains that are marred by thousands of volcanoes, some which are still active today, ranging from about 0.5 to 150 miles (0.8 to 240 kilometers) wide, with lava flows carving long, winding canals up to more than 3,000 miles (5,000 km) in length, longer than on any other planet.

Planet Venus Facts: A Hot, Hellish & Volcanic Planet

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

And they began that trip in the year 2265 or 147 years from now. Which sounds about right though as fast as we are developing technologically, even though we are still in technological infancy, I think it might not take us all of that time to figure out and develop those technologies.

We seem to have hit a bump in technological advancement when it comes to space travel.

Oh, I dunno, have you read or heard about the SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket that blasted off last month and put a Tesla auto in orbit and a couple of satellites too? The Falcon is the biggest and most powerful rocket ever built and can launch larger payloads into space than previously possible. I do not doubt that there have been and will be other advances in space technology that aren't as publicized.

 

[Montrovant]

Uh-huh. It might eventually be doable but I remain a bit skeptical. Consider this:

Venus is the hottest world in the solar system. Although Venus is not the planet closest to the sun, its dense atmosphere traps heat in a runaway version of the greenhouse effect that warms Earth. As a result, temperatures on Venus reach 870 degrees Fahrenheit (465 degrees Celsius), more than hot enough to melt lead. Probes that scientists have landed there have survived only a few hours before being destroyed.

Venus has a hellish atmosphere as well, consisting mainly of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid, and scientists have only detected trace amounts of water in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is heavier than that of any other planet, leading to a surface pressure 90 times that of Earth. Incredibly, however, early in Venus' history the planet may have been habitable, according to models from NASA researchers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The surface of Venus is extremely dry. During its evolution, ultraviolet rays from the sun evaporated water quickly, keeping it in a prolonged molten state. There is no liquid water on its surface today because the scorching heat created by its ozone-filled atmosphere would cause any to boil away. Roughly two-thirds of the Venusian surface is covered by flat, smooth plains that are marred by thousands of volcanoes, some which are still active today, ranging from about 0.5 to 150 miles (0.8 to 240 kilometers) wide, with lava flows carving long, winding canals up to more than 3,000 miles (5,000 km) in length, longer than on any other planet.

Planet Venus Facts: A Hot, Hellish & Volcanic Planet

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

And they began that trip in the year 2265 or 147 years from now. Which sounds about right though as fast as we are developing technologically, even though we are still in technological infancy, I think it might not take us all of that time to figure out and develop those technologies.

We seem to have hit a bump in technological advancement when it comes to space travel.

Oh, I dunno, have you read or heard about the SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket that blasted off last month and put a Tesla auto in orbit and a couple of satellites too? The Falcon is the biggest and most powerful rocket ever built and can launch larger payloads into space than previously possible. I do not doubt that there have been and will be other advances in space technology that aren't as publicized.

I'm hoping that the private enterprises get things going. NASA, however, hasn't seemed to create much in the way of new space technology in decades. We were using the space shuttle program for far longer than it was supposed to be used.

I feel that the push for space travel/exploration peaked when we went to the moon, then started a decline that never really leveled off. People in the US just don't seem all that interested in space travel in general, although of course there are exceptions.

Of course, other nations may pick up some of the slack. I wouldn't be surprised to see India or China doing interesting things with space travel in the not-too-distant future, although I have no idea if those are things those societies are interested in.

If Elon Musk can get humanity doing more serious space exploration, more power to him!

 

[Foxfyre]

Very true which is why I think visiting there not a good idea. However, alang is thinking outside the box in how that hellish world could be altered with the introduction of innovative bacteria, assuming those bacteria could survive those conditions. In time it could change Venus into a much more hospitable place.

Meanwhile I hope we keep looking for other "Class M" (Star Trek) planets out there that the next generation or two might have capability to visit.

Ah yes, cue the music:

Space - the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her 5 year mission: to seek out life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

And they began that trip in the year 2265 or 147 years from now. Which sounds about right though as fast as we are developing technologically, even though we are still in technological infancy, I think it might not take us all of that time to figure out and develop those technologies.

