Arabian was wrong, women hate islam

HorhayAtAMD

Member
Nov 27, 2004
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Canada, eh!
Almost 100 organizations around the globe will protest Thursday against a proposal that would allow Islamic law to be used in family arbitration and mediation cases in Ontario.

Canadian and European feminist groups, dissidents from some Islamic states such as Iran, human-rights activists, writers and journalists will march Thursday in six European cities, and at least five Canadian ones. Protests will take place in Ottawa, Toronto, Waterloo, Ont., Montreal and Victoria, and in Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, Gutenberg, Stockholm, London and Paris.
...
When the report was first released in Dec. 2004, critics said allowing Islamic arbitration would effectively legalize the suppression of Muslim women - while supporters argued it would be consistent with Canadian values of multiculturalism and tolerance.
...
Boyd was asked to review Ontario's Arbitration Act after the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice requested religious-based arbitrations, similar to those that have been used in Ontario for the past 15 years. Currently in Ontario, both Jews and Catholics can choose religious arbitration if they like. If, like other religions, islam would come out of the dark ages, maybe it wouldn't be so feared by enlightened people.
Link
 
This should be no surprise. They treat women like second class citizens. Luckily most other religions have evolved over time. Although I've never understood why catholic women can't be priests. That's just stupid if you ask me but it's not my religion so why should I care.
 
"Boyd was asked to review Ontario's Arbitration Act after the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice requested religious-based arbitrations, similar to those that have been used in Ontario for the past 15 years. Currently in Ontario, both Jews and Catholics can choose religious arbitration if they like."

Bad simile. Jews and Catholics have been in Canada since very early in European settlement. Muslims are a relatively recent addition and fundamentalist Muslims are a very recent scourge. There is no reason to retreat into the middle ages for their sake. What's next, bringing in some idiots from New Guinea and allowing them to eat human brains in downtown Montreal in the name of multi-culturalism and religious freedom?
 
nucular said:
"Boyd was asked to review Ontario's Arbitration Act after the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice requested religious-based arbitrations, similar to those that have been used in Ontario for the past 15 years. Currently in Ontario, both Jews and Catholics can choose religious arbitration if they like."

Bad simile. Jews and Catholics have been in Canada since very early in European settlement. Muslims are a relatively recent addition and fundamentalist Muslims are a very recent scourge. There is no reason to retreat into the middle ages for their sake. What's next, bringing in some idiots from New Guinea and allowing them to eat human brains in downtown Montreal in the name of multi-culturalism and religious freedom?


The Catholic church has very little influence over communities at large, here in Ottawa, which has a large French Catholic population. I can't speak for the Jewish community, but I can say it's highly doubtful that anyone uses the Catholic church for anything involving civil matters. Advice or mediation maybe, but not as an alternative to the legal system. I'm sure there are exceptions, but those exceptions are probably few and far between.
 
nucular said:
"Boyd was asked to review Ontario's Arbitration Act after the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice requested religious-based arbitrations, similar to those that have been used in Ontario for the past 15 years. Currently in Ontario, both Jews and Catholics can choose religious arbitration if they like."

Bad simile. Jews and Catholics have been in Canada since very early in European settlement. Muslims are a relatively recent addition and fundamentalist Muslims are a very recent scourge. There is no reason to retreat into the middle ages for their sake. What's next, bringing in some idiots from New Guinea and allowing them to eat human brains in downtown Montreal in the name of multi-culturalism and religious freedom?

It depends, will they be eating Jew brains?
 
Said1 said:
Downtown Montreal.....it's quite possible. I think that would probably be acceptable. No monkey brains though, that would be wrong.

sad.
 
it depends all on how you interpret. there are even muslim-women muftis/prayers/Imams .
 
canavar said:
it depends all on how you interpret. there are even muslim-women muftis/prayers/Imams .

There you have it; Islam must be a peace loving religion focused on gender equality.
 
canavar said:
it depends all on how you interpret. there are even muslim-women muftis/prayers/Imams .

