Are the Palestinians a real people?

[Coyote]

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee
camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship.​

If the US Message Board existed in 1985 I wonder if you would be demanding Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique to give citizenship to millions of black citizens of Transkei, Ciskei and Kwazulu instead of demanding the south african leaders in Pretoria to dismantle the pathetic farce of the black "republics" and simply give south african citizenship to the "citizens" of the Bantustans.

Were they residing those countries in refugee camps?

In the case of the Palestinians, refugee camps is a propaganda term. They live just as other poor Arabs in those countries live.

Tell that to the Palestinian refugees in Syria who couldn’t flee with the Syrians.

Arab Countries Are Forcing Palestinian Exiles Back Into Syria

There appear to be no limits to the sufferings other Arabs are willing to inflict on the so called Palestinians in their countries, but that in no way makes the grandchildren of those who left Israel in 1948 refugees.

What exactly are they?

 

[Coyote]

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee
camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship.​

If the US Message Board existed in 1985 I wonder if you would be demanding Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique to give citizenship to millions of black citizens of Transkei, Ciskei and Kwazulu instead of demanding the south african leaders in Pretoria to dismantle the pathetic farce of the black "republics" and simply give south african citizenship to the "citizens" of the Bantustans.

Were they residing those countries in refugee camps?

In the case of the Palestinians, refugee camps is a propaganda term. They live just as other poor Arabs in those countries live.

They do NOT live as other poor Arabs. They lack citizenship and with that, the fundamental rights, including the right to work, that comes with citizenship. What rights they get depend what country their camp is in. No citizenship...no papers. That means when ISIS and civil war are tearing a country apart, you can’t flee. What country will give you admittance with out papersor nationality? That is what the Syrian Palestinian refugees discovered. And hundreds starved to death because they were caught between a border and ISIS.

Maybe people ought to think a moment before it is all propaganda. I suggest you join our friend Rigby in education,

My point, of course, was that living in a so called refugee camp is no different from living in other poor areas of these countries. The fact that other Arabs treat them with such cruelty and contempt does not make them refugees from Israel.

Did you totally miss what I said? Unlike Arab citizens of those countries, Palestinians have no rights what so ever...not even a right to legally work in some of those countries. So no. They do not live like Citizens who happen to live in poor areas of the country.

Since they fled the area that is Israel, yes, it DOES make them refugees from Israel. That is the only area they can be refugees from. By definition.

The Rohinga fled Myanmar. They are refugees from Myanmar.

Kakuma, in Kenya, houses people who fled conflict in Somalia and South Sudan. They are refugees from Somalia and South Sudan respectively.

Zaatari in Jordan houses people who fled Syria. Those are refugees from Syria.

And so on.

It isn’t about laying blame, it is about facts.

 

[Coyote]

No. It is a human rights tragedy.

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship. Because those in Syria had no papers, they couldn’t even flee ISIS, no country would give them shelter. It is shameful.

That's because allowing them to assimilate would be a betrayal of the "cause" of Palestinians nationalism. The myth that these are refugees is essential to the case against Israel; the more these fake refugees suffer, the better it is for the "cause".

They are not fake refugees.

Of course they are fake. No where else in the world would the grandchildren of an itinerant Egyptian farm worker who lived in what became Israel for a couple of years before fleeing from the war be called a Palestinian refugee. If Israel were not a Jewish state, the notion would have been laughed out of the UN.

Most had long standing ties in Palestine. And even for those who were not, so what? Does that alter the fact they were driven off their land and are stateless?

Very few of the so called Palestinians who are alive today have long standing ties to what is now Israel and very few were driven off. Their suffering today is very much caused by people like you who cherish it as a weapon to use against Israel. They are not exactly stateless. They are all citizens of the Palestinian Authority which operates in most important ways as a state.

Actually...according to historical records, most were driven off either from fear of conflict (as is often the case)or deliberate actions by the Jewish militias during the war.

