And we are the richest nation on the planet???

[Againsheila]

Homeless find temporary haven in tent camps - CNN.com

Tent camps once associated mainly with the "Hoovervilles" of the Great Depression are springing up in places as varied as Sacramento, California; Nashville, Tennessee; Pinellas County, Florida; Providence, Rhode Island; and Seattle, Washington.

The camps have often led to standoffs between local governments that say the camps violate housing ordinances and homeless rights advocates who argue that people struggling to get back on their feet need a permanent place to stay.

There are no definitive numbers on how many people have taken to living in homeless camps. A recent annual report from the Department of Housing and Urban Development showed an increase in homelessness among families while overall rates of homelessness stayed roughly the same.

Does this bother anyone else?

Homelessness has not remained the same, they just don't see them to count them. I live in Federal way and we have no less than 3 tent cities. Only the homeless know where they are, when the cops find out, they come in and clean the place out "meaning taking all their possessions and trashing them". So the homeless usually remain quiet and out of sight as much as possible.

Handing out lunches to the homeless at the church, I can tell you that it's doubled in the few months since I started working there, and they've been handing out those lunches for a lot longer. Oh, and more and more families are starting to show up as well.

 

[VaYank5150]

Not everyone is 'capable' of being a CEO.. Not everyone is 'capable' of getting a date on their own... Not everyone is 'capable' of being a soldier... it does not inherently mean that the government does that for you or provides that assistance over the top for you, or provides that title for you

It is not saying I got mine and screw you... you and I and EVERYONE else is free to donate and help whomever they want out of the goodness of their heart and the freedom granted by government so that you can do it

You are not OWED it at the expense of someone else, purely for your existence... you do not get the power to donate that money of someone else, for someone else, for your choice in good feelings

But nice try

I am doing my best to keep my temper in place. Where did I post ANYWHERE that I feel anyone is owed anything by the government? I am talking about compassion. IF we are willing to spend billions on a bridge to nowhere, or on pig shit smell in Iowa, or billions on a surface to air missile defense shield that has yet to be proven to work, or to even put a man on the moon, then why can't we (our governmet spending our tax dollars) help out the less fortunate right here in the USA?

Nobody fucking exists to provide your fucking personal needs to you, or your fucking personal wants for you.... no person, no government, no community, etc... it is not a charge of the federal government, nor should it be... hell, it is not the charge of any government, nor should it be... it goes against the concept of freedom, P-E-R-I-O-D....

Do we need or should we support government paying for pig shit smell research??? Nope.. and you will not see me argue otherwise... EVER... Do we need spending on national defense, including defense capabilities against missiles?? Yes indeed AND it is a direct charge of the federal government....

Now the difference between say a road and your personal health or residence... that road can be used by anyone... your health cannot... a road is public domain.. your person, your residence, your health is not

And just because government has already grown to the level that it has and spends on crap it should not be spending on... that does not make the argument that it should also take over your personal needs and wants.... in fact it SHOULD be the argument that we should eliminate TONS of federal government expenses that the government has no business in

You want compassion.. promote voluntary charities... not forced wealth redistribution... that is what a person who loves and understands the concept of freedom and a free society would do

It is obvious to all that you are very passionate about your opinions on this matter and I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this issue with me, regardless of the fact that we may not see eye to eye on the issue. I have one last question. IF what you say is the proper way, and our government should not show compassion to it's poorest and weakest citizens, what would make us any different than any other third world country who's citizenry die by the thousands from hunger and starvation every year?

 

[AllieBaba]

We do show compassion to our homeless people. We provide them with food, if they care to apply for it. We provide the children and single parents with medical care.

I suppose VaYank's solution would be to either destroy them humanely, or force them into something akin to the poor houses of old.

The fact is, homeless people by and large choose to be homeless.

 

[VaYank5150]

We do show compassion to our homeless people. We provide them with food, if they care to apply for it. We provide the children and single parents with medical care.

I suppose VaYank's solution would be to either destroy them humanely, or force them into something akin to the poor houses of old.

The fact is, homeless people by and large choose to be homeless.

Making asinine statements about my ideas without asking me first, only shows what a clueless moron you are. And by the way, I would love to see your evidence that "homeless people by and large choose to be homeless". Do you have access to a study or poll of these people?

 

[DiamondDave]

I am doing my best to keep my temper in place. Where did I post ANYWHERE that I feel anyone is owed anything by the government? I am talking about compassion. IF we are willing to spend billions on a bridge to nowhere, or on pig shit smell in Iowa, or billions on a surface to air missile defense shield that has yet to be proven to work, or to even put a man on the moon, then why can't we (our governmet spending our tax dollars) help out the less fortunate right here in the USA?

Nobody fucking exists to provide your fucking personal needs to you, or your fucking personal wants for you.... no person, no government, no community, etc... it is not a charge of the federal government, nor should it be... hell, it is not the charge of any government, nor should it be... it goes against the concept of freedom, P-E-R-I-O-D....

