Ambassadors protest at Israel's confiscation of West Bank shelters

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore , also please apply the equal rights of the Jewish people as a people of the place entitled to sovereignty over the territory to this post:

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

There you go again using "the Jewish people." Which Jewish people?

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

I, on the other had, am an American Christian. I can't go to Palestine, throw somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore , also please apply the equal rights of the Jewish people as a people of the place entitled to sovereignty over the territory to this post:

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

There you go again using "the Jewish people." Which Jewish people?

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

I, on the other had, am an American Christian. I can't go to Palestine, throw somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture.

They did not exist until well into the 4 century and are mostly Roman or Greek. The Jews came before them and endured until the present day, even after many were taken as slaves or mass murdered by Christians and muslims. The palestinian Christians are living in palestine, but only the small part the arab muslims allow them to live in. The rest is out of bounds unless you are an arab muslim.


Why not you went to America threw someone out of thier home and started to carry in your furniture. Or was that ok because you dont want international laws to be used retrospectively that far back

 

[Shusha]

I, on the other had, am an American Christian. I can't go to Palestine, throw somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture.

Funny that you should mention that. You would be an American Christian of European descent, yes? As opposed to a First Nations person of the Americas?

From what does your moral right to live in the Americas arise?

 

[Shusha]

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

But we've been over this before. The Jewish people are also the people of the place. It is also their homeland. They have the right to live there and they have the right to sovereignty over the territory.

Just as the Palestinian Arabs are a people of the place. It is their homeland. They have a right to live there and they have a right to sovereignty over the territory.

See how this equality thing works? Same rights for both peoples.




Now, what you are really trying to argue is that there is no such thing that can be collectively called the "Jewish people" -- rather that there are several distinct groups of Jews. I'll make it easy for you. This is what you are trying to argue: There are no Jews. There are Ashkenazis. There are Sephardis. There are Mizrahis. And there are Palestinian Jews. Each group of Jews has a different set of rights and ONLY the Palestinian Jews are a people of the place and have rights to live there and hold sovereignty over the territory.

Here are my problems with your argument:

1. Its called self-determination. Not other-determination. You don't get to choose who does and who does not belong to the Jewish people. We do. You can't cut us up and divide us to suit yourself. That is denying us our self-determination.

2. You have already agreed that immigration is one of the privileges of self-determination of a people.

3. I'm concerned that you won't apply your criteria for who is and who is not a "person of the place" equally. For example, you do not speak of recent Arab immigrants to Palestine (post 1925) who are also "foreigners". You never seem to argue that only people who can prove

4. Finally, and most importantly, the idea that expelling a people from their homeland (ethnic cleansing) negates the rights of those cleansed and all of their descendants is morally wrong, in my mind. Creating a diaspora (a moral wrong) must not lead to increased rights for those committing that wrong. Those in a diaspora should have the right to return to their homeland (though not without considering the rights of others).

 

[Hossfly]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

Like this



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:



PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.





Are you now going to deny the actual words of the INTERNATIONAL LAW because you want to deny the Jews the same rights as the arab muslims ?

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer. It was for Jews to get Palestinian citizenship. And like all other Palestinians, they would be allowed to live anywhere in Palestine.

However some people don't want Jews living in some parts of Palestine. And a US Congressman at that. SOB should be strung up by his nutsack. And don't any of you Liberal Socialist Pukes say I'm racist.


Addressing an anti-Israel audience at the DNC, a congressman likened Jewish Israelis living in Judea and Samaria to “termites.”

Rep. Hank Johnson, a Democratic member of the House Armed Services Committee, compared residents of Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria to “termites,” the Washington Free Beacon reported.

Speaking in Philadelphia at a Democratic National Convention event sponsored by the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, an organization that promotes Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against the Jewish state, the congressman from Georgia stated:

“There has been a steady [stream], almost like termites can get into a residence and eat before you know that you’ve been eaten up and you fall in on yourself, there has been settlement activity that has marched forward with impunity and at an ever-increasing rate to the point where it has become alarming.”

