Any one wish to discuss Israel vs. Palestine here?

[Billo_Really]

You'll have to be more specific, or provide a link to the event. Either way, my prediction stands.

Here you go...

Within weeks of entering into the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire agreement, Hamas rocket fire had come to a halt. According to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the ceasefire was so successful that it brought "normal life and "calm" back to Israeli towns near Gaza. In an article posted on July 27, 2008, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs even lauds Hamas, stating:

Publicly, Hamas leaders have stated time and again that the lull is a Palestinian national interest. On several occasions, Hamas members have arrested Fatah operatives who were involved in firing at Israel and confiscated their arms.

Calm prevailed for four months until Israeli forces broke the ceasefire agreement on November 4, 2008. While the world's gaze turned to one of the U.S.'s most historic elections that day, Israel launched an armed incursion into Gaza, accompanied by aerial bombing, killing six Hamas members and catapulting the region into a renewed wave of violent hostilities.

It looks like Israel is the one who doesn't want peace.

Really. Cite such an instance or one substatially simiilar.

I can site several.

Israeli Terrorist Incidents against Palestinians

-- Tira, December 11, 1947 - five Palestinians were killed and six injured;

-- a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 - 12 Palestinians killed;

-- a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 - 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;

-- al-Khias, December 18, 1947 - the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;

-- Haifa, December 30, 1947 - six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;

-- Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 - Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;

-- Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 - the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;

-- Jaffa, January 4, 1948 - the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;

-- the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 - the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;

-- Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 - 17 Palestinians killed;

-- Tireh, February 10, 1948 - seven Palestinians killed and five injured;

-- on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 - five Palestinians killed and five injured;

-- Sa'sa', February 14, 1948 - 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;

-- Qisarya, February 15 - 20, 1948 - 25 Palestinians killed;

-- Haifa, February 20, 1948 - six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;

-- Haifa, March 3, 1948 - the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;

-- al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 - 17 - the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;

-- Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;

-- al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 - 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;

-- Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 - the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel's "War of Independence:" depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing countless rapes and other atrocities;" remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;

-- Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 - Jews killed 90 Palestinians;

-- Tiberias, April 19, 1948 - Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;

-- Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 - 4, 1948 - 27 Palestinians killed;

-- Acre, May 18, 1948 - Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;

-- al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 - Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;

-- al-Tantura, May 22 - 23, 1948 - Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;

-- on May 26, 1948, David Ben-Gurion formed the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the Haganah;

-- Lydda, July 11 - 12, 1948 - the IDF killed several hundred civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;

-- Elot, late July, 1948 - the IDF arrested 46 young men; on August 3, several were found dead, and 14 of those arrested were shot in cold blood in an olive grove - in full view of the villagers;

-- Suqrir, August 29, 1948 - the IDF killed 10 villagers;

-- Hula, Lebanon, October 24 - 29, 1948 - the IDF machine-gunned 50 villagers;

-- al-Dawayima, October 29, 1948 - the IDF killed up to 200 villagers;

-- Majd al-Kurum, October 30, 1948 - the IDF slaughtered 20 or more villagers in cold blood;

-- Saliha, October 30, 1948 - IDF forces blew up a house killing 94 Palestinians;

-- Sa'sa', October 30, 1948 - hundreds of Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood; the entire village was expelled;

-- Nahf, October 31, 1948 - a brutal massacre was carried out of unknown numbers;

-- Khirbat al-Wa'ra al-Sawda, November 2, 1948 - the IDF killed 14 villagers;

-- Beit Jala, January 6, 1952 - seven Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood;

-- Jerusalem, April 22, 1953 - the IDF killed 10 Palestinians;

-- Bureji Refugee Camp, August 28, 1953 - the IDF killed 20 Palestinians and wounded 62 others;

-- Qibya, Jordan, October 14, 1953 - Ariel Sharon's infamous Unit 101 killed 70 villagers;

-- Nahalin, Jordan, March 28, 1954 - the IDF killed nine Arabs and wounded 19;

-- Gaza City, April 5, 1956 - IDF shelling killed 56 and wounded 193;

