Aircraft carriers are as useless as battleships in an all out war with China or Russia

[harmonica]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

Taiwan?

China has already taken over the USA, and they are training troops in Canada now

That's as stupid a claim as the one in this thread.

And carriers are not necessarily meant to attack China or Russia directly. They can and would perform a valuable function of keeping control of the SLOCs such as to the Persian Gulf.

Exactly so carriers can only attack camel equipped nations that do not have modern anti ship missiles.

Build 11 more and this will not change

FYI = the water covers over 70% of the the Earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you understand the point????
..you obviously don't know shit about wars except what you play on your PC games...
..in REAL wars, you want to control the oceans/etc--AHHHHH!! that's what the carriers are for

How do you launch an air attack on China or Russia with a carrier without that carrier sinking by the following missile attack

Haven't played a PC game in twenty years as I prefer playing with numbskulls like you

you DON'T get it --do you!!!!!????? hahahahahah
1. the carriers can be used ALL over the world--for a war with China or not!!....YES, they can be used for other wars with other countries--
2. ever hear of a war called WW2??? the carriers RARELY ever attacked Japan..the Doolittle raid should not even be counted --so, for almost the entirety of the war--the carriers never attacked Japan--and that was a NAVAL war!!!

 

[esalla]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

Taiwan?

China has already taken over the USA, and they are training troops in Canada now

That's as stupid a claim as the one in this thread.

And carriers are not necessarily meant to attack China or Russia directly. They can and would perform a valuable function of keeping control of the SLOCs such as to the Persian Gulf.

Exactly so carriers can only attack camel equipped nations that do not have modern anti ship missiles.

Build 11 more and this will not change

FYI = the water covers over 70% of the the Earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you understand the point????
..you obviously don't know shit about wars except what you play on your PC games...
..in REAL wars, you want to control the oceans/etc--AHHHHH!! that's what the carriers are for

How do you launch an air attack on China or Russia with a carrier without that carrier sinking by the following missile attack

Haven't played a PC game in twenty years as I prefer playing with numbskulls like you

you DON'T get it --do you!!!!!????? hahahahahah
1. the carriers can be used ALL over the world--for a war with China or not!!....YES, they can be used for other wars with other countries--
2. ever hear of a war called WW2??? the carriers RARELY ever attacked Japan..the Doolittle raid should not even be counted --so, for almost the entirety of the war--the carriers never attacked Japan--and that was a NAVAL war!!!

The last credible threat to any carrier was in WW2, the new jets are no longer the best weapons, that now belongs to missiles.

People like you quoting WW2 in 2020 are mental midgets lost in time

 

[harmonica]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

Taiwan?

China has already taken over the USA, and they are training troops in Canada now

That's as stupid a claim as the one in this thread.

And carriers are not necessarily meant to attack China or Russia directly. They can and would perform a valuable function of keeping control of the SLOCs such as to the Persian Gulf.

Exactly so carriers can only attack camel equipped nations that do not have modern anti ship missiles.

Build 11 more and this will not change

FYI = the water covers over 70% of the the Earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you understand the point????
..you obviously don't know shit about wars except what you play on your PC games...
..in REAL wars, you want to control the oceans/etc--AHHHHH!! that's what the carriers are for

How do you launch an air attack on China or Russia with a carrier without that carrier sinking by the following missile attack

Haven't played a PC game in twenty years as I prefer playing with numbskulls like you

you DON'T get it --do you!!!!!????? hahahahahah
1. the carriers can be used ALL over the world--for a war with China or not!!....YES, they can be used for other wars with other countries--
2. ever hear of a war called WW2??? the carriers RARELY ever attacked Japan..the Doolittle raid should not even be counted --so, for almost the entirety of the war--the carriers never attacked Japan--and that was a NAVAL war!!!

The last credible threat to any carrier was in WW2, the new jets are no longer the best weapons, that now belongs to missiles.

People like you quoting WW2 in 2020 are mental midgets lost in time

..you've been proven wrong so many times by so many members, it's funny
HAHAHHAHAHAAHAHaH

 

[esalla]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

Taiwan?

China has already taken over the USA, and they are training troops in Canada now

That's as stupid a claim as the one in this thread.

And carriers are not necessarily meant to attack China or Russia directly. They can and would perform a valuable function of keeping control of the SLOCs such as to the Persian Gulf.

Exactly so carriers can only attack camel equipped nations that do not have modern anti ship missiles.