We seem to have hit a bump in technological advancement when it comes to space travel.

Oh, I dunno, have you read or heard about the SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket that blasted off last month and put a Tesla auto in orbit and a couple of satellites too? The Falcon is the biggest and most powerful rocket ever built and can launch larger payloads into space than previously possible. I do not doubt that there have been and will be other advances in space technology that aren't as publicized.

I'm hoping that the private enterprises get things going. NASA, however, hasn't seemed to create much in the way of new space technology in decades. We were using the space shuttle program for far longer than it was supposed to be used.

I feel that the push for space travel/exploration peaked when we went to the moon, then started a decline that never really leveled off. People in the US just don't seem all that interested in space travel in general, although of course there are exceptions.

Of course, other nations may pick up some of the slack. I wouldn't be surprised to see India or China doing interesting things with space travel in the not-too-distant future, although I have no idea if those are things those societies are interested in.

If Elon Musk can get humanity doing more serious space exploration, more power to him!

The guy at the top though has a tremendous amount to do with what the agencies that serve under him do or don't accomplish for good or bad. So when you have a Bill Clinton or a George W. Bush or a Barack Obama who could care less about innovation or advancement of scientific achievement, and most especially when there is disinterest in funding it, we aren't going to see much progress.

I am all for the peaceful nations of the working together on such projects, as well as teaming up with the private sector, but I sure don't want to see America hand over their own progress for others to do either.

 

[toobfreak]

1. Our sun is a class C type star and is found to be the most common star type in the cosmos.

WRONG. The Sun is a type G4 (now called a GV) star according to the Hertzsprung-Russel classification of the Main Sequence of Stellar Evolution. The colour-class (or colour-temp is read across the bottom (OBAFGKM)

What Type of Star is Our Sun?

There isn't even a "Class C" star I ever heard of. And the most common stars out there (in sheer number) are called Brown Dwarfs. The Sun isn't a brown dwarf.

2. These star types tend to be the most stable and longest lived.

A star like the Sun is long lived. That is mainly a function of their mass / rate of hydrogen burning. Small cooler stars like Brown Dwarfs last much longer.

3. They last upwards of 6 billion years.

The Sun is already over 4.6 billion years old and has several more billion years before it eventually begins to swell into a red giant and eventual planetary nebula. Just why do you post about things you know nothing about?

4. They have multiple planets, with at least one in the "Goldilocks Zone", where liquid water is present on the surface, thus the right distance from the home star.

PURE RUBBISH. Every star is a unique case and of the hundreds (thousands?) of extra-solar planets detected thus far, NONE of them have been similar to our solar system, and only a couple have had planets which might even remotely be in a state where earth-type life might be able to live.

5. And on carbon based planets, this is the condition for life, as we know it.

"Carbon-based planet?" No planet is carbon based; they are based on rock, silica, iron, etc. They may have carbon in them and carbon is but a trace element in the Earth. If you want a carbon-based "planet," look to a white dwarf star (like Sirius) which is essentially a collapsed dead star about the size of the Earth, essentially solid diamond (pure carbon). But good luck walking on it. I think you were meaning to say carbon-based LIFE, which is the only kind of life we know of for sure.

Further, like the movie, "Start Trek: First Contact", we are going to leave our home place. We will do so when we have developed something that is SoL+ or, a WARP drive if you will. From that, we are free.

All you need to do then is violate the physical laws of the universe.

And, aside from the darker psychopaths that post on all these myriad of boards to the contrary, NASA and all other space agencies around the planet is pushing the technology to "see" out there what is there. And it reasons well, if we are not alone, others out there are doing the same, looking back.

It all depends on what you call life. If you mean biota like singled celled chemoautotrophs, then yes, the chances are good such life exists in one or more other places in this solar system. If you mean intelligent, sentient, advanced lifeforms like us capable of developing civilizations and technology, the chances are VERY THIN of us ever finding it. Even with faster than light travel, the number of places suitable for such life to develop X the length of time such civilizations last X the age of the universe make it a highly statistically unlikely chance of there being many other civilizations out there at the same time as us. But are they out there, somewhere? I would say yes.