According to Johnson, “Jewish people” routinely steal land and property from Palestinians.

Cynthia McKinney, a former member of the House of Representatives, on Sunday posted on Twitter that Israel was complicit in the recent terror attacks in Nice and Munich. Also a Democrat from Georgia, she based her libelous allegation on the fact that an Israeli photographer was present at both incidents.

By: Atara Beck


Congressman calls Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria 'termites' | World Israel News

 

[Boston1]

P F Tinmore , also please apply the equal rights of the Jewish people as a people of the place entitled to sovereignty over the territory to this post:

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

There you go again using "the Jewish people." Which Jewish people?

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

I, on the other had, am an American Christian. I can't go to Palestine, throw somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture.

You still seem extremely confused about this term "palestinian"

There is NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN

It was a term invented by a fat Egyptian who was trying to fake a history of itinerant Arab Muslim colonists in ISRAEL.

At NO POINT in history was there ever a palestinian people up until the late 60s when a fat Egyptian pretended the recently immigrated itinerant Arab Muslim colonists were an ancient race. We all know they aren't.

But you keep on about the 1 or 2% of the population that is Pauline Christian, who are NOT included in the term palestinian. They may or may not be descendants of the Judaic native peoples. You have absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion that the people named incorectely by the fat Egyptian as palestinians are anything but itinerant Arab Muslims.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore , also please apply the equal rights of the Jewish people as a people of the place entitled to sovereignty over the territory to this post:

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

There you go again using "the Jewish people." Which Jewish people?

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

I, on the other had, am an American Christian. I can't go to Palestine, throw somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture.

You still seem extremely confused about this term "palestinian"

There is NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN

It was a term invented by a fat Egyptian who was trying to fake a history of itinerant Arab Muslim colonists in ISRAEL.

At NO POINT in history was there ever a palestinian people up until the late 60s when a fat Egyptian pretended the recently immigrated itinerant Arab Muslim colonists were an ancient race. We all know they aren't.

But you keep on about the 1 or 2% of the population that is Pauline Christian, who are NOT included in the term palestinian. They may or may not be descendants of the Judaic native peoples. You have absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion that the people named incorectely by the fat Egyptian as palestinians are anything but itinerant Arab Muslims.

They dont even call it palestine themselves and refer to it as filistan or balestan making a mockery of everyones claims of palestine

 

[Shusha]

I, on the other had, am an American Christian. I can't go to Palestine, throw somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture.

Funny that you should mention that. You would be an American Christian of European descent, yes? As opposed to a First Nations person of the Americas?

From what does your moral right to live in the Americas arise?

Bump for P F Tinmore

 

[Shusha]

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

But we've been over this before. The Jewish people are also the people of the place. It is also their homeland. They have the right to live there and they have the right to sovereignty over the territory.

Just as the Palestinian Arabs are a people of the place. It is their homeland. They have a right to live there and they have a right to sovereignty over the territory.

See how this equality thing works? Same rights for both peoples.




Now, what you are really trying to argue is that there is no such thing that can be collectively called the "Jewish people" -- rather that there are several distinct groups of Jews. I'll make it easy for you. This is what you are trying to argue: There are no Jews. There are Ashkenazis. There are Sephardis. There are Mizrahis. And there are Palestinian Jews. Each group of Jews has a different set of rights and ONLY the Palestinian Jews are a people of the place and have rights to live there and hold sovereignty over the territory.

Here are my problems with your argument:

1. Its called self-determination. Not other-determination. You don't get to choose who does and who does not belong to the Jewish people. We do. You can't cut us up and divide us to suit yourself. That is denying us our self-determination.