Their suffering today is caused by a number of different factors none of which include me.

The refugees in camps outside of Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of the PA. Most of those in Jordan were given Jordanian citizenship. Those in Lebanon were finally given the same right to work as other foreigners in 2010 after appalling conditions were revealed. A number have been given citizenship. In Syria, no citizenship or right to work. In Saudi Arabia the same. In Iraq the same I think. So yes, many are exactly stateless.

It doesn’t matter how many generations removed from Israel they are, until they are permanently settled somewhere they are still refugees. Which leads to an interesting question. There are many multigenerational refugee camps from long standing conflicts...why is it that ONLY the Palestinians get labeled “not refugees”?

None of that means there is any right of return. I don’t believe in any collective right of return. The Arab states need to do the right thing and fully absorb the refugees outside the West Bank and Gaza. The Arab league set the rule prohibiting Arab states from granting citizenship to the Palestinians, leading to atrocious conditions. They need to do the right thing.

 

[Shusha]

Conventions against statelessness require that if a person would otherwise be stateless, they acquire the nationality of the place of their birth. The descendants of refugees are not stateless.

 

[Coyote]

Conventions against statelessness require that if a person would otherwise be stateless, they acquire the nationality of the place of their birth. The descendants of refugees are not stateless.

That would depend on the laws of the state however would it it not? If the state does not recognize jus soli, those born there of non citizen parents would not be citizens. Many people are stateless as a result.

 

[Coyote]

Mayukwayuka refugee camp in Zambia was established in 1966 to hold refugees fleeing from Angola’s civil war. Are they fake refugees?

 

[Shusha]

Conventions against statelessness require that if a person would otherwise be stateless, they acquire the nationality of the place of their birth. The descendants of refugees are not stateless.

That would depend on the laws of the state however would it it not? If the state does not recognize jus soli, those born there of non citizen parents would not be citizens. Many people are stateless as a result.

Rather it would be if the state is a party to the relevant conventions.

 

[MisterBeale]

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee
camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship.​

If the US Message Board existed in 1985 I wonder if you would be demanding Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique to give citizenship to millions of black citizens of Transkei, Ciskei and Kwazulu instead of demanding the south african leaders in Pretoria to dismantle the pathetic farce of the black "republics" and simply give south african citizenship to the "citizens" of the Bantustans.

Were they residing those countries in refugee camps?

Excellent point.

I am so tired of this global problem.

The Israeli's HOLD THE POWER over there, thus, it is up to them to shit or get off the pot.

Either give the Arabs in their nation an equal say in how that land is ruled, or separate off an equal portion of land and resources and let them have their own nation.

The simple fact is, they are fucking genocidal fascists that don't like either option, and would prefer a slow motion genocide where the entire Arab population inside Israel either flees or dies. They don't want their precious cultural dynamic to change.

. . . and that, as they say in the U.S. here, is just plane bigoted and evil.

The U.S. treats it's natives the same way in every respect.


If it weren't for the fact that the Arab birth rate is far outstripping the Israeli birthrate, the problem would just go away. . . which is what I am sure the ruling classes were hoping.

This is how we dealt with our native American problem, assimilation and a decline in birth rate. The folks that originally started Planned Parenthood were part of the eugenics movement, they went in there and involuntarily sterilized tens of thousands of them before anyone found out.

It's no longer much of a problem. . . . .

 

[Moi621]

Palestinian = Jordanian.
Not Syrian nor Egyptian.
Jordanian.

Blame the Romans for creating a region called
Palestine.


Moi

 

[toomuchtime_]

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee
camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship.​

If the US Message Board existed in 1985 I wonder if you would be demanding Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique to give citizenship to millions of black citizens of Transkei, Ciskei and Kwazulu instead of demanding the south african leaders in Pretoria to dismantle the pathetic farce of the black "republics" and simply give south african citizenship to the "citizens" of the Bantustans.

Were they residing those countries in refugee camps?