Build 11 more and this will not change

FYI = the water covers over 70% of the the Earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you understand the point????
..you obviously don't know shit about wars except what you play on your PC games...
..in REAL wars, you want to control the oceans/etc--AHHHHH!! that's what the carriers are for

How do you launch an air attack on China or Russia with a carrier without that carrier sinking by the following missile attack

Haven't played a PC game in twenty years as I prefer playing with numbskulls like you

you DON'T get it --do you!!!!!????? hahahahahah
1. the carriers can be used ALL over the world--for a war with China or not!!....YES, they can be used for other wars with other countries--
2. ever hear of a war called WW2??? the carriers RARELY ever attacked Japan..the Doolittle raid should not even be counted --so, for almost the entirety of the war--the carriers never attacked Japan--and that was a NAVAL war!!!

The last credible threat to any carrier was in WW2, the new jets are no longer the best weapons, that now belongs to missiles.

People like you quoting WW2 in 2020 are mental midgets lost in time

..you've been proven wrong so many times by so many members, it's funny
HAHAHHAHAHAAHAHaH

That actually was tried once.......................................

Still here

 

[22lcidw]

The first Ford Carrier has cost 13 billion dollars and has some teething with its modern technology still. There are 4 to be funded so far of that class. The costs are what is worrisome to the brass. It takes away from others programs. Another idea by the Sec. of the Navy is to build at least several light aircraft carriers carrying unmanned aerial drones in conjunction with the large nuclear ones. These may be based on the LHD Marine troop carriers. The nuclear carriers are 100 thousand tons or so. The LHD's at this point are about 45 thousand tons and conventionally powered.

 

[esalla]

The first Ford Carrier has cost 13 billion dollars and has some teething with its modern technology still. There are 4 to be funded so far of that class. The costs are what is worrisome to the brass. It takes away from others programs. Another idea by the Sec. of the Navy is to build at least several light aircraft carriers carrying unmanned aerial drones in conjunction with the large nuclear ones. These may be based on the LHD Marine troop carriers. The nuclear carriers are 100 thousand tons or so. The LHD's at this point are about 45 thousand tons and conventionally powered.

The Ford class may be cancelled after the hulls under construction are complete or perhaps before as the issues on the Ford are severe. Imagine a skyscraper with no working elevators.

Pretty useless, but perhaps they have a hand crank

 

[Silver Cat]

In the matter of fact, our Carrier Forces are "overused" even in the current "peaceful" time.

No Margin Left: Overworked Carrier Force Struggles to Maintain Deployments - USNI News

Navy aircraft carrier operations are up 40 percent this year over last year, even as the service has fewer available for tasking due to maintenance and acquisition challenges. From January through Oct. 31, U.S. carriers had spent a combined total of 855 days at sea – 258 days more than all of...

news.usni.org

 

[Jarlaxle]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

The fix is actually quite simple: Taiwan needs to announce...
We have nuclear weapons.
If invaded, the invasion fleet will be attacked with nuclear weapons.
Low-yield nuclear missiles will be used to blow the every large dam in China.
If the invasion cannot be thrown back, every city in mainland China will be glassed by cobalt-jacketed dirty nukes.

 

[Jarlaxle]

As useless as battleships?

You could run a battleship aground so it couldn't sink & level an entire city!

Great idea except there are no battleships to run aground and all they ever did was kill the people firing the guns anyway. Bye the way an aground battleship that can not evade enemy missiles does not have to sink as everyone on it will be dead in 2 minutes

Put down the box wine and sleep it off.

 

[Jarlaxle]

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

Okay...

I'm all for spending less money on them because we don't need a bloated Military Industrial complex, but if we get into a war with Russia or China, it would be our own stupidity.

I'm curious why you assume it would just be Americas fault? Would it be stupid to defend yourself?

To Joey, EVERYTHING is America's fault.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How do you launch an air attack on China or Russia with a carrier without that carrier sinking by the following missile attack

Haven't played a PC game in twenty years as I prefer playing with numbskulls like you

The CVBG is part strike and part distraction...you follow it up with the entire loadout of an Ohio-class submarine in a depressed-trajectory launch from right off the coast.

 

[HenryBHough]

China is in a nervous holding pattern.