Do we need or should we support government paying for pig shit smell research??? Nope.. and you will not see me argue otherwise... EVER... Do we need spending on national defense, including defense capabilities against missiles?? Yes indeed AND it is a direct charge of the federal government....

Now the difference between say a road and your personal health or residence... that road can be used by anyone... your health cannot... a road is public domain.. your person, your residence, your health is not

And just because government has already grown to the level that it has and spends on crap it should not be spending on... that does not make the argument that it should also take over your personal needs and wants.... in fact it SHOULD be the argument that we should eliminate TONS of federal government expenses that the government has no business in

You want compassion.. promote voluntary charities... not forced wealth redistribution... that is what a person who loves and understands the concept of freedom and a free society would do

It is obvious to all that you are very passionate about your opinions on this matter and I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this issue with me, regardless of the fact that we may not see eye to eye on the issue. I have one last question. IF what you say is the proper way, and our government should not show compassion to it's poorest and weakest citizens, what would make us any different than any other third world country who's citizenry die by the thousands from hunger and starvation every year?

The country is is a collection of individuals and states... not something with a soul (or whatever else you wish to call it) that can have a 'feeling' of empathy or compassion... nice try

What makes us different?? Are you seriously asking that?? Try the individual freedoms (the ones that entitlement junkies love to step all over in the name of wealth redistribution) that are protected by our governmental setup... You have your individual freedom to help anybody or any group you wish with your financial contributions, time, or whatever else... And if you do, I personally applaud you in those efforts... but those FEELINGS do not trump the fact that nobody is owed or entitled to something at the expense of someone else in a free society

 

[VaYank5150]

What makes us different?? Are you seriously asking that?? Try the individual freedoms (the ones that entitlement junkies love to step all over in the name of wealth redistribution) that are protected by our governmental setup... You have your individual freedom to help anybody or any group you wish with your financial contributions, time, or whatever else... And if you do, I personally applaud you in those efforts... but those FEELINGS do not trump the fact that nobody is owed or entitled to something at the expense of someone else in a free society

So, when Bush stepped all over our right to privacy, you were up in arms against him, I assume? And following up, so since in your opinion, we are a collection of individuals, are you against doing things for the "common good"? What is the point of being the "United States" if all of us simply want to be individuals, anyway?

 

[DiamondDave]

So, when Bush stepped all over our right to privacy, you were up in arms against him, I assume? And following up, so since in your opinion, we are a collection of individuals, are you against doing things for the "common good"? What is the point of being the "United States" if all of us simply want to be individuals, anyway?

but, but, but Booooooshh



You seriously need a history lesson.. and you seriously need to stop trying to divert when you have obviously had your argument thrashed like a red-headed step child

1) Show me an express right to privacy in the constitution
2) Show me one example where enemy communications intercepted during war required a domestic search warrant
3) Research the interception of wartime communications including capture of couriers, interception of HF radio signals, interception of Morse communications, interception of mail/telegram, and the list goes on

ENTITLEMENT to the individual in the name of the 'common good' is what you are talking about... the common good infers PUBLIC DOMAIN... your health, your health insurance, your hunger, your housing situation, etc ARE NOT FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN.. they are PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY... the government does not exist to take over your personal responsibilities for you

 

[VaYank5150]

I'll take just one. IF Bush was ONLY intercepting enemy communications, you would have a point. However, since that was NOT the case, you fail.

 

[DiamondDave]

I'll take just one. IF Bush was ONLY intercepting enemy communications, you would have a point. However, since that was NOT the case, you fail.

Cite case

 

[rightwinger]

1) Show me a right to privacy in the constitution

Check out the 4th Amendment sometime. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

2) Show me one example where enemy communications intercepted during war required a domestic search warrant

There is a difference in intercepting enemy communications there and here........see 4th Amendment

3) Research the interception of wartime communications including capture of couriers, interception of HF radio signals, interception of Morse communications, interception of mail/telegram, and the list goes on

There is a difference in intercepting communications there and here.....see 4th Amendment

 

[VaYank5150]

I'll take just one. IF Bush was ONLY intercepting enemy communications, you would have a point. However, since that was NOT the case, you fail.

Cite case

Under the Protect America Act of 2007, communications that begin or end in a foreign country may be wiretapped by the US government without supervision by the FISA Court. The Act removes from the definition of "electronic surveillance" in FISA any surveillance directed at a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States. As such, surveillance of these communications no longer requires a government application to, and order issuing from, the FISA Court.

Please point out where there has to be "probable cause" prior to requesting a wire tap from any judge.

 

[DiamondDave]

1) Show me a right to privacy in the constitution

Check out the 4th Amendment sometime. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

2) Show me one example where enemy communications intercepted during war required a domestic search warrant

There is a difference in intercepting enemy communications there and here........see 4th Amendment

3) Research the interception of wartime communications including capture of couriers, interception of HF radio signals, interception of Morse communications, interception of mail/telegram, and the list goes on

There is a difference in intercepting communications there and here.....see 4th Amendment

I suggest you actually try and understand what is written in the constitution you partisan hack

There is no inherent right to privacy, except that certain aspects of privacy are protected in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 9th amendments... these rights are very narrowly defined.... and specific in nature.. I.E. your home privacy is upheld when asked to quarter soldiers in your home... etc

And lest we not forget that interception of confirmed and possible enemy communication is a component of wartime operations and has precedent of such throughout the history of this country.. as already stated and shown numerous times with the history lessons of the different types of communications intercepted during different wars without ANY warrant... and lest we forget with war on a hidden terrorist, it is not just a specific battlefield and surrounding area that you patrol for communications...