2. You have already agreed that immigration is one of the privileges of self-determination of a people.

3. I'm concerned that you won't apply your criteria for who is and who is not a "person of the place" equally. For example, you do not speak of recent Arab immigrants to Palestine (post 1925) who are also "foreigners". You never seem to argue that only people who can prove

4. Finally, and most importantly, the idea that expelling a people from their homeland (ethnic cleansing) negates the rights of those cleansed and all of their descendants is morally wrong, in my mind. Creating a diaspora (a moral wrong) must not lead to increased rights for those committing that wrong. Those in a diaspora should have the right to return to their homeland (though not without considering the rights of others).

bump for P F Tinmore

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

But we've been over this before. The Jewish people are also the people of the place. It is also their homeland. They have the right to live there and they have the right to sovereignty over the territory.

Just as the Palestinian Arabs are a people of the place. It is their homeland. They have a right to live there and they have a right to sovereignty over the territory.

See how this equality thing works? Same rights for both peoples.




Now, what you are really trying to argue is that there is no such thing that can be collectively called the "Jewish people" -- rather that there are several distinct groups of Jews. I'll make it easy for you. This is what you are trying to argue: There are no Jews. There are Ashkenazis. There are Sephardis. There are Mizrahis. And there are Palestinian Jews. Each group of Jews has a different set of rights and ONLY the Palestinian Jews are a people of the place and have rights to live there and hold sovereignty over the territory.

Here are my problems with your argument:

1. Its called self-determination. Not other-determination. You don't get to choose who does and who does not belong to the Jewish people. We do. You can't cut us up and divide us to suit yourself. That is denying us our self-determination.

2. You have already agreed that immigration is one of the privileges of self-determination of a people.

3. I'm concerned that you won't apply your criteria for who is and who is not a "person of the place" equally. For example, you do not speak of recent Arab immigrants to Palestine (post 1925) who are also "foreigners". You never seem to argue that only people who can prove

4. Finally, and most importantly, the idea that expelling a people from their homeland (ethnic cleansing) negates the rights of those cleansed and all of their descendants is morally wrong, in my mind. Creating a diaspora (a moral wrong) must not lead to increased rights for those committing that wrong. Those in a diaspora should have the right to return to their homeland (though not without considering the rights of others).

bump for P F Tinmore

You need to reread my posts. You misunderstand what I have said.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come now!!!

Anything built without a permit around here would be torn down in a flash, at the expense of the owner and there'd be a huge fine associated with the demolition order as well.

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

(COMMENT)

• Between 1516 and 1917 the Ottoman Empire had sovereignty over the Middle East. During that period, no one challenged the validity of that.
• After 1917 (a century ago) the Allied Powers gained control of the Middle East.
• Between 1943 and 1948, Lebanon, Syria, Israel and Jordan become independent.

When did the "Palestinians" assume control of Title and Rights to any territory?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

P F Tinmore

This is why I ask for clarification. Can you summarize your main argument in a few sentences?

Here's what I think you have been saying, generally, in all your posts that I've read here over the past yearish:

There is only one group of people in Palestine who are the "people of the place" and have inalienable rights to self-determination in the territory in question. These "Palestinians" are culturally "Palestinian" though they may practice any religious faith. The Jewish people who remained in Palestine are "Palestinians". The Jewish people who were exiled, removed, ethnically cleansed or simply migrated from their homeland in Israel a few thousand years ago have no rights to self-determination on that territory as a separate and distinct people.

So, tell me what I misunderstand about your general principles, here.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore

This is why I ask for clarification. Can you summarize your main argument in a few sentences?

Here's what I think you have been saying, generally, in all your posts that I've read here over the past yearish:

There is only one group of people in Palestine who are the "people of the place" and have inalienable rights to self-determination in the territory in question. These "Palestinians" are culturally "Palestinian" though they may practice any religious faith. The Jewish people who remained in Palestine are "Palestinians". The Jewish people who were exiled, removed, ethnically cleansed or simply migrated from their homeland in Israel a few thousand years ago have no rights to self-determination on that territory as a separate and distinct people.

So, tell me what I misunderstand about your general principles, here.

The first part looks good but those who created Israel had no ancestors from Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

The first part looks good but those who created Israel had no ancestors from Palestine.

Ah. So you are another in the REAL Jews (TM) and not REAL Jews camp. Roger that.

