Are the Palestinians a real people?

[Coyote]

Why do you need to deny Palestinians their identity in order to support Jewish rights?

Its NOT their identity to speak Arabic, wear keffiya and hijab, eat hummus and shwarma, celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son?

It's not.

Seems to me ForeverYoung436 was accepting Arab Palestinian identity, rather than denying it.

You consider the words "like in 21 other countries" as support of Palestinian identity? OK...

I’m pretty sure you missed my point and my sarcasm here.

Arab Palestinian identity IS Arab.

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

 

[MJB12741]

The indigenous Palestinians & their offspring that are Jews are indeed a real people. Long before the development of Islam & Muslims in the land who now claim to be Palestinians.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

So tired of the ramblings of professional victims.

Do you mean the Palestinians or the Jews?

Both

 

[Coyote]

Like Cherokee are Cherokee but also Native American.

Except Cherokee is a very distinct culture.

How distinct is distinct enough? And..what is the cut off...when has enough time passed for a group to be considered legitimate. The Palestinians have been in the process of creating a distinct identity for some time now, based on their heritage and more strongly defined by their conflict with the Jews, Nakbah, and a life defined as a stateless people. It has created a distinct identity that is not that of other Arabs. They have a right to it. What right do others have to delegitimize them.

I will go back to what I said earlier and have said many times: why is it necessary to deny or marginalize the identity of Palestinians in order to promote the rights of the Jewish people? And the reverse is also true: why is it necessary to deny the rights of the Jewish people in order to support the rights of the Palestinian people, because that routinely happens as well.

It would be good if we could start from a mutual recognition of two peoples, with rights to the same area, and work out from there, recognizing that the expression of those rights (but not the recognition) is also tied to the ability to share peaceably the same territory. And I recognize that is the framework you come from Shusha, but I do not see it in the others.

 

[Rigby5]

They speak Arabic, like in 21 other countries. They wear the keffiya and hijab, like in 21 other countries. They eat hummus and shwarma, like in 21 other countries. They celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son, like in 21 other countries.


In Israel, they speak Hebrew. It's the only country with this national language. In Israel, they wear the kippa and kova temble. The , like in no other country. In Israel, they eat gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, like in no other country. In Israel, the national holidays are Yom Kippur, Passover and Hanukkah. These are no other country's national holidays.

Why does Tinmore want to destroy the only Jewish state in the world to set up a 22nd jihadist state? Is this what the world really needs?

The native language for most in Israel is not Hebrew, but Yiddish, which is Germanic and not from the Mideast.
The kippa and kova temple are not Jewish, but implementations of Old Testament rules that also include the Arab Turban. There are no gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, native to the Mideast, and these are from the cultures of Poland, Russia, Germany, etc.
No country should ever have religious holidays mandated by government.
There is no country with all its people from a single religion.

There should be no Jewish state because there should never be any religious state.
Trying to make one is purely evil.

The word "jihadist" mean pious, and does not mean Muslim.

The reality is the Palestinian Arabs are the 12 million indigenous natives, going back over 8,000 years, while the Israelis Jew are 6 million mostly European immigrants.
The Palestinian Arabs are the Chaldeans, Amorites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Urites, Canaanites, etc., who historically owned this land for centuries.
It is criminal to take their homes by force, as Israel has done.

 

[Rigby5]

The indigenous Palestinians & their offspring that are Jews are indeed a real people. Long before the development of Islam & Muslims in the land who now claim to be Palestinians.

The majority of the people in the Land of Canaan have never been Jewish.
When the Hebrew tribes first invaded around 1000 BC, they were not even close to the majority, but less than 10% of the population.
When the Romans appointed Jews to administer Palestine for them, they picked the Jews because they were the smallest minority, and therefore the least threat.
In 1900, when a census was conducted, there were less then 5% Jews in Palestine, which includes what is now Israel and Palestine.
Most Israelis are recent immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants, and almost none have ever bought and paid for any land.
Instead they are given land that has been taken by force from Palestinians Arabs.

 

[Rigby5]

So tired of the ramblings of professional victims.

Do you mean the Palestinians or the Jews?

Both

The Jews in Israel are not the victims but the perpetrators.
The Palestinians are not victims by choice or design, but due to the economic blockade by the Israelis.

 

[Rigby5]

Like Cherokee are Cherokee but also Native American.

Except Cherokee is a very distinct culture.

How distinct is distinct enough? And..what is the cut off...when has enough time passed for a group to be considered legitimate. The Palestinians have been in the process of creating a distinct identity for some time now, based on their heritage and more strongly defined by their conflict with the Jews, Nakbah, and a life defined as a stateless people. It has created a distinct identity that is not that of other Arabs. They have a right to it. What right do others have to delegitimize them.

I will go back to what I said earlier and have said many times: why is it necessary to deny or marginalize the identity of Palestinians in order to promote the rights of the Jewish people? And the reverse is also true: why is it necessary to deny the rights of the Jewish people in order to support the rights of the Palestinian people, because that routinely happens as well.