How would be interpreted in the instances of family (civil) law ie: inheritence, divorce, custody, abuse etc.
 
Hay


Hi again
Actually i think im not mistaken,, at least im a girl and i love Islam,, and Im really proud to be Muslim
anyway,, back to the main point..

why you always think about equality,, human think about equality,,
but islam talk about integration,, complete,,
both sex complete each other ,, the men cant stand alone with women and vice versa,,
but equality means that man=women right
but this is impossible,, cause the man cant live alone neither the woman,,
then it isnt a right equation cause the LS cant stand without the right side,,,


Chapter 78:
AN-NABA (THE TIDINGS, THE ANNOUNCEMENT
008
And (have We not) created you in pairs


Qur'an, Chapter 30:
AL-ROOM

021
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect. Surah the light 024.026
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable


but in islam they can be equal in their works and deeds ,, good deeds i mean sure..
Qur'an, Chapter 49:
AL-HUJRAAT (THE PRIVATE APARTMENTS, THE INNER APARTMENTS)
013
O mankind! Lo! We have created you in pairs (male and female), and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.


He didn’t say women or men but Allah said that noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.
He didn’t define whether it’s a man or woman,, but with their deeds..

How the women can be equal with men ,,
in the army for example,,, in some country i mean,,
women is a very beautiful creature and cute cant bear the pain as the man should bear it,,
for example if the women worked in the army do you call that a respect for here nature,, by the time she will be bold in her way in speaking she will loose her kindness , her compassion her sympathy,, these characteristic that differ women from men,, and other things…

Islam didn’t forbid the women working,, but islam give her the suitable work for her ,, in this work she can give more,, kind of work that suit her nature,, like DR or teacher or other jobs that suit her nature,,,,

and there is also a whole surah in the qur'an named by women ,, what after this,,
and about stuff in inheritance

8. Apart from recognition of woman as an independent human being acknowledged as equally essential for the survival of humanity, Islam has given her a share of inheritence. Before Islam, she was not only deprived of that share but was herself considered as property to be inherited by man. Out of that transferable property Islam made an heir, acknowledging the inherent human qualifies in woman. Whether she is a wife or mother, a sister or daughter, she receives a certain share of the deceased kin's property, a share which depends on her degree of relationship to the deceased and the number of heirs. This share is hers, and no one can take it away or disinherit her. Even if the deceased wishes to deprive her by making a will to other relations or in favor of any other cause, the Law will not allow him to do so. Any proprietor is permitted to make his will within the limit of one-third of his property, so he may not affect the rights of his heirs, men and women. In the case of inheritance, the question of quality and sameness is fully applicable. In principle, both man and woman are equally entitled to inherit the property of the deceased relations but the portions they get may vary. In some instances man receives two shares whereas woman gets one only. This no sign of giving preference or supremacy to man over woman. The reasons why man gets more in these particular instances may be classified as follows:

First, man is the person solely responsible for the complete maintenance of his wife, his family and any other needy relations. It is his duty by Law to assume all financial responsibilities and maintain his dependents adequately. It is also his duty to contribute financially to all good causes in his society. All financial burdens are borne by him alone.
Secondly, in contrast, woman has no financial responsibilities whatsoever except very little of her personal expenses, the high luxurious things that she likes to have. She is financially secure and provided for. If she is a wife, her husband is the provider; if she is a mother, it is the son; if she is a daughter, it is the father; if she is a sister; it is the brother, and so on. If she has no relations on whom she can depend, then there is no question of inheritance because there is nothing to inherit and there is no one to bequeath anything to her. However, she will not be left to starve, maintenance of such a woman is the responsibility of the society as a whole, the state. She may be given aid or a job to earn her living, and whatever money she makes will be hers. She is not responsible for the maintenance of anybody else besides herself. If there is a man in her position,he would still be responsible for his family and possibly any of his relations who need his help. So, in the hardest situation her financial responsibility is limited, while his is unlimited.