No decision until January 21 as to whether to just grab Taiwan.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Russia has 1 carrier just so they can say they have 1 and test the platform. Russia accepts that it can not protect a carrier from the USA, we should have as much brains. A carrier has to get close enough to the target for it's jets to fly in and back and this is way to close to survive a missile attack. Note that the enemy will not use 1 missile but as many as needed

Russia has not had a blue-water navy since 1905. They have NEVER had a true fleet carrier, just mostly-useless VTOL ships.

 

[WinterBorn]

I think you are assuming an aircraft carrier steams into battle alone. It does not.

A typical carrier task force includes a couple of guided missile cruisers (usually with the Aegis system), a destroyer squadron (2 or 3 guided missile destroyers), and a few fast attack submarines capable of launching Tomahawk missiles capable of long range attacks (just as the guided missile cruisers and guided missile destroyer can).

They also have up to 9 air squadrons. Long before they are anywhere near a hostile area, they launch the E-2 Hawkeyes. They will know any missiles are coming well before they are a threat. Every aircraft and ship has anti-missile capabilities, and will defend the carrier. Just launching missiles at the carrier does not guarantee anything.

This link will provide you with more info:

Five Reasons U.S. Aircraft Carriers Are Nearly Impossible To Sink

Taking one out would be a big achievement for America's enemies, and a big setback for America's military.

nationalinterest.org

.

 

[WinterBorn]

And every enemy knows that any use of nuclear weapons will prompt our SSBN subs to launch their missiles. They will only know where the boomer is when it launches. By the time a response is activated, the multiple warheads are falling.

 

[progressive hunter]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

maybe theyre useless as battleships because they are aircraft carriers,,
just like battleships are useless as aircraft carriers,,,

 

[Unkotare]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

Apples and Oranges. Hong Kong returned to Chinese control back in 1997.

 

[Unkotare]

....

Haven't played a PC game in twenty years as I prefer playing with numbskulls like you

You should give the videogames a try, because you suck at this.

 

[Unkotare]

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

Okay...

I'm all for spending less money on them because we don't need a bloated Military Industrial complex, but if we get into a war with Russia or China, it would be our own stupidity.

WE are at war with China..........................

Ok that's it, you're cut off. Take an Uber home; you're in no condition to drive.

 

[Silver Cat]

Face It, The Mighty U.S. Aircraft Carrier is Finished | The American Conservative

The first step is acknowledging that in a standoff, it could lose, and badly.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Why A New Study Warns That Aircraft Carriers May Be Obsolete (Thanks To Russia And China)

Inexpensive Russian and Chinese weapons, such as cyberwar and antiship missiles, threaten the West’s reliance on expensive arms such as aircraft carriers.

taskandpurpose.com

However is America still wants to invade third World nations like Vietnam and Afghanistan or Somalia a carrier could still be useful. However if the USA attacked China or Russia with a carrier the ship would be sunk in under an hour by land based anti ship missiles that number in the thousands

I think America should be working out how to protect the eventual Communist offensive against Taiwan, Japan and Australia rather than just their own offensive measures.

If they don't take Taiwan by force, they will just swallow them by squeezing them economically, denying them travel in various critical areas they require for trade, bribing and buying politicians (as they do to the West) etc.

China is probably just in wait for the right opportunity. They just took H.K and they are working on squeezing the Aussies and NZ economically right now also, keeping them dependent on them. Once done with these irritants, they will turn their sights elsewhere.

By the time China decides to go on the offensive, they could be too advanced, or too rapid in their activities. Worse, a passive, docile America that decides "it's not worth the economic 'benefit' we enjoy from cheap labour in China, so, unfortunately, you're on your own Taiwan".

China will know when to move, it won't be until they are in a much superior position, economically, geo-politically (they are in a great spot based on the U.N and WTO fiascos) and otherwise. They have to choose to eventually expand though with a focus on economics, but we saw their swift and deliberate move into H.K. 1.4B people and weak Western leadership? Just a matter of time...

The fix is actually quite simple: Taiwan needs to announce...
We have nuclear weapons.
If invaded, the invasion fleet will be attacked with nuclear weapons.
Low-yield nuclear missiles will be used to blow the every large dam in China.
If the invasion cannot be thrown back, every city in mainland China will be glassed by cobalt-jacketed dirty nukes.

There are 661 cities in China (according their definition and used to call "prefectures") and 19,522 of "towns". We need much more nukes than we actually have to glass them all. Say nothing about stupidity of "cobalt-jacked dirty (but weak) nukes".