 

[alang1216]

true enough but we will soon have designer bacteria that can turn CO2 into carbon and oxygen, powered by the sun. put a small number into the Venusian atmosphere and stand back

Hmmm. That would be intriguing to watch wouldn't it. All we have to do is determine that there is no sentient life on Venus that we would be interfering with and it could be a really fun experiment.

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

Actually I don't think it likely that there is another hospitable planet/moon/whatever in our solar system. I think Planet Earth is probably it--uniquely placed at the precisely beneficial distance from the sun and protected from most incoming by the larger planets out there.

That's why when I learned that warp speeds were not only scientifically obtainable but probable at some point in our future, that we would have the capability to explore outside our solar system where other planets more like Earth would likely be.

Well, I dunno - there's a lot of work going on to build an outpost of some kind on Mars, and some people think we'll have a station there:

What do we mean when we say an environment is “habitable”? When referring to exoplanets, the term “habitability” is usually equated to whether or not liquid water can exist on the planet’s surface. But that doesn’t always answer the question of whether humans can inhabit a given environment. After all, Earth’s South Pole doesn’t have liquid water on the surface. Neither does low-Earth orbit. Yet resourceful humans have been inhabiting both locations for decades.

What about Mars? Mars is on the outer boundary of our solar system’s habitable zone, and we know what looks like briny, liquid water can exist on the surface for short periods of time. But does that really make Mars habitable? From a practical standpoint, the answer depends on what technologies we bring there to create our own artificial habitable zones on the surface.

Long-term habitation on Mars will require us to master the conversion of raw Martian materials into resources we can use to survive. Fortunately, Mars has a wealth of these materials, making it arguably the most human-habitable place in the solar system, other than the Earth itself.

Is Mars habitable? With the right technologies, yes

----

Then there's Europa, one of Jupiter's moons:

NASA scientists believe that one of Jupiter's moons is the most likely place in the universe beyond the Earth that could harbour life. Europa, the sixth closest moon to the planet, is far more likely to be habitable than desert-covered Mars which has been the focus of recent US exploration, they say. It's ocean, thin shelf of ice and the presence of oxidants on Europa make it far more likely to be home to a life form than the red planet.

Read more: Jupiter's Europa moon is 'most likely to support life than the deserts of Mars', claim NASA scientists | Daily Mail Online

----

And Enceladus:

Today Earthlings came one very giant step closer to finding life elsewhere in our solar system. In the final months of its 20-year mission, the spacecraft Cassini delivered its most noteworthy revelation yet: the ocean of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn, is releasing hydrogen, an energy source for some microorganisms. In other words, that ocean is inhabitable. “Enceladus,” says Cornell University astrophysicist Jonathan Lunine, “is the place to go to look for life.”

The ocean—made of liquid water and resembling a hybrid of the Atlantic Ocean, a desert mineral lake and the fluid found near hydrothermal vents—covers the entire surface of this moon. A thick shell of ice surrounds the entire body of water, though, leaving it dark and frigid. But something happening inside that ocean is strong enough to break through those miles of ice. At the moon’s southern pole, a geyser-like plume spews water vapor, ice, salt and a mix of gases hundreds of miles into space at a force of 800 miles per hour.

Cassini spacecraft delivers biggest revelation yet: A moon of Saturn is habitable

The possibilities of course are endless. Certainly if humankind can live quite comfortably for weeks or months in a space station in orbit around the sun, we could build a structure on Mars making lengthy periods of habitation possible, most especially assuming we can acquire speeds to shorten the 150 to 300 day one-way travel period that a trip there now requires. And since Mars does have a natural gravity, we wouldn't have to compensate for weightlessness there nearly as much as we do in space.

But I don't see Mars as a place to colonize so much as a base for scientific experimentation and explorations and perhaps mining. We still need to find some Class M planets that humankind would be right at home on.

I think you're right, Mars has little to offer since we'd never walk its surface with a space suit. If we're going to do that we might as well stay in space and use asteroids for raw materials and not fight Mars gravity well.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hmmm. That would be intriguing to watch wouldn't it. All we have to do is determine that there is no sentient life on Venus that we would be interfering with and it could be a really fun experiment.