In the case of the Palestinians, refugee camps is a propaganda term. They live just as other poor Arabs in those countries live.

Tell that to the Palestinian refugees in Syria who couldn’t flee with the Syrians.

Arab Countries Are Forcing Palestinian Exiles Back Into Syria

There appear to be no limits to the sufferings other Arabs are willing to inflict on the so called Palestinians in their countries, but that in no way makes the grandchildren of those who left Israel in 1948 refugees.

What exactly are they?

They are citizens of the Palestinian Authority living in other countries. Calling them refugees is just a way of continuing the conflict by raising impossible hopes. Not every problem has a good solution.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It is a tragedy that the countries wherein they live in refugee
camps refused to take them in and give them citizenship.​

If the US Message Board existed in 1985 I wonder if you would be demanding Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique to give citizenship to millions of black citizens of Transkei, Ciskei and Kwazulu instead of demanding the south african leaders in Pretoria to dismantle the pathetic farce of the black "republics" and simply give south african citizenship to the "citizens" of the Bantustans.

Were they residing those countries in refugee camps?

In the case of the Palestinians, refugee camps is a propaganda term. They live just as other poor Arabs in those countries live.

They do NOT live as other poor Arabs. They lack citizenship and with that, the fundamental rights, including the right to work, that comes with citizenship. What rights they get depend what country their camp is in. No citizenship...no papers. That means when ISIS and civil war are tearing a country apart, you can’t flee. What country will give you admittance with out papersor nationality? That is what the Syrian Palestinian refugees discovered. And hundreds starved to death because they were caught between a border and ISIS.

Maybe people ought to think a moment before it is all propaganda. I suggest you join our friend Rigby in education,

My point, of course, was that living in a so called refugee camp is no different from living in other poor areas of these countries. The fact that other Arabs treat them with such cruelty and contempt does not make them refugees from Israel.

Did you totally miss what I said? Unlike Arab citizens of those countries, Palestinians have no rights what so ever...not even a right to legally work in some of those countries. So no. They do not live like Citizens who happen to live in poor areas of the country.

Since they fled the area that is Israel, yes, it DOES make them refugees from Israel. That is the only area they can be refugees from. By definition.

The Rohinga fled Myanmar. They are refugees from Myanmar.

Kakuma, in Kenya, houses people who fled conflict in Somalia and South Sudan. They are refugees from Somalia and South Sudan respectively.

Zaatari in Jordan houses people who fled Syria. Those are refugees from Syria.

And so on.

It isn’t about laying blame, it is about facts.

No, the people who fled are refugees, but their descendants are not.

 

[admonit]

Why do you need to deny Palestinians their identity in order to support Jewish rights?

Its NOT their identity to speak Arabic, wear keffiya and hijab, eat hummus and shwarma, celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son?

It's not.

Seems to me ForeverYoung436 was accepting Arab Palestinian identity, rather than denying it.

You consider the words "like in 21 other countries" as support of Palestinian identity? OK...

I’m pretty sure you missed my point and my sarcasm here.

Arab Palestinian identity IS Arab.

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

So, Israel should wait until "Palestinians" become so kind to stop murdering Jews, and after that reward them with their state, hoping that they don't lie as they did when signing the Oslo agreement?

 

[admonit]

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

The right to self-identification is not a "special right". It is a human right applicable to ALL peoples.

Pure demagoguery. "Palestinians" are not "a people" and they don't respect basic human rights.

The Arab Palestinians do have a unique identity. That identity is Arab

You again repeat this nonsense. Again sarcasm?

and was developed in the past 100 years as a national identity, largely as an opposing force to Jewish reclamation of their homeland.

They developed nothing but hate of Jews, which also is not unique in the Arab world.
I also suppose that you don't know what "national identity" means:
"a sense of a nation as a cohesive whole, as represented by distinctive traditions, culture, and language."

What the Arab Palestinians do NOT have is a heritage or culture which stretches backwards in time beyond the Islamic invasion and colonization.