-- Kafr Kassem, October 29, 1956 - the IDF killed about 50 men, women and children;

-- the Suez War, October 29 - November 7, 1956 - the IDF executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;

-- Khan Yunis, November 3, 1956 - the IDF killed dozens of civilians in cold blood;

-- Rafah Refugee Camp, November 12, 1956 - the IDF slaughtered over 100 Palestinians;

-- Nuqeibi, Syria, March 16 - 17, 1962 - IDF artillery and aircraft killed at least 30 unarmed villagers;

-- Samu, Jordan, November 13, 1966 - the IDF destroyed 125 houses, a school, clinic and 15 houses in a nearby village killing 18 and wounded 54 in cold blood;

-- the Six-Day War, June 5 - 11, 1967 - IDF forces preemptively and without cause attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan; they massacred as many as 2000 helpless or captured Egyptian soldiers; killed about 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights and displaced more than 300,000 Palestinians who fled to the Jordan River's east bank along with others to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria;

-- the USS Liberty incident, June 8, 1967 - Israeli forces attacked and killed 34 Americans and wounded 171 in international waters; a Department of Defense inquiry whitewashed it as a case of "mistaken identity" despite clear knowledge it was a willful attack on a US naval intelligence vessel;

-- Rafah Refugee Camp, June 1967 - the IDF killed 23 Palestinians and buried them in a mass grave;

-- following the Six Day War, June 1967, 56 Palestinians were shot in cold blood trying to cross the Jordan River to the West Bank;

-- February 21, 1973, the IDF shot down Libya Airlines Flight 114 killing 106 passengers, including one American;

-- Hebron, February 25, 1994 - Baruch Goldstein massacred 29 praying Palestinians;

-- the First (1987 - 1992) and Second (2000 - 2005) Intifadas - thousands of Palestinians were killed and injured during IDF rampages against them;

-- the 1982 Lebanon invasion and occupation; 18,000 Lebanese and Palestinians were killed, including 3000 massacred in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps;

 

[Foxfyre]

Loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents IF he had a source that wasn't 100% pro Palestinian and 100% anti Israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on I think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-Israel mantra that it was Israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that Hamas continued to fire into Israeli neighborhoods, and that Israel agreed to the cease fire only if Hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And Israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

 

[JoeB131]

Loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents IF he had a source that wasn't 100% pro Palestinian and 100% amti Israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on I think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-Israel mantra that it was Israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that Hamas continued to fire into Israeli neighborhoods, and that Israel agreed to the cease fire only if Hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And Israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

Yeah, you can. Israel for being on someone else's land to start with....

 

[American Horse]

Loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents IF he had a source that wasn't 100% pro Palestinian and 100% amti Israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on I think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-Israel mantra that it was Israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that Hamas continued to fire into Israeli neighborhoods, and that Israel agreed to the cease fire only if Hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And Israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

Yeah, you can. Israel for being on someone else's land to start with....

Once there is war you can forget the status-quo-ante and to the victor go the spoils.

 

[Foxfyre]

Loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents IF he had a source that wasn't 100% pro Palestinian and 100% amti Israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on I think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-Israel mantra that it was Israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that Hamas continued to fire into Israeli neighborhoods, and that Israel agreed to the cease fire only if Hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And Israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

Yeah, you can. Israel for being on someone else's land to start with....

Really? Whose land was it? Who held the deed? From pictures I have seen in the mid 40's, it was pretty bleak, barren, and undeveloped at that time. And from what I read in the history books, it belonged to Great Britain who mostly willingly deeded it over to Israel for a homeland with the consent and blessings of the U.N.

There were Jews living in the area at the time and they were perfectly willing for any Arabs also peacefully living there to remain there once the State of Israel was chartered. Many did. It was only those who voluntarily left ahead of approaching Arab armies, and in full support of those Arab armies, who lost any ground.

So how do you figure that the tiny TINY State of Israel, a teensy speck amidst the huge area occupied by Arab peoples, is on land that belongs to somebody else?