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

Actually I don't think it likely that there is another hospitable planet/moon/whatever in our solar system. I think Planet Earth is probably it--uniquely placed at the precisely beneficial distance from the sun and protected from most incoming by the larger planets out there.

That's why when I learned that warp speeds were not only scientifically obtainable but probable at some point in our future, that we would have the capability to explore outside our solar system where other planets more like Earth would likely be.

Well, I dunno - there's a lot of work going on to build an outpost of some kind on Mars, and some people think we'll have a station there:

What do we mean when we say an environment is “habitable”? When referring to exoplanets, the term “habitability” is usually equated to whether or not liquid water can exist on the planet’s surface. But that doesn’t always answer the question of whether humans can inhabit a given environment. After all, Earth’s South Pole doesn’t have liquid water on the surface. Neither does low-Earth orbit. Yet resourceful humans have been inhabiting both locations for decades.

What about Mars? Mars is on the outer boundary of our solar system’s habitable zone, and we know what looks like briny, liquid water can exist on the surface for short periods of time. But does that really make Mars habitable? From a practical standpoint, the answer depends on what technologies we bring there to create our own artificial habitable zones on the surface.

Long-term habitation on Mars will require us to master the conversion of raw Martian materials into resources we can use to survive. Fortunately, Mars has a wealth of these materials, making it arguably the most human-habitable place in the solar system, other than the Earth itself.

Is Mars habitable? With the right technologies, yes

----

Then there's Europa, one of Jupiter's moons:

NASA scientists believe that one of Jupiter's moons is the most likely place in the universe beyond the Earth that could harbour life. Europa, the sixth closest moon to the planet, is far more likely to be habitable than desert-covered Mars which has been the focus of recent US exploration, they say. It's ocean, thin shelf of ice and the presence of oxidants on Europa make it far more likely to be home to a life form than the red planet.

Read more: Jupiter's Europa moon is 'most likely to support life than the deserts of Mars', claim NASA scientists | Daily Mail Online

----

And Enceladus:

Today Earthlings came one very giant step closer to finding life elsewhere in our solar system. In the final months of its 20-year mission, the spacecraft Cassini delivered its most noteworthy revelation yet: the ocean of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn, is releasing hydrogen, an energy source for some microorganisms. In other words, that ocean is inhabitable. “Enceladus,” says Cornell University astrophysicist Jonathan Lunine, “is the place to go to look for life.”

The ocean—made of liquid water and resembling a hybrid of the Atlantic Ocean, a desert mineral lake and the fluid found near hydrothermal vents—covers the entire surface of this moon. A thick shell of ice surrounds the entire body of water, though, leaving it dark and frigid. But something happening inside that ocean is strong enough to break through those miles of ice. At the moon’s southern pole, a geyser-like plume spews water vapor, ice, salt and a mix of gases hundreds of miles into space at a force of 800 miles per hour.

Cassini spacecraft delivers biggest revelation yet: A moon of Saturn is habitable

The possibilities of course are endless. Certainly if humankind can live quite comfortably for weeks or months in a space station in orbit around the sun, we could build a structure on Mars making lengthy periods of habitation possible, most especially assuming we can acquire speeds to shorten the 150 to 300 day one-way travel period that a trip there now requires. And since Mars does have a natural gravity, we wouldn't have to compensate for weightlessness there nearly as much as we do in space.

But I don't see Mars as a place to colonize so much as a base for scientific experimentation and explorations and perhaps mining. We still need to find some Class M planets that humankind would be right at home on.

I think you're right, Mars has little to offer since we'd never walk its surface with a space suit. If we're going to do that we might as well stay in space and use asteroids for raw materials and not fight Mars gravity well.

I think you misunderstood what I said though. I could see purpose in a permanent scientific research base on Mars, possibilities if Mars has critical elements to mine, etc. I just don't see it as a permanent habitat for humankind.

 

[Montrovant]

Yeah but it could be a really long movie. Took us 3 billion years or so to evolve I think. I really don't think Venus would be a suitable place for us to colonize. Mars or a few of those moons around Jupiter or Saturn that might have water might be better choices.

