And this is why I am for capital punishment

[Powerman]

Many abortion methods arent any more pleasant than being killed by a dryer.

Looking at it from a non emotional standpoint, I dont think this baby felt any pain for long, as it had blunt force trauma to the head, probably occured in the beginning. The burns were probably never felt, hopefully.

I know some here have to have knowledge of some of the abortion procedures. I have vaguely heard of something about a "saline" solution, and the baby is known to squirm quite a bit during the process?

Also, I know for a fact that partial birth abortion includes removal of arms and legs, then suctioning out the brains for dead delivery, ANYTHING to save the health of the mother. !

Well I don't really like the idea of partial birth abortions but I think you're really throwing a way a lot of your credibility to say that there are many forms of abortion that are more painful than throwing a 3 month old baby in the dryer.

And as for this quote:ANYTHING to save the health of the mother. !

Well let me ask you this. You may not realize this but there are some cases in which the only way to save the mother from certain death is to abort the baby. And in many of these cases BOTH will die if the baby isn't aborted. A procedure called a craniotomy must be performed. They have to crush the baby's skull because of problems with the pregnancy. Yes the idea of crushing a baby's skull is certainly repugnant but when it saves a life I guess it's not so bad. So keep things like that in mind when you're talking about the abortion issue. By the way in a Catholic hospital they will not do this procedure and will let both the mother and child die instead of saving the mother. Something to think about.

 

[dmp]

You may not realize this but there are some cases in which the only way to save the mother from certain death is to abort the baby. And in many of these cases BOTH will die if the baby isn't aborted. A procedure called a craniotomy must be performed. They have to crush the baby's skull because of problems with the pregnancy. Yes the idea of crushing a baby's skull is certainly repugnant but when it saves a life I guess it's not so bad. So keep things like that in mind when you're talking about the abortion issue. By the way in a Catholic hospital they will not do this procedure and will let both the mother and child die instead of saving the mother. Something to think about.

You are talking about 1? .5%? Of all abortions maybe? Seriously...that's got nothing to do with the 100,000??? annual babies killed in the name of convenience.

 

[Powerman]

You are talking about 1? .5%? Of all abortions maybe? Seriously...that's got nothing to do with the 100,000??? annual babies killed in the name of convenience.

But I was bringing up the point in which LUVRPGRL said ANYTHING for the health of the mother. As if this is such a bad thing. I would like to think that if there was a situation where a mother would die if she delivered the baby to term that the mother would at least have the choice between her life and the life of her baby. And they should definitely have the choice when both will die if the craniotomy is not performed.

It doesn't matter what percentage this makes up. What matters is in these cases it seems rather judgemental to say that abortion would be morally reprehensible.

 

[Powerman]

Easy - Abortion today is used as a 'cure' for a frustrating or otherwise difficult situation.

"but...she's too YOUNG to give birth..."

"but...she'll be better OFF without having the STRESS Of a child" and such.

The end result is, people get abortions for very selfish reasons.

Well some people are too young to have birth. Do you really want a bunch of 15 year olds raising kids? That's how you can ensure a high crime rate in the future. Should they be more responsible? Of course. But I really don't see the purpose in forcing 15 and 16 year old girls to have kids when it has literally no net positive benefit for society. You are just asking for a generation of criminals and poverty ridden people who will sponge off of the government.

Then you also have cases such as rape. I wouldn't consider someone selfish for having an abortion if they got pregnant via rape. Unwanted children have a habbit of becoming criminals. Something to think about.

 

[musicman]

You are talking about 1? .5%? Of all abortions maybe? Seriously...that's got nothing to do with the 100,000??? annual babies killed in the name of convenience.

Actually, a 1987 study conducted by the Guttmacher Institute(incidentally, a staunchly pro-abortion organization), put the number of abortions carried out for personal convenience at 80%. Needless to say, no such study has veen carried out since. I mean - how EMBARRASING! However, the general direction in which America has been dragged by our loving liberal culture gives one scant reason to hope that those numbers have improved over the years.

That would put the number of babies killed in the name of convenience at roughly 10 times higher than your estimate.

 

[Annie]

Well I don't really like the idea of partial birth abortions but I think you're really throwing a way a lot of your credibility to say that there are many forms of abortion that are more painful than throwing a 3 month old baby in the dryer.

And as for this quote:ANYTHING to save the health of the mother. !

Well let me ask you this. You may not realize this but there are some cases in which the only way to save the mother from certain death is to abort the baby. And in many of these cases BOTH will die if the baby isn't aborted. A procedure called a craniotomy must be performed. They have to crush the baby's skull because of problems with the pregnancy. Yes the idea of crushing a baby's skull is certainly repugnant but when it saves a life I guess it's not so bad. So keep things like that in mind when you're talking about the abortion issue. By the way in a Catholic hospital they will not do this procedure and will let both the mother and child die instead of saving the mother. Something to think about.

Links please. When a rape victim comes into a Catholic hospital, they do a D & C. Last I checked, that would prevent pregnancy from occuring.

Catholic hospitals around here, put the life of the mother first in emergencies, unless directed differently by the mother.

 

[Powerman]

Links please. When a rape victim comes into a Catholic hospital, they do a D & C. Last I checked, that would prevent pregnancy from occuring.

Catholic hospitals around here, put the life of the mother first in emergencies, unless directed differently by the mother.