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/4482/article14.htm

and about abuse,, I think that the highest rate in abuse women resign in the USA
highest rate in rapping in the USA too

and again if you have precious diamond wont you like to keep it away from eyes and from mud ,, till it be beautiful for ever,,
this is how islam deal with women ,, he keep it as a precious diamond,, not like reusable thing…

Q
If u have a very beautiful box,, wont you die to know what inside it,,
In the same time if u have a beautiful thing beside this box ,, u will play with this beautiful thing till u get bored then u will again die to know what inside this beautiful box.
Women not a good on the shelves of the markets,, each one come to see them and choose the best or eat apart from it and leave the rest,,,


I hope u could get my point
 
Arabian said:
Hay


Hi again
Actually i think im not mistaken,, at least im a girl and i love Islam,, and Im really proud to be Muslim
anyway,, back to the main point..

why you always think about equality,, human think about equality,,
but islam talk about integration,, complete,,
both sex complete each other ,, the men cant stand alone with women and vice versa,,
but equality means that man=women right
but this is impossible,, cause the man cant live alone neither the woman,,
then it isnt a right equation cause the LS cant stand without the right side,,,


Chapter 78:
AN-NABA (THE TIDINGS, THE ANNOUNCEMENT
008
And (have We not) created you in pairs


Qur'an, Chapter 30:
AL-ROOM

021
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect. Surah the light 024.026
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable


but in islam they can be equal in their works and deeds ,, good deeds i mean sure..
Qur'an, Chapter 49:
AL-HUJRAAT (THE PRIVATE APARTMENTS, THE INNER APARTMENTS)
013
O mankind! Lo! We have created you in pairs (male and female), and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.


He didn’t say women or men but Allah said that noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.
He didn’t define whether it’s a man or woman,, but with their deeds..

How the women can be equal with men ,,
in the army for example,,, in some country i mean,,
women is a very beautiful creature and cute cant bear the pain as the man should bear it,,
for example if the women worked in the army do you call that a respect for here nature,, by the time she will be bold in her way in speaking she will loose her kindness , her compassion her sympathy,, these characteristic that differ women from men,, and other things…

Islam didn’t forbid the women working,, but islam give her the suitable work for her ,, in this work she can give more,, kind of work that suit her nature,, like DR or teacher or other jobs that suit her nature,,,,

and there is also a whole surah in the qur'an named by women ,, what after this,,
and about stuff in inheritance




http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/4482/article14.htm

and about abuse,, I think that the highest rate in abuse women resign in the USA
highest rate in rapping in the USA too

and again if you have precious diamond wont you like to keep it away from eyes and from mud ,, till it be beautiful for ever,,
this is how islam deal with women ,, he keep it as a precious diamond,, not like reusable thing…

Q
If u have a very beautiful box,, wont you die to know what inside it,,
In the same time if u have a beautiful thing beside this box ,, u will play with this beautiful thing till u get bored then u will again die to know what inside this beautiful box.
Women not a good on the shelves of the markets,, each one come to see them and choose the best or eat apart from it and leave the rest,,,


I hope u could get my point


were there not "Rape Rooms" in Saddams government...and did not his sons have the first try at the newly wed young ladies... that were attractive?
 
Arabian said:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/4482/article14.htm

and about abuse,, I think that the highest rate in abuse women resign in the USA highest rate in rapping in the USA too

Do you supppose the statistics are more acurate because domestic abuse is against the law and reported more often than in countries where beating your wife is not frowned upon or in some places legal?

and again if you have precious diamond wont you like to keep it away from eyes and from mud ,, till it be beautiful for ever,,
this is how islam deal with women ,, he keep it as a precious diamond,, not like reusable thing…

No.

Q
If u have a very beautiful box,, wont you die to know what inside it,,
In the same time if u have a beautiful thing beside this box ,, u will play with this beautiful thing till u get bored then u will again die to know what inside this beautiful box.
Women not a good on the shelves of the markets,, each one come to see them and choose the best or eat apart from it and leave the rest,,,


I hope u could get my point

Well, what if the contents of the box is horrible and hideously ugly? And the only way I could see what is inside is to bind myself to it for life, then to make matters worse, I had to get naked and procreate with it, or my manhood would be shunned? I would be pretty pissed and tempted to look in other boxes.
 
archangel said:
were there not "Rape Rooms" in Saddams government...and did not his sons have the first try at the newly wed young ladies... that were attractive?