It would be good if we could start from a mutual recognition of two peoples, with rights to the same area, and work out from there, recognizing that the expression of those rights (but not the recognition) is also tied to the ability to share peaceably the same territory. And I recognize that is the framework you come from Shusha, but I do not see it in the others.

Very simply, culture or religion has nothing at all to do with it.
The native indigenous Palestinians simply are those who were there before the massive immigration after 1920 or so.
That includes many ancient Arab cultures, including the Canaanites, Akkadians, Urites, Amorites, Phoenicians, Philistines, Chaldeans, Nabatians, etc. It also includes some native Hebrew.

But none of the recent European immigrants or their descendants ever bought or paid for any of the land they possess, so they are illegal intruders who are guilty of war crimes and must be punished.

Nationality is not the question or problem.
Home and farm ownership is.
And all the Israelis Jews are knowingly in possession of stolen property, and are criminals.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Its NOT their identity to speak Arabic, wear keffiya and hijab, eat hummus and shwarma, celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son?

It's not.

Seems to me ForeverYoung436 was accepting Arab Palestinian identity, rather than denying it.

You consider the words "like in 21 other countries" as support of Palestinian identity? OK...

I’m pretty sure you missed my point and my sarcasm here.

Arab Palestinian identity IS Arab.

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

 

[Coyote]

L,.

Like Cherokee are Cherokee but also Native American.

Except Cherokee is a very distinct culture.

How distinct is distinct enough? And..what is the cut off...when has enough time passed for a group to be considered legitimate. The Palestinians have been in the process of creating a distinct identity for some time now, based on their heritage and more strongly defined by their conflict with the Jews, Nakbah, and a life defined as a stateless people. It has created a distinct identity that is not that of other Arabs. They have a right to it. What right do others have to delegitimize them.

I will go back to what I said earlier and have said many times: why is it necessary to deny or marginalize the identity of Palestinians in order to promote the rights of the Jewish people? And the reverse is also true: why is it necessary to deny the rights of the Jewish people in order to support the rights of the Palestinian people, because that routinely happens as well.

It would be good if we could start from a mutual recognition of two peoples, with rights to the same area, and work out from there, recognizing that the expression of those rights (but not the recognition) is also tied to the ability to share peaceably the same territory. And I recognize that is the framework you come from Shusha, but I do not see it in the others.

Very simply, culture or religion has nothing at all to do with it.
The native indigenous Palestinians simply are those who were there before the massive immigration after 1920 or so.
That includes many ancient Arab cultures, including the Canaanites, Akkadians, Urites, Amorites, Phoenicians, Philistines, Chaldeans, Nabatians, etc. It also includes some native Hebrew.

But none of the recent European immigrants or their descendants ever bought or paid for any of the land they possess, so they are illegal intruders who are guilty of war crimes and must be punished.

Nationality is not the question or problem.
Home and farm ownership is.
And all the Israelis Jews are knowingly in possession of stolen property, and are criminals.

Woah! That is absolutely not true!

 

[Coyote]

It's not.
You consider the words "like in 21 other countries" as support of Palestinian identity? OK...

I’m pretty sure you missed my point and my sarcasm here.

Arab Palestinian identity IS Arab.

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

 

[harmonica]

the Pals are like the sub-Saharan blacks and the US ghetto blacks

 

[Coyote]

They speak Arabic, like in 21 other countries. They wear the keffiya and hijab, like in 21 other countries. They eat hummus and shwarma, like in 21 other countries. They celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son, like in 21 other countries.


In Israel, they speak Hebrew. It's the only country with this national language. In Israel, they wear the kippa and kova temble. The , like in no other country. In Israel, they eat gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, like in no other country. In Israel, the national holidays are Yom Kippur, Passover and Hanukkah. These are no other country's national holidays.

Why does Tinmore want to destroy the only Jewish state in the world to set up a 22nd jihadist state? Is this what the world really needs?

The native language for most in Israel is not Hebrew, but Yiddish, which is Germanic and not from the Mideast.
The kippa and kova temple are not Jewish, but implementations of Old Testament rules that also include the Arab Turban. There are no gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, native to the Mideast, and these are from the cultures of Poland, Russia, Germany, etc.
No country should ever have religious holidays mandated by government.
There is no country with all its people from a single religion.

There should be no Jewish state because there should never be any religious state.
Trying to make one is purely evil.

The word "jihadist" mean pious, and does not mean Muslim.

The reality is the Palestinian Arabs are the 12 million indigenous natives, going back over 8,000 years, while the Israelis Jew are 6 million mostly European immigrants.
The Palestinian Arabs are the Chaldeans, Amorites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Urites, Canaanites, etc., who historically owned this land for centuries.
It is criminal to take their homes by force, as Israel has done.

A lot of this doesn’t make sense. In fact, it is bizarre.