 

[Billo_Really]

Loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents IF he had a source that wasn't 100% pro Palestinian and 100% amti Israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on I think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-Israel mantra that it was Israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that Hamas continued to fire into Israeli neighborhoods, and that Israel agreed to the cease fire only if Hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And Israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

The rocket attacks went down to virtually zero. The Israeli government admitted life became normal for that time. It all ended with Israel's commando raid.

BTW, GlobalResearch is not a "pro-Palestinian" website. They are non-aligned and non-partisan. Why would a Canadian media outlet be pro-anything in the Middle East? I always love it when you people have no argument or facts to refute what was said, so you try to discredit the source. Didn't anyone tell you, ad hominem's are not valid rebuttals and if you object to what was stated in my link, then the burden of proof is on you to show evidence to the contrary in order to prove your objection is not frivolous.

 

[Billo_Really]

Once there is war you can forget the status-quo-ante and to the victor go the spoils.

I'm sorry, but that has been illegal since WWII ended.

 

[sealadaigh]

I can find no basis for the dispute between Palestine and Israel involving religion in any regard. The Muslim religion may be a factor in the motives of the Palestinian leadership, but it is their behavor to which I think right thinking people object, and not their religion.

I don't want to be accused of flaming in this forum, so I'm going to ask you to provide some real, hard evidence that this conflict isn't religiously based. Why else would the two sides still be at such odds after all these years, if religion isn't the core of their disagreement?

And do you not call ANY of the actions taken by the Israelis as being over the line?

I've never said Israel has never overreacted or overreached or that there have not been individual Israelis who have behaved badly. In any substantial group of people there are going to be some people who get it wrong, act imprudently, or commit indefensible behavior. There are few humans on Earth, in fact, of whom that cannot be said.

But there is nothing in Israel's policy and never has been referring to any religion as being unacceptable or illegal or disallowed. Muslim mosques exist in perfect peace within Israel and Arab Muslims serve on the Israeli Knesset. There is no record of Israel ever taking the position that another soveriegn nation had no right to exist and should be obliterated from the face of the Earth.

Nor is the fact that the Palestinian leadership Muslim any factor whatsoever in Israel's response to the Palestinians.

It is the behavior, stated intent, and unacceptable terrorism committed by the Palestinian leadership that creates the conflict. Not anybody's religion. I already said, the Muslim religion may be a factor in Arab hatred of Israel. But it is not hatred of Jews that is the issue but the behavior of the Palestinians that causes the conflict.

Read over some of the commentary posted at this site and then see if you can find anything remotely similar stated by Israeli leaders:
Hamas in Their Own Words

i had asked you for your sources earlier and you neglected to name them. now you give us ADL.

didn't you criticize loinboy for his use of bias sites.

also, i would really like you to define "terrorism" in generaal terms so we know what you are talking about. i don't like the word. perhaps a terrorist is one who lacks the funds or support to build artillery and tanks and bombers.

as or me, as i have said, i do not use the word, but i have seen it used referencing israeli settlers, which comprise what? ten percent of israeli citizens? ifteen percent of jewish israeli citizens. imagine that percentage of arab or muslim "terrorists."

i am just having a hard time figuring out any point you are making, other than you have a blind allegiance to israel. really, help me out by telling me where you get some of your info.

i have no problem at all telling you where i get mine...usually a mainstream jewish newspaper or publication for whatever fact there is (i would use al jazeera but jewish people object to it, even though it is a fine source of info). and then i begin to check things out from objective sources like wiki to link to the pertinent info from other sources. people will criticise wiki, but it really is pretty good. CIA factbook is pretty good too. documents and treaties. i really don't need anyone to tell me what my opinion should be, but i do read opinion pieces also, from both sides o the issue.

 

[sealadaigh]

loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents if he had a source that wasn't 100% pro palestinian and 100% amti israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on i think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-israel mantra that it was israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that hamas continued to fire into israeli neighborhoods, and that israel agreed to the cease fire only if hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

yeah, you can. Israel for being on someone else's land to start with....

really? Whose land was it? Who held the deed? From pictures i have seen in the mid 40's, it was pretty bleak, barren, and undeveloped at that time. And from what i read in the history books, it belonged to great britain who mostly willingly deeded it over to israel for a homeland with the consent and blessings of the u.n.