Irrelevant. Either they have unique identity or not. They have not.

So, are you the one to prove Coyote right by saying that Arab Palestinians shouldn't have a nation because ... Arabs? If so, then you are no better than Tinmore who insists that Jews can't have a nation because ... Jews.

I'm not here to prove or disprove nonsense posted by anti-Israel trolls.
I wonder how readily you equate me with an insane troll and label me a racist. The only problem is that, as many Israelis, I have a good immunity against such pathetic accusations.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That's because allowing them to assimilate would be a betrayal of the "cause" of Palestinians nationalism. The myth that these are refugees is essential to the case against Israel; the more these fake refugees suffer, the better it is for the "cause".

They are not fake refugees.

Of course they are fake. No where else in the world would the grandchildren of an itinerant Egyptian farm worker who lived in what became Israel for a couple of years before fleeing from the war be called a Palestinian refugee. If Israel were not a Jewish state, the notion would have been laughed out of the UN.

Most had long standing ties in Palestine. And even for those who were not, so what? Does that alter the fact they were driven off their land and are stateless?

Very few of the so called Palestinians who are alive today have long standing ties to what is now Israel and very few were driven off. Their suffering today is very much caused by people like you who cherish it as a weapon to use against Israel. They are not exactly stateless. They are all citizens of the Palestinian Authority which operates in most important ways as a state.

Actually...according to historical records, most were driven off either from fear of conflict (as is often the case)or deliberate actions by the Jewish militias during the war.

Their suffering today is caused by a number of different factors none of which include me.

The refugees in camps outside of Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of the PA. Most of those in Jordan were given Jordanian citizenship. Those in Lebanon were finally given the same right to work as other foreigners in 2010 after appalling conditions were revealed. A number have been given citizenship. In Syria, no citizenship or right to work. In Saudi Arabia the same. In Iraq the same I think. So yes, many are exactly stateless.

It doesn’t matter how many generations removed from Israel they are, until they are permanently settled somewhere they are still refugees. Which leads to an interesting question. There are many multigenerational refugee camps from long standing conflicts...why is it that ONLY the Palestinians get labeled “not refugees”?

None of that means there is any right of return. I don’t believe in any collective right of return. The Arab states need to do the right thing and fully absorb the refugees outside the West Bank and Gaza. The Arab league set the rule prohibiting Arab states from granting citizenship to the Palestinians, leading to atrocious conditions. They need to do the right thing.

Nowhere else in the world are the descendants of refugees also considered refugees. All wars produce refugees, but nowhere else in the world is the status of refugee inherited by future generations. The fact that other Arabs treat the so called Palestinians with cruelty and contempt does nothing to extend the status of refugee to their offspring.

Under Oslo, all so called Palestinians other than those who are Israeli citizens are considered citizens of the PA regardless where they are presently living. Calling the neighborhoods where they live refugee camps evokes images of temporary shelters, but these neighborhoods are not at all temporary and look exactly like other poor neighborhoods in the countries they live in: the term, refugee camp, is a propaganda term intended to blame Israel for the cruel treatment the Syrian and other Arab governments inflict on the Palestinians. Calling the descendants of the refugees refugees only encourage the Arab nations to continue to mistreat them and use them as pawns in their hostility toward Israel, when in fact, all the sufferings the Palestinians have gone through are the direct result of actions of the Arab nations to in their quest to defeat Israel.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Its NOT their identity to speak Arabic, wear keffiya and hijab, eat hummus and shwarma, celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son?

It's not.

Seems to me ForeverYoung436 was accepting Arab Palestinian identity, rather than denying it.

You consider the words "like in 21 other countries" as support of Palestinian identity? OK...

I’m pretty sure you missed my point and my sarcasm here.

Arab Palestinian identity IS Arab.

OK
So, Palestinian Arabs have no special identity? But you insist that they have special rights, even national rights.