Hebrew is an ancient language, that is archaeologically proven. It is a language that has been preserved throughout Jewish history, though not as a living language until relatively modern times.

Hebrew is spoken by all Israelis. Yiddish is a language developed by one subsect of European Jews. How do you define native language? The language you were born into and grew up with? Well for most Israeli’s it is Hebrew.

The Old Testement was created by the Jews. It is THEIR story...therefore the kippa etc is Jewish. While I don’t agree with religion mixing with government, each country does have the right to do what it wishes with holidays and many recognize religious holy days. As to no other country with all it’s people of one religion...I hate to disillusion you but yes...I believe there are (Saudi Arabia) and Israel, with a significant Muslim minority, along with Christians and other minorities, is not one of them.

This might be the time to do some research...just a suggestion.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I’m pretty sure you missed my point and my sarcasm here.

Arab Palestinian identity IS Arab.

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

"Stateless" is a foreign political opinion enforced at the point of a gun.

 

[Hollie]

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

"Stateless" is a foreign political opinion enforced at the point of a gun.

Nonsense.

 

[Coyote]

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

"Stateless" is a foreign political opinion enforced at the point of a gun.

No. It is a human rights tragedy.

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship. Because those in Syria had no papers, they couldn’t even flee ISIS, no country would give them shelter. It is shameful.

 

[MJB12741]

They speak Arabic, like in 21 other countries. They wear the keffiya and hijab, like in 21 other countries. They eat hummus and shwarma, like in 21 other countries. They celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son, like in 21 other countries.


In Israel, they speak Hebrew. It's the only country with this national language. In Israel, they wear the kippa and kova temble. The , like in no other country. In Israel, they eat gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, like in no other country. In Israel, the national holidays are Yom Kippur, Passover and Hanukkah. These are no other country's national holidays.

Why does Tinmore want to destroy the only Jewish state in the world to set up a 22nd jihadist state? Is this what the world really needs?

The native language for most in Israel is not Hebrew, but Yiddish, which is Germanic and not from the Mideast.
The kippa and kova temple are not Jewish, but implementations of Old Testament rules that also include the Arab Turban. There are no gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, native to the Mideast, and these are from the cultures of Poland, Russia, Germany, etc.
No country should ever have religious holidays mandated by government.
There is no country with all its people from a single religion.

There should be no Jewish state because there should never be any religious state.
Trying to make one is purely evil.

The word "jihadist" mean pious, and does not mean Muslim.

The reality is the Palestinian Arabs are the 12 million indigenous natives, going back over 8,000 years, while the Israelis Jew are 6 million mostly European immigrants.
The Palestinian Arabs are the Chaldeans, Amorites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Urites, Canaanites, etc., who historically owned this land for centuries.
It is criminal to take their homes by force, as Israel has done.

Oh now I get it. Those "Palestinian Arabs are the Chaldeans, Amorites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Urites, Canaanites, et." who have titles to the land they stole. Right?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

"Stateless" is a foreign political opinion enforced at the point of a gun.

No. It is a human rights tragedy.

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship. Because those in Syria had no papers, they couldn’t even flee ISIS, no country would give them shelter. It is shameful.

That's because allowing them to assimilate would be a betrayal of the "cause" of Palestinians nationalism. The myth that these are refugees is essential to the case against Israel; the more these fake refugees suffer, the better it is for the "cause".

 

[Coyote]

They, as a native population, have the exact saying rights of place as the Jewish population.

Now I would agree that national self determination is tied to the ability live peaceably with their neighbors and create a sustainable state.

But they have their own identity, and it is not up to you, or any one else to decide whether it is “legitimate”, it is up to them.

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

"Stateless" is a foreign political opinion enforced at the point of a gun.

No. It is a human rights tragedy.

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship. Because those in Syria had no papers, they couldn’t even flee ISIS, no country would give them shelter. It is shameful.

That's because allowing them to assimilate would be a betrayal of the "cause" of Palestinians nationalism. The myth that these are refugees is essential to the case against Israel; the more these fake refugees suffer, the better it is for the "cause".

They are not fake refugees.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And besides, Palestinians are citizens of Palestine. No other people can make that claim.

I hate to say this, but, citizenship is conferred by nations and there is no nation. They are stateless, which is a tragedy.

"Stateless" is a foreign political opinion enforced at the point of a gun.

No. It is a human rights tragedy.

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship. Because those in Syria had no papers, they couldn’t even flee ISIS, no country would give them shelter. It is shameful.

That's because allowing them to assimilate would be a betrayal of the "cause" of Palestinians nationalism. The myth that these are refugees is essential to the case against Israel; the more these fake refugees suffer, the better it is for the "cause".

They are not fake refugees.

Of course they are fake. No where else in the world would the grandchildren of an itinerant Egyptian farm worker who lived in what became Israel for a couple of years before fleeing from the war be called a Palestinian refugee. If Israel were not a Jewish state, the notion would have been laughed out of the UN.