There were jews living in the area at the time and they were perfectly willing for any arabs also peacefully living there to remain there once the state of israel was chartered. Many did. It was only those who voluntarily left ahead of approaching arab armies, and in full support of those arab armies, who lost any ground.

So how do you figure that the tiny tiny state of israel, a teensy speck amidst the huge area occupied by arab peoples, is on land that belongs to somebody else?

sources!!!

 

[Foxfyre]

Loinboy's list might prompt somebody to check out the incidents IF he had a source that wasn't 100% pro Palestinian and 100% amti Israeli. But since he doesn't, just consider the source and move on I think.

I always shake my head in amazement at the anti-Israel mantra that it was Israel who broke the 2008 cease fire. Those saying that never ever mention the rockets that Hamas continued to fire into Israeli neighborhoods, and that Israel agreed to the cease fire only if Hamas stopped such terrorist activities. And Israel was also on record that it would not allow such attacks to go unpunished.

So who is the villain there? Ya'll can make the call.

The rocket attacks went down to virtually zero. The Israeli government admitted life became normal for that time. It all ended with Israel's commando raid.

BTW, GlobalResearch is not a "pro-Palestinian" website. They are non-aligned and non-partisan. Why would a Canadian media outlet be pro-anything in the Middle East? I always love it when you people have no argument or facts to refute what was said, so you try to discredit the source. Didn't anyone tell you, ad hominem's are not valid rebuttals and if you object to what was stated in my link, then the burden of proof is on you to show evidence to the contrary in order to prove your objection is not frivolous.

I'll need a reliable source for the Israeli government EVER saying life is normal re Hamas let alone in the 2008 period. And if you can find me a single anti-Palestinian or pro-Israel article anywhere on the GlobalResearch site, I'll reconsider my opinion about that. I tried and couldn't.

 

[SayMyName]

Actually, it was the lack of international support, then the lack of American support, that finally did the apartheid regime in. I suspect that, though there is a lack of international support for Israel, the one missing element, is the same of American. Until that happens, I suspect there to be little if any change under the current circumstances.

 

[sealadaigh]

Maybe would could confine the discussion to the most recent incarnation of Israel which began in 1948 when one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force or arms on the majority of Palestinians?

Israel occupies 8000 square miles with a population of just over 6 miliion people--approximately the same number the Nazis murdered--and 20% of that population is Arab. Israel would fit into the State of Florida eight times.

Surely there is enough charity in the world to allow the Israelis such a tiny tract of land for the only homeland the Jews have ever had or will likely ever have?

Edited.

are you suggesting that organizations have a right to a homeland?

maybe you could just make a general statement about what you belive is right for the jewish people that you could apply to all peoples. i can work with that. it seems though that a lot of people are being tarred with the "anti-semitic" brush because they want to treat jewish people equally and not exceptionally.

really, why exactly did and why exactly do the jewish people have a right to a homeland anywhere, let alone the mideast.
Edited.

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe would could confine the discussion to the most recent incarnation of Israel which began in 1948 when one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force or arms on the majority of Palestinians?

Israel occupies 8000 square miles with a population of just over 6 miliion people--approximately the same number the Nazis murdered--and 20% of that population is Arab. Israel would fit into the State of Florida eight times.

Surely there is enough charity in the world to allow the Israelis such a tiny tract of land for the only homeland the Jews have ever had or will likely ever have?

are you suggesting that organisations have a right to a homeland?

maybe you could just make a general statement about what you belive is right for the jewish people that you could apply to all peoples. i can work with that. it seems though that a lot of people are being tarred with the "anti-semitic" brush because they want to treat jewish people equally and not exceptionally.

really, why exactly did and why exactly do the jewish people have a right to a homeland anywhere, let alone the mideast.

