An example of how impossible the Isreali/Palestinian conflict is

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

Oh jeese!

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

Oh jeese!

That's what I figured. No answer, just song and dance.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

​

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

Oh jeese!

That's what I figured. No answer, just song and dance.

Apt response to such an inane question.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

​

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

Oh jeese!

That's what I figured. No answer, just song and dance.

Apt response to such an inane question.

Nice duck.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

Your logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[Phoenall]

Does that mean that I have to believe the shit that Israel shovels?

It is more truthful than anything the arab muslims put out, as the evidence shows.

Now THAT is funny.

You don't believe any of the facts that are presented to you, even with all the evidence provided.

Why are you laughing? Phoenall is absolutely right. The lies and propaganda that comes out of the pro 'Palestinian' side is on a different level. It is unmatched by any other group. I'm certain that even someone who is neither pro Israeli or pro Palestinian would agree with that. Without lies and propaganda, the Palestinians would have very little support.

How about pulling out one of those lies for closer scrutiny?

I don't have lies. I have facts which I back up with valid information. Unlike you.

How about we both provide out evidence about Israel borders. You claim they have none lol yet you have ZERO evidence to back it up. When I provide the indisputable evidence to prove that Israel DOES in fact have internationally recognized borders, you resort to asking stupid irrelevant questions.

So, you go ahead and provide your links that 'prove' Israel has no borders, and I'll post my links . Ok?

I do feel stupid even bothering to debate about something that is so obvious, but it's always fun to prove to everyone that you are a compulsive liar.

That goes back to a question y'all have been dancing around for years.[/QUOTE]





What question is that then, but I note you don't provide any link to Israel not having any borders. Then try this one Where is the documentad proof that Israel murders Palestinians every year ?

 

[Phoenall]

Now THAT is funny.

You don't believe any of the facts that are presented to you, even with all the evidence provided.

Why are you laughing? Phoenall is absolutely right. The lies and propaganda that comes out of the pro 'Palestinian' side is on a different level. It is unmatched by any other group. I'm certain that even someone who is neither pro Israeli or pro Palestinian would agree with that. Without lies and propaganda, the Palestinians would have very little support.

How about pulling out one of those lies for closer scrutiny?

I don't have lies. I have facts which I back up with valid information. Unlike you.

How about we both provide out evidence about Israel borders. You claim they have none lol yet you have ZERO evidence to back it up. When I provide the indisputable evidence to prove that Israel DOES in fact have internationally recognized borders, you resort to asking stupid irrelevant questions.

So, you go ahead and provide your links that 'prove' Israel has no borders, and I'll post my links . Ok?

I do feel stupid even bothering to debate about something that is so obvious, but it's always fun to prove to everyone that you are a compulsive liar.

That goes back to a question y'all have been dancing around for years.

Go ahead and ask any question you want. That's one of your Tinmore tactics. When you are proven wrong about something, you ask a ridiculous irrelevant questions and if no one has the answer you like, you act as if you are somehow correct.

The problem with that is you never provide any evidence. For example, you always ask the stupid question : When did land get transferred to Israel?.

There was no land transfer, because there never needed to be. Then I ask you this question which you have been avoiding for a loooooong time:

Where does it say that a country needs to have land TRANSFERRED to them to declare independence.?

This is around the time when you start with your deflections.

So, about your evidence about Israel NOT having borders.....links??

Where does it say that a country needs to have land TRANSFERRED to them to declare independence.?​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?[/QUOTE]




No as Jordan also declared independence in Palestine, as in the Palestinian mandate as no nation of Palestine existed until 1988. Palestine was an area on the map and nothing else, split into 2 parts by the LoN in 1923. The arab muslim part that became Jordan and the Jewish part that became Israel.

And for the record there was a land transfer in respect of Jordan and Syria as the rulers where not indigenous and came from Saudi Arabia. All taken care of in the two Mandates in force at the time

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

Are you having English problems again as this is very plainly stated

When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

If as you say you are matching people to their place then surely you must match the Jews to Palestine as they where the original Palestinians and called as such by everyone including the muslims. It was only in 1960 when the Russian handlers told Arafat that his PLO did not have any legitimacy that he stole the term for the arab muslims. So you admit that Palestine should have been given entirely to the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

Your logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

No such concept in international law as "right of return" it is unenforceable by any nation as this leaves the way open for insurgents to infiltrate a country and plan insurrection.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

Under normal circumstances it is not an issue. The Lebanese declared independence in Lebanon. No land transfer was necessary. The Syrians declared independence in Syria. No land transfer was necessary. The Jordanians declared independence in Jordan No land transfer was necessary.

Israel declared independence in Palestine.

Do you see a difference?

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25." SOURCE: League of Nations 19 JULY 29
​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India, and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan; Who, having communicated their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

Article I

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. SOURCE: Page 144 UN Treaty Series 1947

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

Oh jeese!

A simple enough question that even you should be able to provide an answer to.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a shell-game of absolutely no consequence. You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied. That would be incorrect. You are also implying that there was a separate mandate for Trans-Jordanian, which there was not.

Lastly, both the mandates contain a special clause providing that, on the termination of the mandatory regime, it will be incumbent on the Council of the League of Nations to use its influence to ensure that financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of the countries in question during the period of the mandate are henceforward duly honoured.

The Mandate for Syria and Lebanon contains a special provision to the effect that the Mandatory is to frame for these countries an organic law taking into account the rights, interests and wishes of all their populations and that he is to facilitate the progressive development of the two countries as independent States. French and Arabic are the official languages of Syria and Lebanon. The Mandatory is to encourage public education, which is to be given through the medium of the native languages in use in the territories of Syria and Lebanon.

In the Mandate for Syria and Lebanon, the Article establishing the principle of economic equality contains clauses similar to those included in the "B" Mandates (see page 26) with regard to concessions and monopolies.

The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". SOURCE: The Mandate System LoN/1945.VI.A.1 30 April 1945​

(CLARIFICATION)

Point #1:

This position was understood from 1922 through 1946; when the territory was reduced by 77% - when the provisional government of Trans-Jordania was granted full independence. Thereafter, Palestine referred to the remaining 23% of the territory (not provisionally recognized).​

​

Point #2:

Israel did not declare independence "in Palestine." The Jewish declare Independence over the allocated portion of the remaining territory territory to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied. In 1946, approximately 77% of the territory to which the Mandate applied, was granted independence:

​

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Question: Do you see a difference?

• ANSWER: Yes, I understand your question. And you don't understand the difference.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; originally included the provisionally recognized independence of Trans-Jordan. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all declared independent on territories relative to the respective areas covered by the appropriate Mandate. When the people of a territory declare independence, it does not matter what name they choose for their country (less duplicates).

You logic is neither sound nor valid.

Most Respectfully,
R​

You are trying to suggest that the name of a country must match the name of the territory under which the Mandate applied.​

No. I am matching the people to their place.

IF there was a Palestine after the Mandate ended, then why did the Palestinian declare independence in 1988 ?

Oh jeese!

That's what I figured. No answer, just song and dance.

Apt response to such an inane question.

No just you DUCKING and DIVING as usual when you are placed on the spot.