Are Students Coddled? Schools Get Rid of 'F's

[Mr. President]

How are you punishing the teachers or the other students? It doesn't affect them AT ALL. If teachers teach summer school, they get paid. If they teach online courses, they get paid. Is the job of the school to educate? I think it is.

Yes to educate but should the curriculum have to now make room for the twelve week extension? Surely if the student didn't grasp the concepts taught in the 5th week there is no way he/she will grasp the concepts being taught in week 11. In fact the week 5 assignment isn't neccessary until next semester. What happens to the report card?

Kids don't just fail classes out of laziness. Some of them fail a class simply because they can't think at seven in the morning. Why punish them for being teenagers?

They may be tired but we can all function at 7 in the morning. I was up at 5:30 every morning. Military household and I did excellent in school.

Maybe we live on different planets but in my opinion there is nothing wrong with allowing a student to retake a class he or she failed especially if said child learns from the experience.

Retaking every now and then is one thing if the circumstance calls for it. But manditory retakes are crutches for those lazy people who would rather be doing something else.

 

[Paulie]

So? At least they will have an education and can find another job.

Yeah, an education they only had to try half as hard to achieve.

 

[Ravi]

Yes to educate but should the curriculum have to now make room for the twelve week extension? Surely if the student didn't grasp the concepts taught in the 5th week there is no way he/she will grasp the concepts being taught in week 11. In fact the week 5 assignment isn't neccessary until next semester. What happens to the report card?





They may be tired but we can all function at 7 in the morning. I was up at 5:30 every morning. Military household and I did excellent in school.




Retaking every now and then is one thing if the circumstance calls for it. But manditory retakes are crutches for those lazy people who would rather be doing something else.

It isn't mandatory. From the article:

Students in Taylor's district can choose to retake the course, do extra work online or decide on a different remedial action with their teacher.
But if the work has not been rectified within 12 weeks, Taylor said the student will still receive a failing grade.

If a kid fails out of laziness, as you seem to suggest is the only reason they fail, then this program isn't going to help them at all. It's only going to help the kids that want to be helped. And those are the kids that are going to probably learn something.

 

[Angel Heart]

Yeah now we are talking about special needs not the average kid. Of course that would call for different measures.

What of the ones like me that didn't fit into the normal special needs requirements? I could of used help and tools to master learning a lot earlier than college. I struggled my way all the way through. Or my 13 yr old who's on grade level in all but a few areas and in those areas he's only just outside the averages. There are no services available. To have him officially tested I have to pay for it myself. I can't even do the work with him to help him. Being dyslexic makes that impossiable.

BTW did you know that 1 out of every 5 is dyslexic?

Dyslexia

According to the latest dyslexia research from the National Institutes of Health, dyslexia affects 20 percent of Americans (and about the same percentage of people in other countries.)

That’s one out of every five children.

Dyslexia can range from mild to severe.

Dyslexia can come by itself or with Attention Deficit Disorder.

In fact, if you know someone with ADD/ADHD who also has difficulty with spelling, writing, or memorizing multiplication tables, that person may also have dyslexia.

 

[Ravi]

Yeah, an education they only had to try half as hard to achieve.

No, they actually had to try twice as hard if they had to retake the course.

I'm curious. If you are against making up failing grades you must also be against allowing students that fail an entire year to repeat the year they failed, correct? Flunk one year and they are out on their asses.

 

[Mr. President]

STUDENTS CAN CHOOSE TO

that makes it their choice so they say yeha I'll just do that later.

Its not going to help its going to delay the innevitable.

 

[Mr. President]

What of the ones like me that didn't fit into the normal special needs requirements? I could of used help and tools to master learning a lot earlier than college. I struggled my way all the way through. Or my 13 yr old who's on grade level in all but a few areas and in those areas he's only just outside the averages. There are no services available. To have him officially tested I have to pay for it myself. I can't even do the work with him to help him. Being dyslexic makes that impossiable.

BTW did you know that 1 out of every 5 is dyslexic?

Dyslexia

That means %08 aren't.

 

[Paulie]

Rav, besides something obvious like a serious problem in the home life, what exactly is causing these kids to fail?

Most of the time, students fail due to lack of effort. Why should a lack of effort be REWARDED, for all intents and purposes? If you couldn't fulfil your obligations the first time around, why should you get a second chance?

I don't mind certain students getting another shot when they had a serious reason for underperformance, but too many kids just don't put forth enough effort. That's the primary reason for the US falling so hard in international academics. These types of students don't deserve a second chance, they deserve the result they created for themselves through their own effort.

 

[Paulie]

When you fail a course for the year, you start all over again and take the complete course.

Often times, when you make up a class, you're given a condensed, watered-down version of the entire cirriculum. It's a half-ass way to shove a passing grade down a kid's throat.

I don't mind starting all over again the next year. You have 9-10 months to figure the friggin class out. Having to do it all over again from day 1 should be enough of a deterrent to shape your act up.

 

[Ravi]

Rav, besides something obvious like a serious problem in the home life, what exactly is causing these kids to fail?

Most of the time, students fail due to lack of effort. Why should a lack of effort be REWARDED, for all intents and purposes? If you couldn't fulfil your obligations the first time around, why should you get a second chance?

I don't mind certain students getting another shot when they had a serious reason for underperformance, but too many kids just don't put forth enough effort. That's the primary reason for the US falling so hard in international academics. These types of students don't deserve a second chance, they deserve the result they created for themselves through their own effort.