And please show one instance of a criminal charge of anything outside of terrorist planning and action that came from one intercepted cell phone or phone conversation, obtained by the patriot act'



But again.. nice try at diverting the issue off of entitlement mantra and onto Boooooooosh... typical leftist tactic

 

[VaYank5150]

1) Show me a right to privacy in the constitution


And lest we not forget that interception of confirmed and possible enemy communication is a component of wartime operations and has precedent of such throughout the history of this country.. as already stated and shown numerous times with the history lessons of the different types of communications intercepted during different wars without ANY warrant... and lest we forget with war on a hidden terrorist, it is not just a specific battlefield and surrounding area that you patrol for communications...

When did we declare war, again?

 

[rightwinger]

I suggest you actually try and understand what is written in the constitution you partisan hack

Oh my God! ...I'm a partisan hack

There is no inherent right to privacy, except that certain aspects of privacy are protected in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 9th amendments... these rights are very narrowly defined.... and specific in nature.. I.E. your home privacy is upheld when asked to quarter soldiers in your home... etc

Yea right...."no inherent right to privacy" except for all those areas of the Constitution protecting your rights to privacy.

And lest we not forget that interception of confirmed and possible enemy communication is a component of wartime operations and has precedent of such throughout the history of this country.. as already stated and shown numerous times with the history lessons of the different types of communications intercepted during different wars without ANY warrant... and lest we forget with war on a hidden terrorist, it is not just a specific battlefield and surrounding area that you patrol for communications...

A little problem is the declaration of war. Typically, you have to declare martial law prior to suspending idividual freedoms. Your problem comes with the interception of all communications in an attempt to find one bad guy. Kind of like searching everyones house in the hopes of finding one lawbreaker

And please show one instance of a criminal charge of anything outside of terrorist planning and action that came from one intercepted cell phone or phone conversation, obtained by the patriot act'

I thought the patriot act was to get around this stuff

 

[Emma]

Homeless find temporary haven in tent camps - CNN.com

Tent camps once associated mainly with the "Hoovervilles" of the Great Depression are springing up in places as varied as Sacramento, California; Nashville, Tennessee; Pinellas County, Florida; Providence, Rhode Island; and Seattle, Washington.

The camps have often led to standoffs between local governments that say the camps violate housing ordinances and homeless rights advocates who argue that people struggling to get back on their feet need a permanent place to stay.

There are no definitive numbers on how many people have taken to living in homeless camps. A recent annual report from the Department of Housing and Urban Development showed an increase in homelessness among families while overall rates of homelessness stayed roughly the same.

Does this bother anyone else?

Many here won't give a shit because it doesn't affect them directly.

 

[Emma]

1) Show me an express right to privacy in the constitution

Ah, so you're one of those who believes the government grants you your rights.

Here. This should cover it:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

[The Rabbi]

1) Show me an express right to privacy in the constitution

Ah, so you're one of those who believes the government grants you your rights.

Here. This should cover it:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Unfortunately it doesn't. He asked for an express right. Express here doesn't mean real fast.

 

[Emma]

1) Show me an express right to privacy in the constitution

Ah, so you're one of those who believes the government grants you your rights.

Here. This should cover it:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Unfortunately it doesn't. He asked for an express right. Express here doesn't mean real fast.

And, as I pointed out, he is apparently one of those who believe the only rights we have are granted by the government and specifically spelled out in the Constitution. Thankfully, the authors of the Bill of Rights took that into consideration and provided us with the 9th Amendment.

Problem solved.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ah, so you're one of those who believes the government grants you your rights.

Here. This should cover it:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Unfortunately it doesn't. He asked for an express right. Express here doesn't mean real fast.

And, as I pointed out, he is apparently one of those who believe the only rights we have are granted by the government and specifically spelled out in the Constitution. Thankfully, the authors of the Bill of Rights took that into consideration and provided us with the 9th Amendment.

Problem solved.

You didn't answer the question.
Andif it is read as broadly as you think, what rights are NOT granted to the people?

 

[Emma]

Unfortunately it doesn't. He asked for an express right. Express here doesn't mean real fast.

And, as I pointed out, he is apparently one of those who believe the only rights we have are granted by the government and specifically spelled out in the Constitution. Thankfully, the authors of the Bill of Rights took that into consideration and provided us with the 9th Amendment.

Problem solved.

You didn't answer the question.
Andif it is read as broadly as you think, what rights are NOT granted to the people?

I did answer the question. Judging from your comments, you must be one of *those* too

If you believe the government 'grants' you your rights, I can't help ya.