I was under the impression that Catholic hospitals will not perform Craniotomies. That's what one of my professors told me and he is on the ethics board of several hospitals. Maybe it's different depending on the hospital?

 

[Powerman]

Actually, a 1987 study conducted by the Guttmacher Institute(incidentally, a staunchly pro-abortion organization), put the number of abortions carried out for personal convenience at 80%. Needless to say, no such study has veen carried out since. I mean - how EMBARRASING! However, the general direction in which America has been dragged by our loving liberal culture gives one scant reason to hope that those numbers have improved over the years.

That would put the number of babies killed in the name of convenience at roughly 10 times higher than your estimate.

Could you imagine what life would be like if all of these unwanted kids would be around today? I can promise you the crime rate would be much higher. Abortion has a net positive effect on society. The last thing we need is a bunch of kids growing up with no father and no guidance.

 

[Annie]

I was under the impression that Catholic hospitals will not perform Craniotomies. That's what one of my professors told me and he is on the ethics board of several hospitals. Maybe it's different depending on the hospital?

Well I'm talking Loyola in Maywood. They will not perform abortions, but will always put the life of the mother first when there is a choice to be made in delivery. Unless as I said, the mother says differently.

Don't you think you should check your facts before writing a declaratory sentence, then adding, "Something to think about." ?

 

[Powerman]

Well I'm talking Loyola in Maywood. They will not perform abortions, but will always put the life of the mother first when there is a choice to be made in delivery. Unless as I said, the mother says differently.

Don't you think you should check your facts before writing a declaratory sentence, then adding, "Something to think about." ?

Yes. All people should do fact checking. I am quoting someone who taught me a biomedical ethics class here at LSU. I don't think he would screw something like that up. I will happily look for the facts though. You might find out that I'm right though. Just a warning lol. I think it has to do with the doctrine of double effect if I remember correctly.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I was under the impression that Catholic hospitals will not perform Craniotomies. That's what one of my professors told me and he is on the ethics board of several hospitals. Maybe it's different depending on the hospital?

Maybe you should "get a second opinion" before espousing his all over the place.

 

[musicman]

Well some people are too young to have birth.

Well, no - evidently NOT.

But I really don't see the purpose in forcing 15 and 16 year old girls to have kids...

Scientists have learned what causes that now.

...when it has literally no net positive benefit for society. You are just asking for a generation of criminals and poverty ridden people who will sponge off of the government.

So, kill them for their own good, and ours? This is what frightens me about liberalism. Out of one side of its mouth, it bleats statistics and platitudes about love, mercy, and tolerance. But its actions betray the ideology's beating heart: tyranny and murder.

Then you also have cases such as rape.

A tiny percentage of abortions, and all the more reason not to have the matter determined by the sweeping government policy of judicial fiat. This is for the people to decide.

 

[Powerman]

Maybe you should "get a second opinion" before espousing his all over the place.

What we are speaking of here isn't a matter of opinion. Either he made a mistake of he didn't.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

What we are speaking of here isn't a matter of opinion. Either he made a mistake of he didn't.

The opinion part was in quotes. I was making a funny... you see, you were told this by a guy who...nevermind. Just, nevermind...

 

[Powerman]

Well there is no doubt in my mind that I am 100% right on this simple little fact. I just need to find the information. Then Kathy will be nice and apologise to me. It's not as if I just make up bullshit around here. I'd think she'd have more faith in me than that.

 

[musicman]

Could you imagine what life would be like if all of these unwanted kids would be around today?

Their parents might have had to (gasp!) grow up!

I can promise you the crime rate would be much higher. Abortion has a net positive effect on society. The last thing we need is a bunch of kids growing up with no father and no guidance.

Too bad we don't have time machines; you'd have had a great career interning for Dr. Mengele.

 

[Bonnie]

This woman should be dead before I wake up tomorrow.

Not sure if this belongs here but I'm sure the death penalty would vaguely fit into the religious or ethics realm.

Disclaimer: You may have the sudden urge to kill someone if you read this. Absolutely sick. In my home State of Louisiana.


http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4208925

Im heartsick reading this....People can be the cruelest creatures... Yes she should be placed in a tumble dryer till she is dead!!!!

 

[Powerman]

Kathy I hate to tell you but I was right. Catholics will not allow craniotomies to be performed. Sorry.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...ble+effect"+craniotomy&hl=en&client=firefox-a

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/abortion.html

I'm currently looking for some more solid sources. This seems to be relatively difficult information to come accross though.

 

[Powerman]

Im heartsick reading this....People can be the cruelest creatures... Yes she should be placed in a tumble dryer till she is dead!!!!

What really sickens me is that people say that having an abortion is equivalent to this. And personally I think that abortion is morally reprehsnible. Even though I'm actually pro choice for other reasons.

 

[Annie]

What we are speaking of here isn't a matter of opinion. Either he made a mistake of he didn't.

I googled, this seems the most pertinent, but costs $12.00. I'm not that interested in proving your professor wrong, though you should be able to see that he probably is from even this bit of an abstract.

[PDF] The Evil of Abortion and the Greater Good of the Faith ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
women in Catholic hospitals. In each case, the image of a dying woman, ...
lawful to perform craniotomies or any other procedure that sacriced ...
caliber.ucpress.net/doi/pdf/10.1525/rac.2002.12.1.91 - Similar pages

[PDF]