Okay, let's go with the United Nations giving it to them as a payoff for the entire free world looking the other way as Hitler murdered six million Jews. And that would include most of the Arab nations who cooperated with Himmler and other Nazi leaders in what history records as the North Africa Holocaust in which the Jews were targeted for expulsion from or murder in those countries.

Where would the Jews go after the war? Back to Germany that had murdered so many; where their property had been confiscated or destroyed? To Russia where some of the most viscious pograms had been carried out against them? Or to some other place where they may or may not be denied their rights and/or persecuted in other ways because they were Jews?

 

[georgephillip]

"Hamas in Their Own Words

"We regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Muslim and Arab blood…We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs."

Hamas in Their Own Words

At the end of WWII the US took over assorted strategic assets of the bankrupt British Empire.
After the six-day war in 1967, Israel became the prime US strategic asset in the Middle East.
The Arabs never had any doubt about Lord Balfour's declartion in 1917 which happily coincided with the British navy's switch from coal to oil to power its fleets:

"Following the absorption of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, the British set about shoring up their rule by the tried and true strategy of pitting ethnic group against ethnic group, tribe against tribe, and religion against religion.

"When British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour issued his famous 1917 Declaration guaranteeing a 'homeland' for the Jewish people in Palestine, he was less concerned with righting a two thousand year old wrong than creating divisions that would serve growing British interests in the Middle East.

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland' in Palestine meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,” he said, 'a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'”

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas today if one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine had not inflicted a Jewish state upon their neighbors in 1948.

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF

 

[Billo_Really]

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas today if one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine had not inflicted a Jewish state upon their neighbors in 1948.

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas if Israel's Mossad hadn't of funded (and supported) them for a period of time in the beginning.

Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".

That's quite a hoot!

 

[Foxfyre]

In my opinion, I have posted no data that that is is not common knowledge to most people with an Eighth grade education.

But if it is a big deal to you, even though you have not required links or verification for those opposed to Israel, I will declare everything I have posted in this thread to be my opinion and not statements of fact.

That should allow me to have a conversation with people without this becoming a mishmash of cut and paste with nobody happy with the sources used. I will try to provide a source for anything somebody really has a question about or chooses to challenge with their own sources.

 

[georgephillip]

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas today if one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine had not inflicted a Jewish state upon their neighbors in 1948.

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas if Israel's Mossad hadn't of funded (and supported) them for a period of time in the beginning.

Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".

That's quite a hoot!

Chomsky has also claimed that Arab Nationalists like Nasser were seen as the primary threat to US control of Middle Eastern oil during the years that followed WWII. Islamic fundamentalists were seen by the West as a weapon to use against secular/leftist Arabs who wanted control of their natural resources and the independent modernization that would bring.

Hamas was a useful tool in this agenda in Gaza:

"The Islamists set up orphanages and health clinics, as well as a network of schools, workshops which created employment for women as well as system of financial aid to the poor. And in 1978, they created an 'Islamic University' in Gaza. 'The military authority was convinced that these activities would weaken both the PLO and the leftist organizations in Gaza.' At the end of 1992, there were six hundred mosques in Gaza.

"Thanks to Israel’s intelligence agency Mossad (Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks) , the Islamists were allowed to reinforce their presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, the members of Fatah (Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine) and the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression."

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad

 

[Foxfyre]

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas today if one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine had not inflicted a Jewish state upon their neighbors in 1948.

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas if Israel's Mossad hadn't of funded (and supported) them for a period of time in the beginning.

Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".

That's quite a hoot!

Chomsky has also claimed that Arab Nationalists like Nasser were seen as the primary threat to US control of Middle Eastern oil during the years that followed WWII. Islamic fundamentalists were seen by the West as a weapon to use against secular/leftist Arabs who wanted control of their natural resources and the independent modernization that would bring.

Hamas was a useful tool in this agenda in Gaza:

"The Islamists set up orphanages and health clinics, as well as a network of schools, workshops which created employment for women as well as system of financial aid to the poor. And in 1978, they created an 'Islamic University' in Gaza. 'The military authority was convinced that these activities would weaken both the PLO and the leftist organizations in Gaza.' At the end of 1992, there were six hundred mosques in Gaza.

