Another set of lies by Obama

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Exactly why i have no confidence in them doing health care reform.

The only way I would have confidence is if the senate, house, white house, and judiciary branch all have to partake in any govt sponsored health care option. Put them in the very system they plan to create for the "poor" who cant afford healthcare and I will trust them not to screw it up....but if they keep their super duper taxpayer funded healthcare they have now there is no way i'm trusting them.

You know in HR3200 there is a section exempting the congress from partaking in a public option? Dirtbags I tell ya

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

From your link:

Democrats exempt themselves from own 'reform'

By Chelsea Schilling
WorldNetDaily
At the same time, Page 114 of the act specifically exempts members of Congress from the public plan.

Page 114 from the bill:

114
based Health Insurance Exchange, with respect to 1
such State (or States). 2
(2) TERMINATION; HEALTH INSURANCE EX-3
CHANGE RESUMPTION OF FUNCTIONS.—The Com-4
missioner may terminate the approval (for some or 5
all functions) of a State-based Health Insurance Ex-6
change under this section if the Commissioner deter-7
mines that such Exchange no longer meets the re-8
quirements of subsection (b) or is no longer capable 9
of carrying out such functions in accordance with 10
the requirements of this subtitle. In lieu of termi-11
nating such approval, the Commissioner may tempo-12
rarily assume some or all functions of the State- 13
based Health Insurance Exchange until such time as 14
the Commissioner determines the State-based 15
Health Insurance Exchange meets such require-16
ments of subsection (b) and is capable of carrying 17
out such functions in accordance with the require-18
ments of this subtitle. 19
(3) EFFECTIVENESS.—The ceasing or termi-20
nation of a State-based Health Insurance Exchange 21
under this subsection shall be effective in such time 22
and manner as the Commissioner shall specify. 23
(d) RETENTIONOFAUTHORITY.— 24

Please highlight the part that says that congress has exempted themselves!!!

You would think these CON$ would have sense enough to check their wing Nut sources by now especially WingNutsDaily.

Huh thats not in my link...I think you are confusing me with someone else. This is the link I posted (you can verify this in your own quote of me)

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

 

[edthecynic]

Exactly why i have no confidence in them doing health care reform.

The only way I would have confidence is if the senate, house, white house, and judiciary branch all have to partake in any govt sponsored health care option. Put them in the very system they plan to create for the "poor" who cant afford healthcare and I will trust them not to screw it up....but if they keep their super duper taxpayer funded healthcare they have now there is no way i'm trusting them.

You know in HR3200 there is a section exempting the congress from partaking in a public option? Dirtbags I tell ya

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

From your link:

Democrats exempt themselves from own 'reform'

By Chelsea Schilling
WorldNetDaily
At the same time, Page 114 of the act specifically exempts members of Congress from the public plan.

Let me try a different approach. Let's ignore the fact that there is no such exemption on page 114.

Let's assume the CON$ are right about the gov eliminating private insurance. Wouldn't that mean congress is eliminating their own private policies???
SO, how can congress keep its own private insurance, if private insurance will no longer exist????????
If private policies exist for congress to exempt themselves to buy, then private policies will survive and be there for others to buy.

 

[Immanuel]

How is it hostile? Insurance failed and had to be bailed out. AIG? Merrill Lynch? Goldman Sachs? Bueller??? Anyone?

Um, those are banks and financial institutions, not Health Insurers. The health insurance industry is by my understanding doing well or at least as well as can be expected in today's economy.

The issue is not that Health Insurers are failing, but rather that they are raking us over the coals and the Medical Profession would claim the same thing the other way. Health Insurers are part of the reason that medical services are so expensive and what we should be doing is finding a way to lower the cost.

By the way, maybe you can give us a list of Health Insurers that have failed recently? I don't know of any.

Immie

AIG is major insurer/reinsurer, too big to fail, remember? All the rest are all interlaced with the investments insurance makes with the money they take in. Paying for healthcare is not an insurer's primary function, it's making investments. And all insurance is interrelated. You're not aware of how this stuff works I see.