Actually I don't think it likely that there is another hospitable planet/moon/whatever in our solar system. I think Planet Earth is probably it--uniquely placed at the precisely beneficial distance from the sun and protected from most incoming by the larger planets out there.

That's why when I learned that warp speeds were not only scientifically obtainable but probable at some point in our future, that we would have the capability to explore outside our solar system where other planets more like Earth would likely be.

Well, I dunno - there's a lot of work going on to build an outpost of some kind on Mars, and some people think we'll have a station there:

What do we mean when we say an environment is “habitable”? When referring to exoplanets, the term “habitability” is usually equated to whether or not liquid water can exist on the planet’s surface. But that doesn’t always answer the question of whether humans can inhabit a given environment. After all, Earth’s South Pole doesn’t have liquid water on the surface. Neither does low-Earth orbit. Yet resourceful humans have been inhabiting both locations for decades.

What about Mars? Mars is on the outer boundary of our solar system’s habitable zone, and we know what looks like briny, liquid water can exist on the surface for short periods of time. But does that really make Mars habitable? From a practical standpoint, the answer depends on what technologies we bring there to create our own artificial habitable zones on the surface.

Long-term habitation on Mars will require us to master the conversion of raw Martian materials into resources we can use to survive. Fortunately, Mars has a wealth of these materials, making it arguably the most human-habitable place in the solar system, other than the Earth itself.

Is Mars habitable? With the right technologies, yes

----

Then there's Europa, one of Jupiter's moons:

NASA scientists believe that one of Jupiter's moons is the most likely place in the universe beyond the Earth that could harbour life. Europa, the sixth closest moon to the planet, is far more likely to be habitable than desert-covered Mars which has been the focus of recent US exploration, they say. It's ocean, thin shelf of ice and the presence of oxidants on Europa make it far more likely to be home to a life form than the red planet.

Read more: Jupiter's Europa moon is 'most likely to support life than the deserts of Mars', claim NASA scientists | Daily Mail Online

----

And Enceladus:

Today Earthlings came one very giant step closer to finding life elsewhere in our solar system. In the final months of its 20-year mission, the spacecraft Cassini delivered its most noteworthy revelation yet: the ocean of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn, is releasing hydrogen, an energy source for some microorganisms. In other words, that ocean is inhabitable. “Enceladus,” says Cornell University astrophysicist Jonathan Lunine, “is the place to go to look for life.”

The ocean—made of liquid water and resembling a hybrid of the Atlantic Ocean, a desert mineral lake and the fluid found near hydrothermal vents—covers the entire surface of this moon. A thick shell of ice surrounds the entire body of water, though, leaving it dark and frigid. But something happening inside that ocean is strong enough to break through those miles of ice. At the moon’s southern pole, a geyser-like plume spews water vapor, ice, salt and a mix of gases hundreds of miles into space at a force of 800 miles per hour.

Cassini spacecraft delivers biggest revelation yet: A moon of Saturn is habitable

The possibilities of course are endless. Certainly if humankind can live quite comfortably for weeks or months in a space station in orbit around the sun, we could build a structure on Mars making lengthy periods of habitation possible, most especially assuming we can acquire speeds to shorten the 150 to 300 day one-way travel period that a trip there now requires. And since Mars does have a natural gravity, we wouldn't have to compensate for weightlessness there nearly as much as we do in space.

But I don't see Mars as a place to colonize so much as a base for scientific experimentation and explorations and perhaps mining. We still need to find some Class M planets that humankind would be right at home on.

I think you're right, Mars has little to offer since we'd never walk its surface with a space suit. If we're going to do that we might as well stay in space and use asteroids for raw materials and not fight Mars gravity well.

I think you misunderstood what I said though. I could see purpose in a permanent scientific research base on Mars, possibilities if Mars has critical elements to mine, etc. I just don't see it as a permanent habitat for humankind.