"Thanks to Israel’s intelligence agency Mossad (Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks) , the Islamists were allowed to reinforce their presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, the members of Fatah (Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine) and the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression."

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad

You won't find any ihformation at the Globalresearch site that supports Israel's position about anything or that criticizes the Palestinian position about anything which makes it suspect for any fair treatment of this subject, But for some really good rebuttals, if you would accept an equally prejudicial site, I would refer you to the Jewish Virtual Library.

 

[Billo_Really]

You won't find any ihformation at the Globalresearch site that supports Israel's position about anything or that criticizes the Palestinian position about anything which makes it suspect for any fair treatment of this subject, But for some really good rebuttals, if you would accept an equally prejudicial site, I would refer you to the Jewish Virtual Library.

Israel has enough people publishing their kind of propaganda, GR gets out what they don't tell you. And they don't criticize Israel for "anything", they publish articles that criticize Israel for things it should be criticized for. Show me something they said that isn't true.

 

[georgephillip]

It's worth remembering there would be no Hamas if Israel's Mossad hadn't of funded (and supported) them for a period of time in the beginning.

That's quite a hoot!

Chomsky has also claimed that Arab Nationalists like Nasser were seen as the primary threat to US control of Middle Eastern oil during the years that followed WWII. Islamic fundamentalists were seen by the West as a weapon to use against secular/leftist Arabs who wanted control of their natural resources and the independent modernization that would bring.

Hamas was a useful tool in this agenda in Gaza:

"The Islamists set up orphanages and health clinics, as well as a network of schools, workshops which created employment for women as well as system of financial aid to the poor. And in 1978, they created an 'Islamic University' in Gaza. 'The military authority was convinced that these activities would weaken both the PLO and the leftist organizations in Gaza.' At the end of 1992, there were six hundred mosques in Gaza.

"Thanks to Israel’s intelligence agency Mossad (Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks) , the Islamists were allowed to reinforce their presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, the members of Fatah (Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine) and the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression."

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad

You won't find any ihformation at the Globalresearch site that supports Israel's position about anything or that criticizes the Palestinian position about anything which makes it suspect for any fair treatment of this subject, But for some really good rebuttals, if you would accept an equally prejudicial site, I would refer you to the Jewish Virtual Library.

Sites like GlobalResearch feature writers with perspectives you aren't likely to find in corporate controlled media. GR articles often present historical evidence that isn't readily accessible elsewhere and allow the readers to draw their own conclusions about who deserves their support or criticism.

For example, in loinboy's link, fragments of Ahmed Yassin's history is presented:

"Ahmed Yassin was in prison when, the Oslo accords (Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government) were signed in September 1993. The Hamas had rejected Oslo outright. But at that time, 70% of Palestinians had condemned the attacks on Israeli civilians.

"Yassin did everything in his power to undermine the Oslo accords. Even prior to Prime Minister Rabin’s death, he had the support of the Israeli government. The latter was very reluctant to implement the peace agreement.

"The Hamas then launched a carefully timed campaign of attacks against civilians, one day before the meeting between Palestinian and Israeli negotiators, regarding the formal recognition of Israel by the National Palestinian Council.

"These events were largely instrumental in the formation of a Right wing Israeli government following the May 1996 elections.

"Quite unexpectedly, Prime Minister Netanyahu ordered Sheik Ahmed Yassin to be released from prison ('on humanitarian grounds') where he was serving a life sentence. Meanwhile, Netanyahu, together with President Bill Clinton, was putting pressure on Arafat to control the Hamas.

"In fact, Netanyahu knew that he could rely, once more, on the Islamists to sabotage the Oslo accords. Worse still: after having expelled Yassin to Jordan, Prime Minister Netanyahu allowed him to return to Gaza, where he was welcomed triumphantly as a hero in October 1997."

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad

Any organization that reveals the deception and inhumanity of Hamas, Netanyahu, and Clinton doesn't seem particularly biased, imho.