AIG is a FINANCIAL INSTITUTION with holdings in the insurance business, but I'm not certain (think maybe we should check your information?) that their holdings are in the Health Insurance industry. I believe they mostly do property and casualty type insurance.

Health Insurers are companies like AETNA, United Healthcare, Kaiser Permanente, Blue Cross/Blue Shield etc. I don't believe any of them have failed.

Immie

 

[veritas]

All insurance is connected. If AIG went down, they would have all come down. It's not about the type of insurance, it's about the money.

 

[rdean]

Not ANOTHER set of lies. I'm still looking at the first ones:

Death panels
unplug grandma
end Medicare

 

[Immanuel]

All insurance is connected. If AIG went down, they would have all come down. It's not about the type of insurance, it's about the money.

Maybe you can provide some evidence that the health insurers received bailout money as you claimed?

Gotta link?

Immie

 

[logical4u]

I always love when CON$ argue both sides of an issue.

First they argue the public option will be more expensive because the gov does everything more expensive than the private sector.

But then they argue the public option will be so inexpensive the private sector insurance will disappear because it will not be able to compete because the gov does not have to make a profit.

So we have the CON$ arguing that gov run health care will be both cheaper and more expensive at the same time.

The gov can use taxpayer money to eliminate the competition ... paybacks owed to supporters that are not in the medical field).

But once the gov gets more expensive, the private sector can enter the market by offering the same coverage as the gov at a cheaper price.

So there is a limit to what the gov can charge.

If the competition is eliminated and it is illegal to change plans after you have been forced onto gov 'insurance', there is NO GOING BACK TO PRIVATE INSURANCE. There will be no limit to what the gov can charge.

The politicians will claim it is for 'the children', so they can raise the rates like they have for education (and look how that has improved since the fed gov has taken over that).

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Exactly why i have no confidence in them doing health care reform.

The only way I would have confidence is if the senate, house, white house, and judiciary branch all have to partake in any govt sponsored health care option. Put them in the very system they plan to create for the "poor" who cant afford healthcare and I will trust them not to screw it up....but if they keep their super duper taxpayer funded healthcare they have now there is no way i'm trusting them.

You know in HR3200 there is a section exempting the congress from partaking in a public option? Dirtbags I tell ya

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

From your link:

Democrats exempt themselves from own 'reform'

By Chelsea Schilling
WorldNetDaily
At the same time, Page 114 of the act specifically exempts members of Congress from the public plan.

Let me try a different approach. Let's ignore the fact that there is no such exemption on page 114.

Let's assume the CON$ are right about the gov eliminating private insurance. Wouldn't that mean congress is eliminating their own private policies???
SO, how can congress keep its own private insurance, if private insurance will no longer exist????????
If private policies exist for congress to exempt themselves to buy, then private policies will survive and be there for others to buy.

Why are you quoting me? I wasn't talking about section 114 I was talking about the dems in congress refusing to put themselves on the public plan. Congressional democrats have shot down several proposals that would require them to be on any public option they put in place.

Congressional Democrats want to stay exempt from having to go on the same option they will provide for those who can't afford coverage. I say they should be forced to be on it, that way we know the poor will get good care and not get screwed over.

The most recent example of the dems speaking out against such a proposal, all but 3 democrats voted against it. Their Own Medicine - WSJ.com

 

[veritas]

All insurance is connected. If AIG went down, they would have all come down. It's not about the type of insurance, it's about the money.

Maybe you can provide some evidence that the health insurers received bailout money as you claimed?

Gotta link?

Immie

I never claimed anything like that. I mentioned AIG and the other financial houses.

