anyone here a oathkeeper?

[Gunny]

Oh, and what unlawful order did the NG follow during Katrina?

first, i don't decide what is unlawful, the United States Constitution does, which the oath of service binds one's loyalty when entering into service to the American people.

Second, the National Guard comitted treason by disarming the American people in 2005. Please watch the youtube video posted on the first page for more details.

I hope you take it upon yourself to study a little bit of history before calling people loons in relation to a subject you clearly do not have the atiquate educational training to understand.

The video shows NOPD taking guns...not the Guard.

This is why you aren't qualified to decide what is lawful and what is not...you don't know what you are talking about.

1+1=3, huh? How does mistaking which government organization is confiscating the guns disqualify one from knowing what is lawful and what is not?

Regardless which government agency at which level did it ... and the Guard WAS also doing it ... the fact remains they were confiscated.

However, the picking and choosing here is getting to be a bit too much. The LA Nat'l Guard is the state militia with authority only within the state of LA unless it is federalized. Thus, some people in NO were disarmed by the State of LA. The Nat'l Guard did NOT "disarm the American people."

The act does not constitute treason. The right to keep and bear arms was not infringed by a temporary confiscation in the best interest of the public safety during a crisis. If the firearms were not returned, that is a different matter.

I wouldn't have given mine up. Simple as that. I can't imagine that would have been all that hard to accomplish unless one was waving one's firearms around in the air.

Too much extremism, not enough common sense going on here from BOTH sides.

 

[Ravi]

I agree with most of what you said, Gunny. I think taking guns away from people in that situation is not right, after all they were only wanting to protect themselves...but at the same time I can understand why law enforcement felt compelled to do it.

However I've not seen any evidence that the Guard confiscated guns.

 

[Diuretic]

Active duty military personnel can do whatever the Hell they want on their own time so long as they do not present themselves as representing their respective branch of service, the U S military in general, and/or the US government.

Active duty military personnel should likewise not be involved in radical leftwing, socialist/fascist, anti-American organizations.

this organization is specifically for military members so they would be representing the military by joining.

The membership is not just active Military. It is retired Military as well as Police officers and many other groups. I am a supporter.

What We Are Not


We are Not advocating or promoting the overthrow of
any government whether local, state or national.
We want our governments to return to the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution defined and instituted.


We are Not advocating or promoting violence towards
any organization, group or person.
We are determined to Honor our Oath to support and
defend the Constitution.


We are not advocating or promoting the removal of any
person from his or her elected office.
We want all elected persons to live up to their
Oath to "support and defend the Constitution" as it
is written or to leave of their own volition.


We are not advocating or promoting that anyone in the
Judicial Branch be removed or replaced.
We want the Justices in the Judicial Branch to follow
the Constitution as written without interpretation.


We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted.


We are not advocating or promoting the rewriting of
the Constitution nor are we asking for an Amendment thereto.
We are insisting on the Constitution being Enforced
as it is written without interpretation.


We are Not advocating or promoting any act or acts of
aggression against any organization or person for any
reason including, but not limited to; race, religion,
national origin, political affiliation, gender or
sexual orientation.

We hope for a return to a Constitutional Republic free from fear and hatred,
We hate only tyranny.


We are Oath sworn Americans who want the
Constitution returned to its Legal and Rightful place, intact,
as the Ultimate Law of the Land.

Sounds like a self-help group for people with a passive-aggressive problem

 

[editec]

If you don't mind me interupting the flow of this goofy interservice pissing contest for a moment, I'd like to say that while I completely understand why someone might find the idea of the Oathkeepers an attractive concept, I suspect that this organization is not entirely the proAmerican Constitution protection group it claims to be.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and we will not obey unconstitutional (and thus illegal) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law and deprive them of their ancient right to jury trial.

We Oath Keepers have drawn a line in the sand. We will not “just follow orders.”

Our motto is “Not on our watch!”

This group really is antithetical to the concept of a civilian-lead government, folks.

It is another example of the continued development of the police state that so many of you fear, ya know.

