CDZ Are utopias Even Possible? I say yes. Here is how....

[Damaged Eagle]

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Utopia's are impossible, except perhaps for a brief period of time, there are always others that want what someone else has.

*****SMILE*****

If our technology has improved/advanced to the point that if you want a thing you can just 3D print it your self or make something that someone else wants and has what you want so you can trade them, then why go the risky route of stealing it or even being covetous?

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What makes you think it's that simple?

*****SMILE*****

I dont get your point.

Can you be more direct?

Do others have to change their way of life to conform to yours?

You speak of mere things will bring about your utopia...

What happens when someone has to have more or all?

*****SMILE*****

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Incredibly brilliant minds have contemplated Utopia. Have you read their works and conclusions?
Plato's the Republic
Hobbes' Leviathan
Thomas More Utopia

Why did they all conclude Utopia was impossible? Plato turned all his students to the issue and debate a Utopian society. They came to the conclusion that a Utopian society would be so highly regulated that the government would eventually control every possible aspect of each life. Quite interesting.

 

[Mello711]

Adam and Eve blew it for us

 

[Mello711]

I think a utopia is unachievable because human nature won’t allow it. I believe there will always be that one bad apple that ruins it for everyone else. Greed, pride and envy will ruin all great things

 

[LoneLaugher]

Are there wars and hungry children in your utopia?

Nobody wants to answer this simple question?

 

[Leo123]

As long as humans are capable of evil, Utopia can never exist.

 

[sakinago]

So far Utopian schemes are 0 success for 478 tries at a perfect society.

Why Utopian Communities Fail - Areo

Once again we see a resurgence of interest in intentional communities and in Utopian experiments in living communally. Even Time Magazine is advocating such ways of living as a solution…View Post

areomagazine.com

The following are things I have diagnosed from first-hand observation that go wrong when we try to turn Utopia into a real location. As my ventures involved other intentional communities as well, rather than explain all of their contexts, and to protect anonymity, I refer throughout to several of the communities as “Community X.” ​

Utopia Is a Dangerous Ideal: We Should Aim for âProtopiaâ

Everybody knows that nobody’s perfect. So why do we still strive for perfection when there could be a better path?

getpocket.com

What, then, should replace the idea of utopia? One answer can be found in another neologism – protopia – incremental progress in steps toward improvement, not perfection. As the futurist Kevin Kelly describes his coinage:​

​

Protopia is a state that is better today than yesterday, although it might be only a little better. Protopia is much much harder to visualise. Because a protopia contains as many new problems as new benefits, this complex interaction of working and broken is very hard to predict. ​

In my book The Moral Arc (2015), I showed how protopian progress best describes the monumental moral achievements of the past several centuries: the attenuation of war, the abolishment of slavery, the end of torture and the death penalty, universal suffrage, liberal democracy, civil rights and liberties, same-sex marriage and animal rights. These are all examples of protopian progress in the sense that they happened one small step at a time.​

​

A protopian future is not only practical, it is realisable.​

Now lets take Protopia, add many multiple Super AI enabling programs that can assist people in finding what they need and how to get/make it, and we have a Protopia that is progressing toward Utopia, Add in Space astyeroid mining giving us unlimited resources, and I think we have Utopia for all practical purposes.

Why not?

If you kill enough of the right people, and continue to do so, yes utopia can exist.

 

[initforme]

Cut CEO pay by a factor of 50 and give it to the actual producers. There's a start. CEOs are lazy and inept.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Cut CEO pay by a factor of 50 and give it to the actual producers. There's a start. CEOs are lazy and inept.

Conservatives tend to equate CEO's with entrepreneurs but they are usually the furthest thing from a creative risk taking person like the latter.

CEO's are most often ass kissing narcissistic sociopaths that feed off people's souls.

 

[JimBowie1958]

If you kill enough of the right people, and continue to do so, yes utopia can exist.

Nah, those people come back later produced by social conditions that I think we hardly have a basic grasp of.

