" Any N. American game animal, <2 shots, .22 Hornet".

[sealybobo]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

what about a bear charging close to you? would you be so confident then with your 22?

 

[westwall]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

what about a bear charging close to you? would you be so confident then with your 22?

Sure, oh mr prison is such a good shot he could bank that little .22 off the eye socket and have it curve around the pituitary to hit the medulla...the guys a legend in his own mind.

 

[sealybobo]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

what about a bear charging close to you? would you be so confident then with your 22?

Sure, oh mr prison is such a good shot he could bank that little .22 off the eye socket and have it curve around the pituitary to hit the medulla...the guys a legend in his own mind.

and if he is in a tree stand and has the ability to shoot several times most likely the bear is going to run and shot 3 times with a small caliber gun suffer and idiots never going to find it.

 

[Camp]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

What do you mean by "there's no such thing as a 5 rd derringer"? Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[WinterBorn]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

Your post talks about hunting any North American game "...under conditions of fair chase..." and then you say "Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks".

Until the SHTF situation actually happens, all hunting of game animals should be ruled by sportsmanship. If you are not going to considerable efforts to make a quick, humane kill, then you should not be hunting. Those "hunters" who think wounding an animal is acceptable should have their ass kicked.

 

[sealybobo]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

What do you mean by "there's no such thing as a 5 rd derringer"? Am I misunderstanding something?

No No Google 5 shot derringer fits in the palm of my hand

 

[9thIDdoc]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Actually there are several single-shot weapons of decent caliber that I'd rather have for combat/survival situations than an M-4. I've taken a lot of game with single shots and carried one into combat. Last time I checked I was still alive. Maybe you would do better posting about something you know something about.

 

[sealybobo]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

Your post talks about hunting any North American game "...under conditions of fair chase..." and then you say "Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks".

Until the SHTF situation actually happens, all hunting of game animals should be ruled by sportsmanship. If you are not going to considerable efforts to make a quick, humane kill, then you should not be hunting. Those "hunters" who think wounding an animal is acceptable should have their ass kicked.

or bitten by a shark mauled by a bear attacked by a lion or pitbulls. this is why I say sometimes I feel more compassion towards animals that I do humans

 

[Ringel05]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Actually there are several single-shot weapons of decent caliber that I'd rather have for combat/survival situations than an M-4. I've taken a lot of game with single shots and carried one into combat. Last time I checked I was still alive. Maybe you would do better posting about something you know something about.

Yes he should, something like dropping soap in the prison showers........

 

[sealybobo]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

 

[WinterBorn]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

Look at the Thompson Center Encore. It is a break action single shot, so it works the same for lefties and for righties. And for a $250 or so you can buy another barrel in a different caliber. They are easier on the shoulder (due to stock design) and very accurate.

 

[sealybobo]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

Look at the Thompson Center Encore. It is a break action single shot, so it works the same for lefties and for righties. And for a $250 or so you can buy another barrel in a different caliber. They are easier on the shoulder (due to stock design) and very accurate.

god I hate single shot why would I want to do that to myself?

 

[WinterBorn]

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

Look at the Thompson Center Encore. It is a break action single shot, so it works the same for lefties and for righties. And for a $250 or so you can buy another barrel in a different caliber. They are easier on the shoulder (due to stock design) and very accurate.

god I hate single shot why would I want to do that to myself?

You asked about a rifle for shooting deer at significant distances. If you miss with the first shot, what are your chances with the second shot at a moving target?

If you learn the art of shooting, the single shot is a better rifle. Shorter, with the same barrel length, or of the same length with a longer barrel. I have never understood those who hate teh single shot rifle.

 

[WinterBorn]

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

Look at the Thompson Center Encore. It is a break action single shot, so it works the same for lefties and for righties. And for a $250 or so you can buy another barrel in a different caliber. They are easier on the shoulder (due to stock design) and very accurate.

god I hate single shot why would I want to do that to myself?

The Encore is a very reliable and very, very accurate rifle. Exactly what would your be doing to yourself?