Although you asked this of Shusha, I'll give my own answer until she gives hers. They have no special identity, but they happen to live in the Land, unfortunately. So if they agree to share it, I'd be willing to let them have their own national rights. If they want to take over all of it, then not.

So, Israel should wait until "Palestinians" become so kind to stop murdering Jews, and after that reward them with their state, hoping that they don't lie as they did when signing the Oslo agreement?

Clearly Foreveryoung's solution is impractical. You don't make peace with a people but with their political leadership and since there is no political entity among the so called Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, there can be no negotiated peace agreement and no Palestinian state.

 

[Mindful]

Spencer his formidable erudition and smooth keyboard to the topic of the Palestinian assault on Israel”.

“Spencer brings his formidable erudition and smooth keyboard to the knotty topic of the Palestinian assault on Israel. Deftly separating fact from fiction, he persuasively establishes the justice of Zionism and the barbarism of its opponents. Everyone should read this one-volume synthesis to under- stand the most complex conflict of our time.” — DANIEL PIPES, Middle East Forum.

“Spencer brings his formidable erudition and smooth keyboard to the topic of the Palestinian assault on Israel”

 

[P F Tinmore]

They are not fake refugees.

Of course they are fake. No where else in the world would the grandchildren of an itinerant Egyptian farm worker who lived in what became Israel for a couple of years before fleeing from the war be called a Palestinian refugee. If Israel were not a Jewish state, the notion would have been laughed out of the UN.

Most had long standing ties in Palestine. And even for those who were not, so what? Does that alter the fact they were driven off their land and are stateless?

Very few of the so called Palestinians who are alive today have long standing ties to what is now Israel and very few were driven off. Their suffering today is very much caused by people like you who cherish it as a weapon to use against Israel. They are not exactly stateless. They are all citizens of the Palestinian Authority which operates in most important ways as a state.

Actually...according to historical records, most were driven off either from fear of conflict (as is often the case)or deliberate actions by the Jewish militias during the war.

Their suffering today is caused by a number of different factors none of which include me.

The refugees in camps outside of Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of the PA. Most of those in Jordan were given Jordanian citizenship. Those in Lebanon were finally given the same right to work as other foreigners in 2010 after appalling conditions were revealed. A number have been given citizenship. In Syria, no citizenship or right to work. In Saudi Arabia the same. In Iraq the same I think. So yes, many are exactly stateless.

It doesn’t matter how many generations removed from Israel they are, until they are permanently settled somewhere they are still refugees. Which leads to an interesting question. There are many multigenerational refugee camps from long standing conflicts...why is it that ONLY the Palestinians get labeled “not refugees”?

None of that means there is any right of return. I don’t believe in any collective right of return. The Arab states need to do the right thing and fully absorb the refugees outside the West Bank and Gaza. The Arab league set the rule prohibiting Arab states from granting citizenship to the Palestinians, leading to atrocious conditions. They need to do the right thing.

Nowhere else in the world are the descendants of refugees also considered refugees. All wars produce refugees, but nowhere else in the world is the status of refugee inherited by future generations. The fact that other Arabs treat the so called Palestinians with cruelty and contempt does nothing to extend the status of refugee to their offspring.

Under Oslo, all so called Palestinians other than those who are Israeli citizens are considered citizens of the PA regardless where they are presently living. Calling the neighborhoods where they live refugee camps evokes images of temporary shelters, but these neighborhoods are not at all temporary and look exactly like other poor neighborhoods in the countries they live in: the term, refugee camp, is a propaganda term intended to blame Israel for the cruel treatment the Syrian and other Arab governments inflict on the Palestinians. Calling the descendants of the refugees refugees only encourage the Arab nations to continue to mistreat them and use them as pawns in their hostility toward Israel, when in fact, all the sufferings the Palestinians have gone through are the direct result of actions of the Arab nations to in their quest to defeat Israel.

Israel has always ducked the responsibility of the refugees it has created.