It will probably depend on a few different things. Can Mars be terraformed to be human-friendly? Will other bodies in our solar system (like the moons of Jupiter, for instance) prove to be more easily adapted to human habitation? How long will it be before humanity is capable of interstellar travel in a reasonable time frame? Will population continue to increase, or will there come a point (perhaps due to technology) at which population starts to decrease, making the desire to settle elsewhere less pressing?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

That is my vision. Obviously Planet Earth cannot sustain an unlimited population of anything let alone resource gobbling humans. So as we humans learn to live in peace and to value and preserve life, the concept of finding new worlds to explore and populate is very appealing. And I would like to think possible.

NA$A

For millennia, Earth's human population has expanded without running into permanent limits; there's no reason it can't continue that way. For example, if Alaska had the population density of New Jersey, where the people are not packed together like sardines, Alaska would hold 700 million people. The only thing preventing that is advancement in cold-weather technology, which we should put our money in instead of childish Trekkie escapism.

Limited resources are a bigger issue in population growth than anything like cold weather technology.

That's for sure. All land area is not equal when it comes to its ability to sustain life. In Kentucky that has well watered pasture and plenty of it year round, the land can sustain about 1 cow per acre with no supplemental feeding. On the high desert of New Mexico, the ratio is generally about 12 cows per section or 1 cow for every 60 acres with no supplemental feeding. In the enormous desert area of ANWR in Alaska there are virtually no resources--little surface water, the land is not arable, little or no wildlife. Not a place anybody would want to live. There is probably some oil to be tapped there though.

But if we crowd several billion people into the most hospital places on Earth, all those places will soon be buildings and pavement and that will further deplete the resources we have. So, I am all in favor of us keeping working on technology for space travel and finding places to move to when we outgrow our wonderful planet. And considering how quickly we are developing technology now, I won't be at all surprised if that is possible within the next 100 years.

How many cows can live on Mars?

None. But visiting Mars would add much to our data base of information as well as expand our technology to make longer, more adventurous space travel more feasible and more safe. There are some who say why waste time and resources in such a venture that likely won't benefit anybody here and now. And I say what if all human species had so little curiosity about what was beyond the horizon they could see? The idea of new possibilities, new adventures, new exploration is exciting to me. I always wanted to live in the 19th Century when that was happening on a large scale. And I wish I could live in the 22nd Century when I expect all that to be happening again.

Terraform Terra Firma


Your depressed escapism is in no way similar to the exploration of our own planet, which we still have barely scratched the surface of. We have lost our way, so we wander into fantasies.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

NA$A

For millennia, Earth's human population has expanded without running into permanent limits; there's no reason it can't continue that way. For example, if Alaska had the population density of New Jersey, where the people are not packed together like sardines, Alaska would hold 700 million people. The only thing preventing that is advancement in cold-weather technology, which we should put our money in instead of childish Trekkie escapism.

Limited resources are a bigger issue in population growth than anything like cold weather technology.

That's for sure. All land area is not equal when it comes to its ability to sustain life. In Kentucky that has well watered pasture and plenty of it year round, the land can sustain about 1 cow per acre with no supplemental feeding. On the high desert of New Mexico, the ratio is generally about 12 cows per section or 1 cow for every 60 acres with no supplemental feeding. In the enormous desert area of ANWR in Alaska there are virtually no resources--little surface water, the land is not arable, little or no wildlife. Not a place anybody would want to live. There is probably some oil to be tapped there though.

But if we crowd several billion people into the most hospital places on Earth, all those places will soon be buildings and pavement and that will further deplete the resources we have. So, I am all in favor of us keeping working on technology for space travel and finding places to move to when we outgrow our wonderful planet. And considering how quickly we are developing technology now, I won't be at all surprised if that is possible within the next 100 years.

How many cows can live on Mars?

None. But visiting Mars would add much to our data base of information as well as expand our technology to make longer, more adventurous space travel more feasible and more safe. There are some who say why waste time and resources in such a venture that likely won't benefit anybody here and now. And I say what if all human species had so little curiosity about what was beyond the horizon they could see? The idea of new possibilities, new adventures, new exploration is exciting to me. I always wanted to live in the 19th Century when that was happening on a large scale. And I wish I could live in the 22nd Century when I expect all that to be happening again.