I'm going to let you do your own homework and figure it out for yourself. Teaching kids that failure is the end of the world is a bad thing. Failure is part of life and a great learning experience of its own.

 

[Paulie]

I'm going to let you do your own homework and figure it out for yourself. Teaching kids that failure is the end of the world is a bad thing. Failure is part of life and a great learning experience of its own.

You contradict yourself and don't even realize it.

 

[Ravi]

When you fail a course for the year, you start all over again and take the complete course.

Often times, when you make up a class, you're given a condensed, watered-down version of the entire cirriculum. It's a half-ass way to shove a passing grade down a kid's throat.

I don't mind starting all over again the next year. You have 9-10 months to figure the friggin class out. Having to do it all over again from day 1 should be enough of a deterrent to shape your act up.

I don't know how it is with the school in the OP, but in our district you don't get a watered down version. You repeat the entire segment that you failed. Usually online with a different teacher.

 

[Steerpike]

So? At least they will have an education and can find another job.

I think the point is they won't really have an education.

If the old system (and I'm making numbers up for purposes of an example) passed kids with a 70% or better through a class, and a new system passes a class with 50% or better through a class, do the additional 20% now have a better education than they would have had under the old system? No. They have a piece of paper (diploma) that they wouldn't have received before, but they are no better educated.

If you lower standards to push kids through, you do not help them. You only create for them a false sense of their own education and capability.

You really help them when you work with them to achieve a true education, rather than using a rubber stamp to validate their lack of one.

 

[Ravi]

You contradict yourself and don't even realize it.

Maybe, but my point was that teaching kids that failure is permanent isn't the way to go. They still have the failure in this case, but they also have a chance to get beyond it.

 

[Angel Heart]

That means %08 aren't.

Don't you mean 80%?

I wonder what % of children are failing due to dyslexia...

Center for Dyslexia

Children Who Can't Read Become Adolescents Who Can't Read
Although many children have average or above average intelligence, they do not learn to read in the elementary classroom. They are usually bright, eager learners at the age of 6. They can answer questions about a story after the teacher has read the story aloud, they have good to excellent vocabularies, and they expect to do well in school. They have trouble manipulating sounds in words and have great difficulty "sounding out" words. If they can read some words, it is because they have memorized them. These students have a learning disability called dyslexia.

If students with dyslexia receive appropriate instruction in the early grades, they learn to read and spell. If they do not receive instruction tailored to the way they learn best, they do not learn to read and spell. They start to do poorly in school and gradually lose any enthusiasm for learning. They end up being asked (on a daily basis) to perform tasks requiring the use of literacy skills they haven't acquired. Discouragement often leads to frustration. As adolescence approaches, frustration often leads to behavior problems and loss of self-esteem. Teachers and parents can't understand why seemingly bright students are not producing work at a level that corresponds to expectations.

In Tennessee, it is estimated that 90,000-100,000 children in the K-12 school system are affected by dyslexia. This is based on a conservative estimate of 10% of the school-age population. The National Institutes for Health estimate as many as 15-20% of the U.S. population may have dyslexia. If students with dyslexia do not receive appropriate intervention, many will drop out of school as adolescents. Many will become adults who cannot read. As adults, they will have difficulty obtaining and keeping good jobs, they will not be able to help their children with their homework or read labels on prescription bottles. Their ability to fulfill their potential and contribute to the Tennessee workforce in a way that makes maximal use of the intelligence they were born with is gone. It doesn't have to be this way. We can both reach and teach adolescents with dyslexia so that they will contribute to the Tennessee workforce as competent adult workers.

 

[Ravi]

I think the point is they won't really have an education.

If the old system (and I'm making numbers up for purposes of an example) passed kids with a 70% or better through a class, and a new system passes a class with 50% or better through a class, do the additional 20% now have a better education than they would have had under the old system? No. They have a piece of paper (diploma) that they wouldn't have received before, but they are no better educated.

If you lower standards to push kids through, you do not help them. You only create for them a false sense of their own education and capability.

You really help them when you work with them to achieve a true education, rather than using a rubber stamp to validate their lack of one.

I agree with what you are saying about the grading system but I don't think it applies in this example.

 

[Steerpike]

I agree with what you are saying about the grading system but I don't think it applies in this example.

Perhaps not, but whenever a school starts down the path of lowering standards for PC or other reasons, I think it ends up hurting in the end.

 

[Paulie]

Maybe, but my point was that teaching kids that failure is permanent isn't the way to go. They still have the failure in this case, but they also have a chance to get beyond it.

They DO have a chance to get beyond it. They try again next year. One bad class isn't the end of the world. If it's multiple classes a student is failing, I think the problems run deeper than simply needing a second chance.

 

[Ravi]

Perhaps not, but whenever a school starts down the path of lowering standards for PC or other reasons, I think it ends up hurting in the end.

I don't understand why you think allowing students to retake classes they've failed is lowering standards. If they let them retake the class and pass them simply because they retook it I would agree with you. But that isn't what they do, at least not in my school district. To pass the class they must earn a passing grade using the same grading system the school already uses. If they don't pass it, they are stuck with a fail.

 

[Ravi]

They DO have a chance to get beyond it. They try again next year. One bad class isn't the end of the world. If it's multiple classes a student is failing, I think the problems run deeper than simply needing a second chance.

I didn't realize we were talking about multiple classes.