Lol
its my 1st time to here such things,,
but i dont know from where you get it,,
but actually im not talking about saddam or his sons
im talking about islam..

Let us look at Noble Verses 4:15-16 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.

If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful."

Let us look at Noble Verse 24:2 "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."


Qur'an, Chapter 17:
AL-ISRA (ISRA', THE NIGHT JOURNEY, CHILDREN OF ISRAEL)
32
Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

i hope you got the point,,
islam is areligion from allah,, not guys may not working with it well,,
 
Said1 said:
Do you supppose the statistics are more acurate because domestic abuse is against the law and reported more often than in countries where beating your wife is not frowned upon or in some places legal?



No.



Well, what if the contents of the box is horrible and hideously ugly? And the only way I could see what is inside is to bind myself to it for life, then to make matters worse, I had to get naked and procreate with it, or my manhood would be shunned? I would be pretty pissed and tempted to look in other boxes.


1st there is something called engagement period,,
in it both side can get know to each other,, but it will be under the control of the family,,
and what i meant inside the box,, that its still new ,, still keeping here light ,, it still precious,,
and part me if you meant here beauty,, not all women beautifull,
but each of us has her beauty ,, some are beautiful,, but ugly with her doing and acts,, and she maybe idiot or she dont think,,
others maybe not extreme beutiful, but she is funny and well-knowledge,, other may ugly,, but here kidness and culture and.... made u see her the most beautiful woman in the world ,,,
there is no measure,,
but the differ her that she didnt give up her beauty to every one like a good on the markets shelf,,
hope u got my point...
 
no1tovote4 said:
I was wondering what had happened to you Arabian, good to see ya again!

thanx for the quetion,,
but you know exams..
and you know what i've got A thanx to Allah,,
and i hope u be proud of me,,
salam bro and thanx for the Q again
 
Arabian said:
1st there is something called engagement period,,
in it both side can get know to each other,, but it will be under the control of the family,,
and what i meant inside the box,, that its still new ,, still keeping here light ,, it still precious,,
and part me if you meant here beauty,, not all women beautifull,
but each of us has her beauty ,, some are beautiful,, but ugly with her doing and acts,, and she maybe idiot or she dont think,,
others maybe not extreme beutiful, but she is funny and well-knowledge,, other may ugly,, but here kidness and culture and.... made u see her the most beautiful woman in the world ,,,
there is no measure,,
but the differ her that she didnt give up her beauty to every one like a good on the markets shelf,,
hope u got my point...

So each woman is beautiful via her 'box'. Once that is violated, willingly or not, she is flotsam?
 
Arabian said:
Let us look at Noble Verses 4:15-16 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.

If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful."

So, the lewd woman has to remain confined for the rest of her life? What happened to the person that was participating in the lewd behavior with her?

And, if "two" men participate in lewd acts (is this referring to gay men), and they repent, they can go on with their lives ....... no confinement until death?

Wow.........what woman, in her right mind, would accept this type of societal/religious edict?

I think I would choose that both genders be given equal consequences, rather than the intangible "integration" or "completeness".
 
kurtsprincess said:
I think I would choose that both genders be given equal consequences, rather than the intangible "integration" or "completeness".

The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." He destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Why should only a daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or anything like that!


in islam
qur'an

surat al Isra'
032
Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
surat the light
1)A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
2)The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

3)Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4)And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;

5)Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

u can read the rest of sura in this link
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/024.qmt.html
surat al noor (the light) ,, it talk about this matter..


Let us look at Ayat (verses) 4:15-18 "(15). If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

(16). If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and mend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

(17). Allah accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allah turn in mercy: For Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

(18). Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous."