And who knows what might be found on Mars to actually benefit humanity now? That's part of the excitement of exploration.

Excitement doesn't produce anything but premature ejaculation.

 

[alang1216]

[Will population continue to increase, or will there come a point (perhaps due to technology) at which population starts to decrease, making the desire to settle elsewhere less pressing?

I think we'll slowly explore but the driving force behind colonization will be religion. Like the Puritans and Mormons, there will be a cult that wants to be free to practice without constraints.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

How many cows can live on Mars?

Do you mean today or in the future?

I've always thought Venus would be a better terraforming target.

In contrast daytime temperatures on Mars are pretty moderate and we could cope with the minus 100 temperatures at night--far more hospitable than the temperatures on our own moon where there is 400 degrees between light and shadow.

The Earth Shatnered Upon

You're programmed to take it for granted that Antarctica, which has a land mass as big as the contiguous 48 states, has forever reached the peak of its development. Yet NA$A's Martian fantasy would require the same kind of technology that would let 300 million people live in Antarctica, at a fraction of the cost.

 

[alang1216]

The Earth Shatnered Upon

You're programmed to take it for granted that Antarctica, which has a land mass as big as the contiguous 48 states, has forever reached the peak of its development. Yet NA$A's Martian fantasy would require the same kind of technology that would let 300 million people live in Antarctica, at a fraction of the cost.

Antarctica will probably never be self sufficient unless it contains nuclear fuel sources and that is the independence a cult would require. It doesn't matter anyway, religions don't have practical goals.

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually I don't think it likely that there is another hospitable planet/moon/whatever in our solar system. I think Planet Earth is probably it--uniquely placed at the precisely beneficial distance from the sun and protected from most incoming by the larger planets out there.

That's why when I learned that warp speeds were not only scientifically obtainable but probable at some point in our future, that we would have the capability to explore outside our solar system where other planets more like Earth would likely be.

Well, I dunno - there's a lot of work going on to build an outpost of some kind on Mars, and some people think we'll have a station there:

What do we mean when we say an environment is “habitable”? When referring to exoplanets, the term “habitability” is usually equated to whether or not liquid water can exist on the planet’s surface. But that doesn’t always answer the question of whether humans can inhabit a given environment. After all, Earth’s South Pole doesn’t have liquid water on the surface. Neither does low-Earth orbit. Yet resourceful humans have been inhabiting both locations for decades.

What about Mars? Mars is on the outer boundary of our solar system’s habitable zone, and we know what looks like briny, liquid water can exist on the surface for short periods of time. But does that really make Mars habitable? From a practical standpoint, the answer depends on what technologies we bring there to create our own artificial habitable zones on the surface.

Long-term habitation on Mars will require us to master the conversion of raw Martian materials into resources we can use to survive. Fortunately, Mars has a wealth of these materials, making it arguably the most human-habitable place in the solar system, other than the Earth itself.

Is Mars habitable? With the right technologies, yes

----

Then there's Europa, one of Jupiter's moons:

NASA scientists believe that one of Jupiter's moons is the most likely place in the universe beyond the Earth that could harbour life. Europa, the sixth closest moon to the planet, is far more likely to be habitable than desert-covered Mars which has been the focus of recent US exploration, they say. It's ocean, thin shelf of ice and the presence of oxidants on Europa make it far more likely to be home to a life form than the red planet.

Read more: Jupiter's Europa moon is 'most likely to support life than the deserts of Mars', claim NASA scientists | Daily Mail Online

----

And Enceladus:

Today Earthlings came one very giant step closer to finding life elsewhere in our solar system. In the final months of its 20-year mission, the spacecraft Cassini delivered its most noteworthy revelation yet: the ocean of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn, is releasing hydrogen, an energy source for some microorganisms. In other words, that ocean is inhabitable. “Enceladus,” says Cornell University astrophysicist Jonathan Lunine, “is the place to go to look for life.”