Hiding behind noble sounding phrases like "Not on my watch" doesn't change the fact that it threatens the chain of command leading to the POTUS.

Now certainly under some circumstances something like this might becme necessary.

But who is calling the shots, exactly?

Who decides when the civil authority is no longer following the constiution? Who decides what orders are constiutional?

Cops and the military personnel?

And their qaulifications for interpreting the Constitution are what exactly?

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

Mark my words, these guys who innocently join are really American patriots, but their leaders are not believers in democratic forms of government.

Don't let your frustration with the messy and frustrating process called democracy lead you down a path taking you to a military/police style of government, folks.

The Germans did that in the 30s and it didn't work out all that well for them.

If you're frustrated with what is happening (and who the fuck isn't?) get involved politically and leave the para-military nonsense to the brownshirts.

 

[noose4]

The membership is not just active Military. It is retired Military as well as Police officers and many other groups. I am a supporter.

What We Are Not


We are Not advocating or promoting the overthrow of
any government whether local, state or national.
We want our governments to return to the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution defined and instituted.


We are Not advocating or promoting violence towards
any organization, group or person.
We are determined to Honor our Oath to support and
defend the Constitution.


We are not advocating or promoting the removal of any
person from his or her elected office.
We want all elected persons to live up to their
Oath to "support and defend the Constitution" as it
is written or to leave of their own volition.


We are not advocating or promoting that anyone in the
Judicial Branch be removed or replaced.
We want the Justices in the Judicial Branch to follow
the Constitution as written without interpretation.


We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted.


We are not advocating or promoting the rewriting of
the Constitution nor are we asking for an Amendment thereto.
We are insisting on the Constitution being Enforced
as it is written without interpretation.


We are Not advocating or promoting any act or acts of
aggression against any organization or person for any
reason including, but not limited to; race, religion,
national origin, political affiliation, gender or
sexual orientation.

We hope for a return to a Constitutional Republic free from fear and hatred,
We hate only tyranny.


We are Oath sworn Americans who want the
Constitution returned to its Legal and Rightful place, intact,
as the Ultimate Law of the Land.

funny how they pop up now but not during bush's time in office, i guess things like the patriot act were just fine with these people regarding questions of constitutionality.

Where've YOU been? I pissed all over the Republican Congress and Bush when what they did was unConstitutional. I just didn't do it every time a leftwingnut threw his dirty skivvies against the wall to see if they'd stick.

i was speaking about those who choose to form and join this group, taking the oath should stand by itself, no reason to form a group stating you will stand by the oath taken, by taking the oath the idea that you will stand by it is already a given.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

The kind of people leading this organization would support civilian death squads in the United States, I'm sure.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

The kind of people leading this organization would support civilian death squads in the United States, I'm sure.

What the hell are you babbling about fence sitter? That is complete nonsense. ~BH

 

[Gunny]

If you don't mind me interupting the flow of this goofy interservice pissing contest for a moment, I'd like to say that while I completely understand why someone might find the idea of the Oathkeepers an attractive concept, I suspect that this organization is not entirely the proAmerican Constitution protection group it claims to be.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and we will not obey unconstitutional (and thus illegal) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law and deprive them of their ancient right to jury trial.

We Oath Keepers have drawn a line in the sand. We will not “just follow orders.”

Our motto is “Not on our watch!”

This group really is antithetical to the concept of a civilian-lead government, folks.

It is another example of the continued development of the police state that so many of you fear, ya know.

Hiding behind noble sounding phrases like "Not on my watch" doesn't change the fact that it threatens the chain of command leading to the POTUS.

Now certainly under some circumstances something like this might becme necessary.

But who is calling the shots, exactly?

Who decides when the civil authority is no longer following the constiution? Who decides what orders are constiutional?

Cops and the military personnel?

And their qaulifications for interpreting the Constitution are what exactly?

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

Mark my words, these guys who innocently join are really American patriots, but their leaders are not believers in democratic forms of government.

Don't let your frustration with the messy and frustrating process called democracy lead you down a path taking you to a military/police style of government, folks.