 

[Immanuel]

AIG Corporate Information - About AIG - Pre-Septemeber 2008: The AIG Crisis

Over the years, AIG built upon its premier global franchises in life and general insurance by expanding into a range of financial services businesses. One of these, created in 1987, was AIG Financial Products Corp. (AIGFP), a company that engaged as principal in a wide variety of financial transactions for a global client base. In 1998, AIGFP began to sell credit default swaps to other financial institutions to protect against the default of certain securities. At the time, many of these securities were rated AAA, the highest rating possible. However, in late 2007, as the U.S. residential mortgage market began to deteriorate, the valuation of these securities declined severely. As a result, AIG recorded significant unrealized market valuation losses, especially on AIGFP’s credit default swap portfolio, which led to substantial cash requirements.

The collapse of AIG in their own words. Please note: I see nothing at all about Health Insurance on that page and note the reasons behind their collapse.

Immie

 

[edthecynic]

Exactly why i have no confidence in them doing health care reform.

The only way I would have confidence is if the senate, house, white house, and judiciary branch all have to partake in any govt sponsored health care option. Put them in the very system they plan to create for the "poor" who cant afford healthcare and I will trust them not to screw it up....but if they keep their super duper taxpayer funded healthcare they have now there is no way i'm trusting them.

You know in HR3200 there is a section exempting the congress from partaking in a public option? Dirtbags I tell ya

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

From your link:



Page 114 from the bill:

114
based Health Insurance Exchange, with respect to 1
such State (or States). 2
(2) TERMINATION; HEALTH INSURANCE EX-3
CHANGE RESUMPTION OF FUNCTIONS.—The Com-4
missioner may terminate the approval (for some or 5
all functions) of a State-based Health Insurance Ex-6
change under this section if the Commissioner deter-7
mines that such Exchange no longer meets the re-8
quirements of subsection (b) or is no longer capable 9
of carrying out such functions in accordance with 10
the requirements of this subtitle. In lieu of termi-11
nating such approval, the Commissioner may tempo-12
rarily assume some or all functions of the State- 13
based Health Insurance Exchange until such time as 14
the Commissioner determines the State-based 15
Health Insurance Exchange meets such require-16
ments of subsection (b) and is capable of carrying 17
out such functions in accordance with the require-18
ments of this subtitle. 19
(3) EFFECTIVENESS.—The ceasing or termi-20
nation of a State-based Health Insurance Exchange 21
under this subsection shall be effective in such time 22
and manner as the Commissioner shall specify. 23
(d) RETENTIONOFAUTHORITY.— 24

Please highlight the part that says that congress has exempted themselves!!!

You would think these CON$ would have sense enough to check their wing Nut sources by now especially WingNutsDaily.

Huh thats not in my link...I think you are confusing me with someone else. This is the link I posted (you can verify this in your own quote of me)

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

Yes it is and you posted it specifically to support the false claim that congress exempted themselves. That was the ONLY story on the page you linked to about the exemption.

It was the very first story in the "LATEST NEWS" section near the bottom in the right center column. When you click on it to read the whole story you get the "proof" used to support the false claim.

So it is YOUR link!!!
You obviously never clicked on the story to see how they fabricated their false claim. You wanted to believe it so you took it on FAITH.

 

[Immanuel]

All insurance is connected. If AIG went down, they would have all come down. It's not about the type of insurance, it's about the money.

Maybe you can provide some evidence that the health insurers received bailout money as you claimed?

Gotta link?

Immie

I never claimed anything like that. I mentioned AIG and the other financial houses.

Really? Sure seems to me like you are claiming the institutions below were health insurers AND that they received bailout money.

Yes, they received bailout money. No, they are not health insurers.

Just in case you forgot the hostile takeover I mentioned was of the Health Insurance Industry.

Immie

How is it hostile? Insurance failed and had to be bailed out. AIG? Merrill Lynch? Goldman Sachs? Bueller??? Anyone?