The ocean—made of liquid water and resembling a hybrid of the Atlantic Ocean, a desert mineral lake and the fluid found near hydrothermal vents—covers the entire surface of this moon. A thick shell of ice surrounds the entire body of water, though, leaving it dark and frigid. But something happening inside that ocean is strong enough to break through those miles of ice. At the moon’s southern pole, a geyser-like plume spews water vapor, ice, salt and a mix of gases hundreds of miles into space at a force of 800 miles per hour.

Cassini spacecraft delivers biggest revelation yet: A moon of Saturn is habitable

The possibilities of course are endless. Certainly if humankind can live quite comfortably for weeks or months in a space station in orbit around the sun, we could build a structure on Mars making lengthy periods of habitation possible, most especially assuming we can acquire speeds to shorten the 150 to 300 day one-way travel period that a trip there now requires. And since Mars does have a natural gravity, we wouldn't have to compensate for weightlessness there nearly as much as we do in space.

But I don't see Mars as a place to colonize so much as a base for scientific experimentation and explorations and perhaps mining. We still need to find some Class M planets that humankind would be right at home on.

I think you're right, Mars has little to offer since we'd never walk its surface with a space suit. If we're going to do that we might as well stay in space and use asteroids for raw materials and not fight Mars gravity well.

I think you misunderstood what I said though. I could see purpose in a permanent scientific research base on Mars, possibilities if Mars has critical elements to mine, etc. I just don't see it as a permanent habitat for humankind.

It will probably depend on a few different things. Can Mars be terraformed to be human-friendly? Will other bodies in our solar system (like the moons of Jupiter, for instance) prove to be more easily adapted to human habitation? How long will it be before humanity is capable of interstellar travel in a reasonable time frame? Will population continue to increase, or will there come a point (perhaps due to technology) at which population starts to decrease, making the desire to settle elsewhere less pressing?

No Mars cannot be transformed into being human friendly any more than humans are capable of changing the timeless characteristics of our own planet. But unless there are unknown properties there that would make it harmful or deadly to humans present there--unlikely--I can see it as suitable for a base for scientific research and possibly mining. Certainly establishing a protective cocoon there would be no more difficult than building and maintaining a large scientific laboratory in space which has already been done.

As for the distance problem, now that we know how warp speeds can be accomplished, we only need to figure out how to develop the technology to do it. At half pulse--half warp speed--it would take about 10 minutes to travel between Earth and Mars while it now takes us three days to reach the moon with our current technological abilities. I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't figured it how to do that within the next 25 to 50 years, probably a bit longer to build the prototype that would actually accomplish it.

And I do envision space vehicles that won't need hugely expensive enormous rockets and projects to launch them into space but will be able to come and go from Earth as easily as a helicopter now travels from city to city.

Once we can do that, traveling to and from the space station will be no more of a project than my getting to the grocery store now in heavy Albuquerque traffic. But for now just imagine the incredible amount of know how it took to put the ISS out there and getting to and from it to even build it. It is such a tiny speck out there in an unimaginable vastness and it is moving at 17,500 miles per hour making figuratively chasing it down and actually docking with it a major scientific marvel. And I think it is but an early baby step what we will be able to do to achieve even greater more wonderful things.

Too often folks tend to think the science we know is all that we will ever know. I think we know only a teensy fraction of all the science there is to yet learn, to know.

 

[task0778]

The Earth Shatnered Upon

You're programmed to take it for granted that Antarctica, which has a land mass as big as the contiguous 48 states, has forever reached the peak of its development. Yet NA$A's Martian fantasy would require the same kind of technology that would let 300 million people live in Antarctica, at a fraction of the cost.

Antarctica will probably never be self sufficient unless it contains nuclear fuel sources and that is the independence a cult would require. It doesn't matter anyway, religions don't have practical goals.

Depends on what you call practical. You said it yourself in #376, they want to be free to practice their religion free from restraints. Sounds practical to me, nor would I classify any and all religions as a "cult". Which is an attempt on your part to demagogue all of them, not cool.

Bottom line in all this, as a species we ARE going to eventually build colonies on other worlds, moons, whatever. The time frame is up for debate, there's no telling cuz we got too many factors to resolve before it becomes possible or feasible. But it IS going to happen, and right now the odds on favorite for numero uno place is Mars. Maybe our own moon as a staging area.