The Germans did that in the 30s and it didn't work out all that well for them.

If you're frustrated with what is happening (and who the fuck isn't?) get involved politically and leave the para-military nonsense to the brownshirts.

I keep hearing this, and keep asking for some validation, and all I've gotten are opinions. We know what those are worth.

If the gorup is up to somethign else, prove it. Baseless accusations and conjecture don't amount to squat.

 

[Liberty]

prove it's a conspiracy.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

The kind of people leading this organization would support civilian death squads in the United States, I'm sure.

Translation = I don't know what the heck I am talking about. But, in order to seem cool to my partisan hack friends, I am going to make an asinine post in hopes I will get some positive reps.

 

[PixieStix]

prove it's a conspiracy.

Exactly. A conspiracy is something that is hidden. There is nothing hidden by the Oath Keepers. They are simply rededicating their lives to the cause of freedom and giving the people of the country that they took the oath for a lot of encouragement with their words and their promise to keep that Oath, (To protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic)


The conspiracy is what the left is doing to the Constituion.

 

[Toro]

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

The kind of people leading this organization would support civilian death squads in the United States, I'm sure.

Translation = I don't know what the heck I am talking about. But, in order to seem cool to my partisan hack friends, I am going to make an asinine post in hopes I will get some positive reps.

For the record, I don't agree with what editec is saying, but...

PubliusInfinitum has written that leftists should be, nay, will be killed with extreme prejudice.

Now, I don't know if PI is or would be one of the guys shouting down others at these meetings. He may be a very polite individual in real life, I don't know. But it is not a far leap from saying others should be killed simply because they disagree with the fundamental ideas of the United States to supporting death squads.

 

[Diuretic]

prove it's a conspiracy.

Exactly. A conspiracy is something that is hidden. There is nothing hidden by the Oath Keepers. They are simply rededicating their lives to the cause of freedom and giving the people of the country that they took the oath for a lot of encouragement with their words and their promise to keep that Oath, (To protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic)


The conspiracy is what the left is doing to the Constituion.

Maybe the Oath Keepers are just a mob of wankers?

 

[editec]

If you don't mind me interupting the flow of this goofy interservice pissing contest for a moment, I'd like to say that while I completely understand why someone might find the idea of the Oathkeepers an attractive concept, I suspect that this organization is not entirely the proAmerican Constitution protection group it claims to be.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and we will not obey unconstitutional (and thus illegal) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law and deprive them of their ancient right to jury trial.

We Oath Keepers have drawn a line in the sand. We will not “just follow orders.”

Our motto is “Not on our watch!”

This group really is antithetical to the concept of a civilian-lead government, folks.

It is another example of the continued development of the police state that so many of you fear, ya know.

Hiding behind noble sounding phrases like "Not on my watch" doesn't change the fact that it threatens the chain of command leading to the POTUS.

Now certainly under some circumstances something like this might becme necessary.

But who is calling the shots, exactly?

Who decides when the civil authority is no longer following the constiution? Who decides what orders are constiutional?

Cops and the military personnel?

And their qaulifications for interpreting the Constitution are what exactly?

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

Mark my words, these guys who innocently join are really American patriots, but their leaders are not believers in democratic forms of government.

Don't let your frustration with the messy and frustrating process called democracy lead you down a path taking you to a military/police style of government, folks.

The Germans did that in the 30s and it didn't work out all that well for them.

If you're frustrated with what is happening (and who the fuck isn't?) get involved politically and leave the para-military nonsense to the brownshirts.

I keep hearing this, and keep asking for some validation, and all I've gotten are opinions. We know what those are worth.

If the gorup is up to somethign else, prove it. Baseless accusations and conjecture don't amount to squat.

Baseless?

They clearly state they believe that the troops must decide which legal orders they are given are constitutional, right?

They were therefore advocating a military state (that's prtty much the definition of fascism, BTW) which supercedes civilian authority

That's not groundless, Gunny, that's fucking obvious to anyone who is in their heart of hearts a CIVILIAN.