 

[veritas]

AIG Corporate Information - About AIG - Pre-Septemeber 2008: The AIG Crisis

Over the years, AIG built upon its premier global franchises in life and general insurance by expanding into a range of financial services businesses. One of these, created in 1987, was AIG Financial Products Corp. (AIGFP), a company that engaged as principal in a wide variety of financial transactions for a global client base. In 1998, AIGFP began to sell credit default swaps to other financial institutions to protect against the default of certain securities. At the time, many of these securities were rated AAA, the highest rating possible. However, in late 2007, as the U.S. residential mortgage market began to deteriorate, the valuation of these securities declined severely. As a result, AIG recorded significant unrealized market valuation losses, especially on AIGFP’s credit default swap portfolio, which led to substantial cash requirements.

The collapse of AIG in their own words. Please note: I see nothing at all about Health Insurance on that page and note the reasons behind their collapse.

Immie

Yup. You just answered your own question.

 

[Immanuel]

AIG Corporate Information - About AIG - Pre-Septemeber 2008: The AIG Crisis

Over the years, AIG built upon its premier global franchises in life and general insurance by expanding into a range of financial services businesses. One of these, created in 1987, was AIG Financial Products Corp. (AIGFP), a company that engaged as principal in a wide variety of financial transactions for a global client base. In 1998, AIGFP began to sell credit default swaps to other financial institutions to protect against the default of certain securities. At the time, many of these securities were rated AAA, the highest rating possible. However, in late 2007, as the U.S. residential mortgage market began to deteriorate, the valuation of these securities declined severely. As a result, AIG recorded significant unrealized market valuation losses, especially on AIGFP’s credit default swap portfolio, which led to substantial cash requirements.

The collapse of AIG in their own words. Please note: I see nothing at all about Health Insurance on that page and note the reasons behind their collapse.

Immie

Yup. You just answered your own question.

You made the claim that the government bailed out the health insurance industry. By continuing to make this claim you are proving that you are either a fool or a liar. AIG had nothing to do with the health insurance industry.

Come on, step up to to plate and show where health insurance companies received bailout money.

Please.

Immie

 

[veritas]

You made the claim that the government bailed out the health insurance industry.

I said the government bailed out the insurance industry. You made the leap that I was being specific when I was being general.

You need to educate yourself on how the game is played and how insurance reinsures itself and reinvests. Otherwise you'll just be stuck on stupid.

 

[edthecynic]

Originally Posted by PLYMCO_PILGRIM Exactly why i have no confidence in them doing health care reform.

The only way I would have confidence is if the senate, house, white house, and judiciary branch all have to partake in any govt sponsored health care option. Put them in the very system they plan to create for the "poor" who cant afford healthcare and I will trust them not to screw it up....but if they keep their super duper taxpayer funded healthcare they have now there is no way i'm trusting them.

You know in HR3200 there is a section exempting the congress from partaking in a public option? Dirtbags I tell ya

From your link:

Democrats exempt themselves from own 'reform'

By Chelsea Schilling
WorldNetDaily
At the same time, Page 114 of the act specifically exempts members of Congress from the public plan.

Let me try a different approach. Let's ignore the fact that there is no such exemption on page 114.

Let's assume the CON$ are right about the gov eliminating private insurance. Wouldn't that mean congress is eliminating their own private policies???
SO, how can congress keep its own private insurance, if private insurance will no longer exist????????
If private policies exist for congress to exempt themselves to buy, then private policies will survive and be there for others to buy.

Why are you quoting me? I wasn't talking about section 114 I was talking about the dems in congress refusing to put themselves on the public plan. Congressional democrats have shot down several proposals that would require them to be on any public option they put in place.

Congressional Democrats want to stay exempt from having to go on the same option they will provide for those who can't afford coverage. I say they should be forced to be on it, that way we know the poor will get good care and not get screwed over.

The most recent example of the dems speaking out against such a proposal, all but 3 democrats voted against it. Their Own Medicine - WSJ.com

You said there was an exemption IN THE BILL.
Prove it!