 

[prison/con.net]

there's no reason whatsoever to waste your time and money on a single shot.Anything that single shots (or bolt actions) can' do in the field, the autorifles can do, and the autos can do lots of things that the single shots and bolt actions can never hope to achieve. The autos do it for less money, too, cause autorifle users are practical and bolt gun and single shot users are not. The gun makers know this and stick it to you. So you have to buy 2-3 rifles, just because you were too stupid to get an autorifle in the first place, or too big a snob/sucker

 

[Camp]

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

Look at the Thompson Center Encore. It is a break action single shot, so it works the same for lefties and for righties. And for a $250 or so you can buy another barrel in a different caliber. They are easier on the shoulder (due to stock design) and very accurate.

god I hate single shot why would I want to do that to myself?

The Encore is a very reliable and very, very accurate rifle. Exactly what would your be doing to yourself?

Well, some people don't ever get the pleasure of hunting with black powder or bow, so why would they get what hunting with a single shot rifle is all about?

 

[WinterBorn]

there's no reason whatsoever to waste your time and money on a single shot.Anything that single shotss (or bolt actions) can' do in the field, the autorifles can do, and the autos can do lots of things that the single shots and bolt actions can never hope to achieve, and the autos do it for less money, too. So you have to buy 2-3 rifles, just because you were too stupid to get an autorifle in the first place, or too big a snob/sucker

I use a Ruger #1 as my main deer rifle. I have yet to lose an animal for lack of a follow-up shot.

Mine rifle has a 22" bbl, but the overall length is about that of a bolt action with an 18" bbl. So I get the benefits of a longer barrel while having a quick handling, well balanced carbine length gun.

And I happen to appreciate the beauty of a well made rifle. Perhaps you like plastic and need lots of rounds. I don't. Perhaps you only want 1 rifle. I don't.

It is not about stupid. It is about enjoying the options I have with multiple weapons and about appreciating a quality rifle.

 

[WinterBorn]

there's no reason whatsoever to waste your time and money on a single shot.Anything that single shots (or bolt actions) can' do in the field, the autorifles can do, and the autos can do lots of things that the single shots and bolt actions can never hope to achieve. The autos do it for less money, too, cause autorifle users are practical and bolt gun and single shot users are not. The gun makers know this and stick it to you. So you have to buy 2-3 rifles, just because you were too stupid to get an autorifle in the first place, or too big a snob/sucker

I have 5 rifles that are suitable for deer hunting. I choose the Ruger more often than any of them. Of the rifles I have that work for deer hunting I have a single shot, a bolt action, 2 lever actions and a semi-auto. Maybe you want only one rifle. But I guess when you have to hide it from the law, it helps to keep the numbers down.

 

[WinterBorn]

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

I'm left handed I just looked them up and it seems like it's going to cost me more because I'm left handed?

Look at the Thompson Center Encore. It is a break action single shot, so it works the same for lefties and for righties. And for a $250 or so you can buy another barrel in a different caliber. They are easier on the shoulder (due to stock design) and very accurate.

god I hate single shot why would I want to do that to myself?

The Encore is a very reliable and very, very accurate rifle. Exactly what would your be doing to yourself?

Well, some people don't ever get the pleasure of hunting with black powder or bow, so why would they get what hunting with a single shot rifle is all about?

There is a greater challenge with black powder or a bow. That appeals to some and not to others.

 

[westwall]

there's no reason whatsoever to waste your time and money on a single shot.Anything that single shots (or bolt actions) can' do in the field, the autorifles can do, and the autos can do lots of things that the single shots and bolt actions can never hope to achieve. The autos do it for less money, too, cause autorifle users are practical and bolt gun and single shot users are not. The gun makers know this and stick it to you. So you have to buy 2-3 rifles, just because you were too stupid to get an autorifle in the first place, or too big a snob/sucker

Waste? Single shot rifles are used by HUNTERS. Pissants who are incompetent resort to auto's. There's a huge difference between the two.