 

[Liberty]

If you don't mind me interupting the flow of this goofy interservice pissing contest for a moment, I'd like to say that while I completely understand why someone might find the idea of the Oathkeepers an attractive concept, I suspect that this organization is not entirely the proAmerican Constitution protection group it claims to be.



This group really is antithetical to the concept of a civilian-lead government, folks.

It is another example of the continued development of the police state that so many of you fear, ya know.

Hiding behind noble sounding phrases like "Not on my watch" doesn't change the fact that it threatens the chain of command leading to the POTUS.

Now certainly under some circumstances something like this might becme necessary.

But who is calling the shots, exactly?

Who decides when the civil authority is no longer following the constiution? Who decides what orders are constiutional?

Cops and the military personnel?

And their qaulifications for interpreting the Constitution are what exactly?

Governments that are fearful of their military personnel and police are banana republics, folks.

The kind of people who will be leading this organization are the same kinds of people who support civilian death squads in central America.

Mark my words, these guys who innocently join are really American patriots, but their leaders are not believers in democratic forms of government.

Don't let your frustration with the messy and frustrating process called democracy lead you down a path taking you to a military/police style of government, folks.

The Germans did that in the 30s and it didn't work out all that well for them.

If you're frustrated with what is happening (and who the fuck isn't?) get involved politically and leave the para-military nonsense to the brownshirts.

I keep hearing this, and keep asking for some validation, and all I've gotten are opinions. We know what those are worth.

If the gorup is up to somethign else, prove it. Baseless accusations and conjecture don't amount to squat.

Baseless?

They clearly state they believe that the troops must decide which legal orders they are given are constitutional, right?

They were therefore advocating a military state (that's prtty much the definition of fascism, BTW) which supercedes civilian authority

That's not groundless, Gunny, that's fucking obvious to anyone who is in their heart of hearts a CIVILIAN.

AGAIN, if you watch the video, a Marine Officer clearly says that any Marine has the right to refuse an unlawful order.

 

[geauxtohell]

I'm sure there must be something in the various military codes that disallows active service members from joining organizations that expect them to violate legal orders from their commanding officers...

Exactly.

More succintly:

You don't get to make up your own provisions for the UCMJ.

 

[PI2]

sigh...a "moderator" derailing a thread...interesting. internet tough guy i see.

Nothing "tough guy" about me, wingnut. Bring your argument.

But if your "argument" entails treason because you want to misrepresent the oath, I'll drop a hammer on your ass in a heartbeat.

Isn't the correct phrase "Drop a round in your ass" Not "drop a hammer on your ass".

 

[PI2]

My money is on Gunny.

Same here. I think the noob is out of his league.

The noob doesn't have an argument. He's spent all his time trying to impress me with what-all he claims to have done during his alleged tenure in the military.

No officer worth a shit talks the shit this clown is. Either he never was an officer, or he wasn't one for very long and most likely was a boxkicking beancounter without a clue. Any officer with an attitude like is probably got his ass served by some troopies and he still can't get over it.

Personally, I think he's just a piece of shit with about as much TIS as Barrack Obama.

Troop is Army jargon Blue Skull.

 

[Christophera]

Anyone here a oathkeeper? If so and you know something about steel and concrete construction, your best chance to protect and defend the Constitution is in the thread titled.

FEMA Deceives Nation About Twin Towers Core

I have evidence whic is independently verified showing that FEMA completely decived the NIST investigation and that due process in the "cuse of death" of 3,000 on 9-11 has not been satisfied.

Our soldiers are being used.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...a-deceives-nation-about-twin-towers-core.html

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Anyone here a oathkeeper? If so and you know something about steel and concrete construction, your best chance to protect and defend the Constitution is in the thread titled.

FEMA Deceives Nation About Twin Towers Core

I have evidence whic is independently verified showing that FEMA completely decived the NIST investigation and that due process in the "cuse of death" of 3,000 on 9-11 has not been satisfied.

Our soldiers are being used.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...a-deceives-nation-about-twin-towers-core.html

The government causing 9/11 for its own devices etc. is a load of crap, in my opinion. This thread isn't about that.