And you failed to explain how they can take advantage of the nonexistent exemption if private insurance will no longer exist. Once private insurance is gone, they too will be forced into gov health care.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

From your link:



Page 114 from the bill:

Please highlight the part that says that congress has exempted themselves!!!

You would think these CON$ would have sense enough to check their wing Nut sources by now especially WingNutsDaily.

Huh thats not in my link...I think you are confusing me with someone else. This is the link I posted (you can verify this in your own quote of me)

The Kick Them All Out Project - Imposing our undeniable will on the government through the power of our votes!

Yes it is and you posted it specifically to support the false claim that congress exempted themselves. That was the ONLY story on the page you linked to about the exemption.

It was the very first story in the "LATEST NEWS" section near the bottom in the right center column. When you click on it to read the whole story you get the "proof" used to support the false claim.

So it is YOUR link!!!
You obviously never clicked on the story to see how they fabricated their false claim. You wanted to believe it so you took it on FAITH.

That link I posted was the site to get information on how to vote out EVERY incumbent in your district.....which is what I want to do...it was posted as my "solution" to these dingbats in congress not putting themselves on the public option as a mandatory thing.

I didn't post that link to support my claim that they are exempt.

Didn't obama say joining the public plan was voluntary???? Do you not believe obama to be telling the truth????? I am simply saying what obama said, that all americans are exempt from the public option.....and that i think this is wrong for congress. The congress should be forced onto the public option that way they do it right for the poor who will only have this option.

So you are calling me and president obama liars now?

 

[Immanuel]

You made the claim that the government bailed out the health insurance industry.

I said the government bailed out the insurance industry. You made the leap that I was being specific when I was being general.

You need to educate yourself on how the game is played and how insurance reinsures itself and reinvests. Otherwise you'll just be stuck on stupid.

You're full of shit!

Gotta a link? No, of course not.

You made the claim that each of those companies that were bailed out were Health Insurers and that the government bailed out the Health Insurance Companies. That is a lie. Health Insurance companies may and probably do reinsure, but they did not come close to receiving bailout money as you claimed. By the way, do you know what reinsurance is? Probably not! Here is the Wikipedia definition of reinsurance and it fits mine:

Reinsurance is a means by which an insurance company can protect itself with other insurance companies against the risk of losses. Individuals and corporations obtain insurance policies to provide protection for various risks (hurricanes, earthquakes, lawsuits, collisions, sickness and death, etc.). Reinsurers, in turn, provide insurance to insurance companies. The company requesting the cover is called the cedant and the reinsurer can be called the ceded, although the latter term is not in common use.

It is simply an insurance company BUYING insurance on its assets. The government did not bailout Health Insurers!

Every one of the companies you listed were financial instutions and not one of them was a Health Insurance Company, yet you magically made the leap that if the government bailed out financial institutions that meant they were bailing out the Health Insurance industry as well.

Immie

 

[DiveCon]

How is it hostile? Insurance failed and had to be bailed out. AIG? Merrill Lynch? Goldman Sachs? Bueller??? Anyone?

wait, i thought they were making "record profits"
WTF?

 

[DiveCon]

How is it hostile? Insurance failed and had to be bailed out. AIG? Merrill Lynch? Goldman Sachs? Bueller??? Anyone?

Um, those are banks and financial institutions, not Health Insurers. The health insurance industry is by my understanding doing well or at least as well as can be expected in today's economy.

The issue is not that Health Insurers are failing, but rather that they are raking us over the coals and the Medical Profession would claim the same thing the other way. Health Insurers are part of the reason that medical services are so expensive and what we should be doing is finding a way to lower the cost.

By the way, maybe you can give us a list of Health Insurers that have failed recently? I don't know of any.

Immie

AIG is major insurer/reinsurer, too big to fail, remember? All the rest are all interlaced with the investments insurance makes with the money they take in. Paying for healthcare is not an insurer's primary function, it's making investments. And all insurance is interrelated. You're not aware of how this stuff works I see.

but they dont do health insurace
and most of their failures were in the financial markets and not their insurance