 

[Hollie]

Of course they are fake. No where else in the world would the grandchildren of an itinerant Egyptian farm worker who lived in what became Israel for a couple of years before fleeing from the war be called a Palestinian refugee. If Israel were not a Jewish state, the notion would have been laughed out of the UN.

Most had long standing ties in Palestine. And even for those who were not, so what? Does that alter the fact they were driven off their land and are stateless?

Very few of the so called Palestinians who are alive today have long standing ties to what is now Israel and very few were driven off. Their suffering today is very much caused by people like you who cherish it as a weapon to use against Israel. They are not exactly stateless. They are all citizens of the Palestinian Authority which operates in most important ways as a state.

Actually...according to historical records, most were driven off either from fear of conflict (as is often the case)or deliberate actions by the Jewish militias during the war.

Their suffering today is caused by a number of different factors none of which include me.

The refugees in camps outside of Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of the PA. Most of those in Jordan were given Jordanian citizenship. Those in Lebanon were finally given the same right to work as other foreigners in 2010 after appalling conditions were revealed. A number have been given citizenship. In Syria, no citizenship or right to work. In Saudi Arabia the same. In Iraq the same I think. So yes, many are exactly stateless.

It doesn’t matter how many generations removed from Israel they are, until they are permanently settled somewhere they are still refugees. Which leads to an interesting question. There are many multigenerational refugee camps from long standing conflicts...why is it that ONLY the Palestinians get labeled “not refugees”?

None of that means there is any right of return. I don’t believe in any collective right of return. The Arab states need to do the right thing and fully absorb the refugees outside the West Bank and Gaza. The Arab league set the rule prohibiting Arab states from granting citizenship to the Palestinians, leading to atrocious conditions. They need to do the right thing.

Nowhere else in the world are the descendants of refugees also considered refugees. All wars produce refugees, but nowhere else in the world is the status of refugee inherited by future generations. The fact that other Arabs treat the so called Palestinians with cruelty and contempt does nothing to extend the status of refugee to their offspring.

Under Oslo, all so called Palestinians other than those who are Israeli citizens are considered citizens of the PA regardless where they are presently living. Calling the neighborhoods where they live refugee camps evokes images of temporary shelters, but these neighborhoods are not at all temporary and look exactly like other poor neighborhoods in the countries they live in: the term, refugee camp, is a propaganda term intended to blame Israel for the cruel treatment the Syrian and other Arab governments inflict on the Palestinians. Calling the descendants of the refugees refugees only encourage the Arab nations to continue to mistreat them and use them as pawns in their hostility toward Israel, when in fact, all the sufferings the Palestinians have gone through are the direct result of actions of the Arab nations to in their quest to defeat Israel.

Israel has always ducked the responsibility of the refugees it has created.

The Islamics starting a war in 1948 created the so-called “refugees”.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most had long standing ties in Palestine. And even for those who were not, so what? Does that alter the fact they were driven off their land and are stateless?

Very few of the so called Palestinians who are alive today have long standing ties to what is now Israel and very few were driven off. Their suffering today is very much caused by people like you who cherish it as a weapon to use against Israel. They are not exactly stateless. They are all citizens of the Palestinian Authority which operates in most important ways as a state.

Actually...according to historical records, most were driven off either from fear of conflict (as is often the case)or deliberate actions by the Jewish militias during the war.

Their suffering today is caused by a number of different factors none of which include me.

The refugees in camps outside of Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of the PA. Most of those in Jordan were given Jordanian citizenship. Those in Lebanon were finally given the same right to work as other foreigners in 2010 after appalling conditions were revealed. A number have been given citizenship. In Syria, no citizenship or right to work. In Saudi Arabia the same. In Iraq the same I think. So yes, many are exactly stateless.

It doesn’t matter how many generations removed from Israel they are, until they are permanently settled somewhere they are still refugees. Which leads to an interesting question. There are many multigenerational refugee camps from long standing conflicts...why is it that ONLY the Palestinians get labeled “not refugees”?