The above Noble Verses (4:15-18) that are used by the Anti-Islamics who try to prove that Islam is a harsh religion on women actually prove that they are working hard to make up lies about Islam that hold no truth.



Few points to notice:

In 4:15 above, we see the Noble Quran makes it almost impossible to prove a woman guilty of lewdness, because the court needs at least four reliable witnesses to prove that she actually committed a sin by having illegal sex. The reason for that is because Islam recognizes the woman’s honor as something very serious and holy, and it must not be tampered with or joked with. The woman is innocent until 4 witnesses are presented to prove that she is guilty of sin. Islam takes any charge against women very seriously and doesn't forgive those who lie about it or even don't look 100% truthful about it; "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 24:4)"

In 4:16 above, we see that the Noble Quran orders the punishment of those men who are guilty of lewdness and orders the Muslims to not harass them after the punishment if they repent. If the two men are witnessed by one man only or had been caught, then they get punished. Back then 1400 years ago, they would get flogged 40 to 100 stripes depending on what they had been caught on.

Let us look at the following Saying from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:

Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Jabir: "On the authority of others, that the Prophet said, 'No Punishment exceeds the flogging of the ten stripes, except if one is guilty of a crime necessitating a legal punishment prescribed by Allah.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Punishment of Disbelievers at War with Allah and His Apostle, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 832)"

As I said, in the laws of Islam, the flogging would be between 40 to 100 stripes depending on what type or degree of sexual crime the two gay men have committed. The punishment of 100 stripes law is agreed upon to be applied to the gay men in the case of "sexual intercourse". Allah Almighty said:

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. (The Noble Quran, Noble Verse 24:2)"

Now in case of Noble Verse 4:15, when the woman is proven guilty in 4:15, then her punishment is to stay at her husband’s house. Her husband must not divorce her at first and must work it out with her "confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. (4:15)" Anti-Islamics claim that "confine them to houses until death do claim them" means that husbands must imprison the wives in the houses until they die. Well this is a false and bogus claim, because (1) In Arabic, the word which was wrongly translated as "Confine" is "Fa-Amsikuhunna" which means keep them does not mean at all to imprison them. The word "Confine them" in Arabic is "Fa-Asjinohunna" or "Fa-Ahbisohunna". The word "Fa-Amsikuhunna" which was used in the Noble Verse 4:15 only means "keep them" and not imprison them.

(2) The second part of the sentence "…or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. (4:15)" Means in Arabic "Aou yaj-aala Allah lahunna sabeela" which means that if they repent then Allah Almighty will let them go on their ways by allowing the men to either divorce them or keep them as their wives. This is something that both spouses have to workout and decide on. If the woman was not married, then this verse applies to the parents or the guardians.

Finally, (3) In (4:17) above we see that Allah Almighty accepts the repentance of those who do evil "Allah accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance…(4:17)", which totally disproves the Anti-Islamic point about imprisoning the women in their houses until they die, because Allah Almighty forgives those (men and women) who repent and He accepts their repentance.

It is very unfortunate that the Anti-Islamics especially from among the Arab Christians who speak Arabic fluently to try and twist the Arabic Expression that mean something in Arabic but totally mean something else in other languages to support their lies. Did you know that in Arabic the word "no" could mean "yes" in some sentences, and speaking of the past could actually mean that you are speaking of the present?

The complexity of the Arabic language and its literature makes it easy to make up a lie about the Noble Quran and to try to confuse the non Arabic Muslims. It is also unfortunate that Sheik (Minister) Abdallah Yusuf Ali who translated the Noble Quran from his national language in Pakistan (Urdu) to English does not know how to speak proper Arabic and had missed out on these types of expressions in the Noble Quran.



Conclusion:

Islam is a merciful religion on both the men and the women. Islam sees the high value of the woman’s honor and respects it by ordering the court to bring at least 4 reliable witness against the her or else the case would be dropped. Allah Almighty loves us so much that he accepts our repentance and forgives us.

this what i meant
and this site is good too
http://www.iiie.net/Articles/WomensStatus.html
if you wanna know more
 

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