If we have a Technological Utopia, where everyone can have whatever they want and need produced from plentiful resources and nanomanufacture, where is the material drive for dominance or power?

Give these sociopaths virtual worlds to rule and they will probably live there 24/7.

Problem solved.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I think a utopia is unachievable because human nature won’t allow it. I believe there will always be that one bad apple that ruins it for everyone else. Greed, pride and envy will ruin all great things

As long as humans are capable of evil, Utopia can never exist.

The problem of evil is difficult.

But perhaps prison colonies undersea can help with that.

 

[sakinago]

If you kill enough of the right people, and continue to do so, yes utopia can exist.

Nah, those people come back later produced by social conditions that I think we hardly have a basic grasp of.

If we have a Technological Utopia, where everyone can have whatever they want and need produced from plentiful resources and nanomanufacture, where is the material drive for dominance or power?

Give these sociopaths virtual worlds to rule and they will probably live there 24/7.

Problem solved.

You just made my point, utopias need to be “exclusionary” to certain types of people. It all depends on what’s your idea of utopia, as well as having a homogenous group who all want the same thing, usually scaring everyone else to go along with their utopia. Problem is the range of humans and their individual needs and desires is so wide and diverse. It’s not necessarily the case that dictators take over and just start killing, they always have tons of help from millions of their own people. That’s because for those people, not just the dictator, the idea of utopia is worth killing for. In your case you’re not advocating killing them, but you’re basically saying anyone whose not on board just put them in a virtual prison.

Do you think a guy like Micheal Jordan would be satisfied living in a world where everyone’s equal and gets everything they desire off of a whim. Hell no. He thrives off of winning and being the best. Now, he’s obviously at the far end of the spectrum on that, but all humans need struggle, need competition, need success in varying degrees. As we’re seeing with the quarantine, many people are going stir crazy stuck at home not working. The Jordan’s of the world aren’t going to be satisfied in a world where they can’t struggle to the top, because there is no top. So what do you do with those people? Tell them to live out their dreams in VR?

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

There can never be a utopia on a national scale. Not possible.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Everyone should just smoke marijuana and do ludes.

Problem solved.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[JimBowie1958]

You just made my point, utopias need to be “exclusionary” to certain types of people. It all depends on what’s your idea of utopia, as well as having a homogenous group who all want the same thing, usually scaring everyone else to go along with their utopia. Problem is the range of humans and their individual needs and desires is so wide and diverse. It’s not necessarily the case that dictators take over and just start killing, they always have tons of help from millions of their own people. That’s because for those people, not just the dictator, the idea of utopia is worth killing for. In your case you’re not advocating killing them, but you’re basically saying anyone whose not on board just put them in a virtual prison.

Well, I do know that *I* am talking about jailing violent criminals forever in places almost impossible to escape from. Everyone else that has behavior problems gets put in a counseling/training school that would be mandatory and have varying levels of security based on behavior. But it would be worst cases in prisons, not someone who bounced three checks as has happened in some states resulting in life sentences under three strikes laws.

Do you think a guy like Micheal Jordan would be satisfied living in a world where everyone’s equal and gets everything they desire off of a whim. Hell no. He thrives off of winning and being the best. Now, he’s obviously at the far end of the spectrum on that, but all humans need struggle, need competition, need success in varying degrees. As we’re seeing with the quarantine, many people are going stir crazy stuck at home not working. The Jordan’s of the world aren’t going to be satisfied in a world where they can’t struggle to the top, because there is no top. So what do you do with those people? Tell them to live out their dreams in VR?

Competitive people can find competition in sports, virtual games/worlds and winning the interwebs, lol.

Some might be happy just getting drunk and listening to ACDC the rest of their lives, who knows?