Here is my position on that:

1. The Jewish people originated in the territory.
2. The territory is their historical, ancestral and spiritual homeland.
3. The Jewish people experienced three major disasters that changed the political status of their homeland (nakbas, if you will): The military conquest and subsequent genocide and ethnic cleansing by the Babylonians; the conquest and subsequent genocide and ethnic cleansing by the Romans and the conquest and colonization by the Arabs.
4. The Jewish people both maintained a presence in the homeland and experienced a forced diaspora.
5. The Jewish people maintained their culture throughout the diaspora, as well as ties to and a desire to return to Israel at some point in the future.
6. DNA testing confirms the close relationship between all Jews in the diaspora and in Palestine.
7. The Jewish people have the right to determine who is and who is not part of their cultural group (as do all cultures).

So, Tinmore, which of these points do you think I have wrong?

 

[Phoenall]

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

But we've been over this before. The Jewish people are also the people of the place. It is also their homeland. They have the right to live there and they have the right to sovereignty over the territory.

Just as the Palestinian Arabs are a people of the place. It is their homeland. They have a right to live there and they have a right to sovereignty over the territory.

See how this equality thing works? Same rights for both peoples.




Now, what you are really trying to argue is that there is no such thing that can be collectively called the "Jewish people" -- rather that there are several distinct groups of Jews. I'll make it easy for you. This is what you are trying to argue: There are no Jews. There are Ashkenazis. There are Sephardis. There are Mizrahis. And there are Palestinian Jews. Each group of Jews has a different set of rights and ONLY the Palestinian Jews are a people of the place and have rights to live there and hold sovereignty over the territory.

Here are my problems with your argument:

1. Its called self-determination. Not other-determination. You don't get to choose who does and who does not belong to the Jewish people. We do. You can't cut us up and divide us to suit yourself. That is denying us our self-determination.

2. You have already agreed that immigration is one of the privileges of self-determination of a people.

3. I'm concerned that you won't apply your criteria for who is and who is not a "person of the place" equally. For example, you do not speak of recent Arab immigrants to Palestine (post 1925) who are also "foreigners". You never seem to argue that only people who can prove

4. Finally, and most importantly, the idea that expelling a people from their homeland (ethnic cleansing) negates the rights of those cleansed and all of their descendants is morally wrong, in my mind. Creating a diaspora (a moral wrong) must not lead to increased rights for those committing that wrong. Those in a diaspora should have the right to return to their homeland (though not without considering the rights of others).

bump for P F Tinmore

You need to reread my posts. You misunderstand what I have said.

No you need to stop spouting islamonazi propaganda and start looking at the truth for once. There was no nation of palestine prior to 1988, and that was created illegally. There was no rights back in 1917, 1921, 1923, 1924, 1948, 1949 and 1967 other than those in existence. You cant use international laws retrospectively unless you also want them to apply to your invasion and colonisation of America. Israel exists under international law and you need to cease taking the Jews rights to be covered by international law away from them. The Jews have more eights to the land than the arab muslims under international law, and you need to accept this fact.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore

This is why I ask for clarification. Can you summarize your main argument in a few sentences?

Here's what I think you have been saying, generally, in all your posts that I've read here over the past yearish:

There is only one group of people in Palestine who are the "people of the place" and have inalienable rights to self-determination in the territory in question. These "Palestinians" are culturally "Palestinian" though they may practice any religious faith. The Jewish people who remained in Palestine are "Palestinians". The Jewish people who were exiled, removed, ethnically cleansed or simply migrated from their homeland in Israel a few thousand years ago have no rights to self-determination on that territory as a separate and distinct people.

So, tell me what I misunderstand about your general principles, here.

The first part looks good but those who created Israel had no ancestors from Palestine.

SAYS WHO As DNA testing shows that they are related to the original inhabitants from before the invention of Christianity.

WHY DO YOU KEEP PEDDLING THIS LIE AND TRY TO DENY THE JEWS THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS TO THEIR LANDS

 

[Dot Com]

Israel is shooting itself in the foot again. Is this any way to treat your friends?