None of that means there is any right of return. I don’t believe in any collective right of return. The Arab states need to do the right thing and fully absorb the refugees outside the West Bank and Gaza. The Arab league set the rule prohibiting Arab states from granting citizenship to the Palestinians, leading to atrocious conditions. They need to do the right thing.

Nowhere else in the world are the descendants of refugees also considered refugees. All wars produce refugees, but nowhere else in the world is the status of refugee inherited by future generations. The fact that other Arabs treat the so called Palestinians with cruelty and contempt does nothing to extend the status of refugee to their offspring.

Under Oslo, all so called Palestinians other than those who are Israeli citizens are considered citizens of the PA regardless where they are presently living. Calling the neighborhoods where they live refugee camps evokes images of temporary shelters, but these neighborhoods are not at all temporary and look exactly like other poor neighborhoods in the countries they live in: the term, refugee camp, is a propaganda term intended to blame Israel for the cruel treatment the Syrian and other Arab governments inflict on the Palestinians. Calling the descendants of the refugees refugees only encourage the Arab nations to continue to mistreat them and use them as pawns in their hostility toward Israel, when in fact, all the sufferings the Palestinians have gone through are the direct result of actions of the Arab nations to in their quest to defeat Israel.

Israel has always ducked the responsibility of the refugees it has created.

The Islamics starting a war in 1948 created the so-called “refugees”.

How can you start a war when you are at home?

 

[Hollie]

Very few of the so called Palestinians who are alive today have long standing ties to what is now Israel and very few were driven off. Their suffering today is very much caused by people like you who cherish it as a weapon to use against Israel. They are not exactly stateless. They are all citizens of the Palestinian Authority which operates in most important ways as a state.

Actually...according to historical records, most were driven off either from fear of conflict (as is often the case)or deliberate actions by the Jewish militias during the war.

Their suffering today is caused by a number of different factors none of which include me.

The refugees in camps outside of Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of the PA. Most of those in Jordan were given Jordanian citizenship. Those in Lebanon were finally given the same right to work as other foreigners in 2010 after appalling conditions were revealed. A number have been given citizenship. In Syria, no citizenship or right to work. In Saudi Arabia the same. In Iraq the same I think. So yes, many are exactly stateless.

It doesn’t matter how many generations removed from Israel they are, until they are permanently settled somewhere they are still refugees. Which leads to an interesting question. There are many multigenerational refugee camps from long standing conflicts...why is it that ONLY the Palestinians get labeled “not refugees”?

None of that means there is any right of return. I don’t believe in any collective right of return. The Arab states need to do the right thing and fully absorb the refugees outside the West Bank and Gaza. The Arab league set the rule prohibiting Arab states from granting citizenship to the Palestinians, leading to atrocious conditions. They need to do the right thing.

Nowhere else in the world are the descendants of refugees also considered refugees. All wars produce refugees, but nowhere else in the world is the status of refugee inherited by future generations. The fact that other Arabs treat the so called Palestinians with cruelty and contempt does nothing to extend the status of refugee to their offspring.

Under Oslo, all so called Palestinians other than those who are Israeli citizens are considered citizens of the PA regardless where they are presently living. Calling the neighborhoods where they live refugee camps evokes images of temporary shelters, but these neighborhoods are not at all temporary and look exactly like other poor neighborhoods in the countries they live in: the term, refugee camp, is a propaganda term intended to blame Israel for the cruel treatment the Syrian and other Arab governments inflict on the Palestinians. Calling the descendants of the refugees refugees only encourage the Arab nations to continue to mistreat them and use them as pawns in their hostility toward Israel, when in fact, all the sufferings the Palestinians have gone through are the direct result of actions of the Arab nations to in their quest to defeat Israel.

Israel has always ducked the responsibility of the refugees it has created.

The Islamics starting a war in 1948 created the so-called “refugees”.

How can you start a war when you are at home?

How can you be at home when you cross a frontier to start a war?