 

[SourKat]

They live in a collective co-owned space with co-owned buildings. materials and resources, work and take meals collectively, and prosper considerably beyond their neighbors who live as individuals. In their entire history they've experienced a total of one murder and two suicides, have never fought in any war or worn any country's uniform, and have been doing this successfully for five hundred years. Is that a utopia? It sure works for them

So "diversity" ISNT a strength. Thank you.

I was getting ready to make that point as well. Seems she's forgetting that not all people hold the same "values."

 

[Vastator]

So far Utopian schemes are 0 success for 478 tries at a perfect society.

Why Utopian Communities Fail - Areo

Once again we see a resurgence of interest in intentional communities and in Utopian experiments in living communally. Even Time Magazine is advocating such ways of living as a solution…View Post

areomagazine.com

The following are things I have diagnosed from first-hand observation that go wrong when we try to turn Utopia into a real location. As my ventures involved other intentional communities as well, rather than explain all of their contexts, and to protect anonymity, I refer throughout to several of the communities as “Community X.” ​

Utopia Is a Dangerous Ideal: We Should Aim for âProtopiaâ

Everybody knows that nobody’s perfect. So why do we still strive for perfection when there could be a better path?

getpocket.com

What, then, should replace the idea of utopia? One answer can be found in another neologism – protopia – incremental progress in steps toward improvement, not perfection. As the futurist Kevin Kelly describes his coinage:​

​

Protopia is a state that is better today than yesterday, although it might be only a little better. Protopia is much much harder to visualise. Because a protopia contains as many new problems as new benefits, this complex interaction of working and broken is very hard to predict. ​

In my book The Moral Arc (2015), I showed how protopian progress best describes the monumental moral achievements of the past several centuries: the attenuation of war, the abolishment of slavery, the end of torture and the death penalty, universal suffrage, liberal democracy, civil rights and liberties, same-sex marriage and animal rights. These are all examples of protopian progress in the sense that they happened one small step at a time.​

​

A protopian future is not only practical, it is realisable.​

Now lets take Protopia, add many multiple Super AI enabling programs that can assist people in finding what they need and how to get/make it, and we have a Protopia that is progressing toward Utopia, Add in Space astyeroid mining giving us unlimited resources, and I think we have Utopia for all practical purposes.

Why not?

Why not?....Tremendously centralized power in the hands of The State...The kind of power that attracts to it people of the lowest moral character, like a moth to a flame.

That's why.

Why the Worst Humans Are Able to Rise to Power

History’s most notorious dictators did not rise to power randomly. And in The Road to Serfdom, Hayek explains why the most despicable people always end up with political power and why, to paraphrase Lord Acton, absolute power always corrupts absolutely.

fee.org

"Minimal government" won't stay that way....We're living the proof right now.

Hate to be the one to break this to summa y'all but there's way more to life than government and politics.

Unfortunately there are very few to none; aspects of life that have not been contaminated by the cancer of politics, and government...

 

[JimBowie1958]

You just made my point, utopias need to be “exclusionary” to certain types of people. It all depends on what’s your idea of utopia, as well as having a homogenous group who all want the same thing, usually scaring everyone else to go along with their utopia.

We can have people live their own specific type of utopias in their own community, as long as it does not interfere with other people having THEIR own utopias alongside them.

Those that cannot allow for other groups to have their own Utopian goals will have to be dealt with according to their misbehavior.

 

[sakinago]

You just made my point, utopias need to be “exclusionary” to certain types of people. It all depends on what’s your idea of utopia, as well as having a homogenous group who all want the same thing, usually scaring everyone else to go along with their utopia.

We can have people live their own specific type of utopias in their own community, as long as it does not interfere with other people having THEIR own utopias alongside them.

Those that cannot allow for other groups to have their own Utopian goals will have to be dealt with according to their misbehavior.

Sounds like you just described tribes.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Those that cannot allow for other groups to have their own Utopian goals will have to be dealt with according to their misbehavior.

Sounds like you just described tribes.

Meh, no, tribes that have no borders and have a dynamic voluntary membership are not really tribes. They are more akin to online gaming Factions.