Eight ambassadors to Israel have written to the Israeli military accusing it of breaking international humanitarian law by confiscating shelters for Bedouins in the occupied West Bank that were paid for by European governments.

Ambassadors protest at Israel's confiscation of West Bank shelters​

As they should

 

[ForeverYoung436]

P F Tinmore

This is why I ask for clarification. Can you summarize your main argument in a few sentences?

Here's what I think you have been saying, generally, in all your posts that I've read here over the past yearish:

There is only one group of people in Palestine who are the "people of the place" and have inalienable rights to self-determination in the territory in question. These "Palestinians" are culturally "Palestinian" though they may practice any religious faith. The Jewish people who remained in Palestine are "Palestinians". The Jewish people who were exiled, removed, ethnically cleansed or simply migrated from their homeland in Israel a few thousand years ago have no rights to self-determination on that territory as a separate and distinct people.

So, tell me what I misunderstand about your general principles, here.

The first part looks good but those who created Israel had no ancestors from Palestine.

SAYS WHO As DNA testing shows that they are related to the original inhabitants from before the invention of Christianity.

WHY DO YOU KEEP PEDDLING THIS LIE AND TRY TO DENY THE JEWS THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS TO THEIR LANDS

Land without the S. Israel is a very small country.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel is shooting itself in the foot again. Is this any way to treat your friends?

Eight ambassadors to Israel have written to the Israeli military accusing it of breaking international humanitarian law by confiscating shelters for Bedouins in the occupied West Bank that were paid for by European governments.

Ambassadors protest at Israel's confiscation of West Bank shelters​

As they should

Illegal buildings built on state land means they will be demolished and taken away, in the US they would bill the owners for the demolition and removal as well

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinian Christians have the right to live in Palestine. They are the people of the place. It is their homeland.

But we've been over this before. The Jewish people are also the people of the place. It is also their homeland. They have the right to live there and they have the right to sovereignty over the territory.

Just as the Palestinian Arabs are a people of the place. It is their homeland. They have a right to live there and they have a right to sovereignty over the territory.

See how this equality thing works? Same rights for both peoples.




Now, what you are really trying to argue is that there is no such thing that can be collectively called the "Jewish people" -- rather that there are several distinct groups of Jews. I'll make it easy for you. This is what you are trying to argue: There are no Jews. There are Ashkenazis. There are Sephardis. There are Mizrahis. And there are Palestinian Jews. Each group of Jews has a different set of rights and ONLY the Palestinian Jews are a people of the place and have rights to live there and hold sovereignty over the territory.

Here are my problems with your argument:

1. Its called self-determination. Not other-determination. You don't get to choose who does and who does not belong to the Jewish people. We do. You can't cut us up and divide us to suit yourself. That is denying us our self-determination.

2. You have already agreed that immigration is one of the privileges of self-determination of a people.

3. I'm concerned that you won't apply your criteria for who is and who is not a "person of the place" equally. For example, you do not speak of recent Arab immigrants to Palestine (post 1925) who are also "foreigners". You never seem to argue that only people who can prove

4. Finally, and most importantly, the idea that expelling a people from their homeland (ethnic cleansing) negates the rights of those cleansed and all of their descendants is morally wrong, in my mind. Creating a diaspora (a moral wrong) must not lead to increased rights for those committing that wrong. Those in a diaspora should have the right to return to their homeland (though not without considering the rights of others).

bump for P F Tinmore

You need to reread my posts. You misunderstand what I have said.

No you need to stop spouting islamonazi propaganda and start looking at the truth for once. There was no nation of palestine prior to 1988, and that was created illegally. There was no rights back in 1917, 1921, 1923, 1924, 1948, 1949 and 1967 other than those in existence. You cant use international laws retrospectively unless you also want them to apply to your invasion and colonisation of America. Israel exists under international law and you need to cease taking the Jews rights to be covered by international law away from them. The Jews have more eights to the land than the arab muslims under international law, and you need to accept this fact.

There was no nation of palestine prior to 1988,​

Do you have anyone saying that besides Israel?