Afghan teacher shot dead after condemning suicide bombings as un-Islamic

[mattskramer]

Oh fucking puh-lease. Which of the 3-4 abortion clinic bombers in the past 20 years would you be referring to?

I don't know - perhaps one of these"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence#Incidents_in_the_United_States

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest.

June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state.

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers. The attempted murders were:

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.

June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.

October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women's clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.

 

[Annie]

I don't know - perhaps one of these"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence#Incidents_in_the_United_States

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest.

June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state.

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers. The attempted murders were:

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.

June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.

October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women's clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.

Matts, what happened to these criminals? Were they called heroes by other pro-lifers? Are they considered models for any church? Were they applauded as martyrs?

 

[mattskramer]

Matts, what happened to these criminals? Were they called heroes by other pro-lifers? Are they considered models for any church? Were they applauded as martyrs?

You will find people who support them. You will find people who oppose them. With Muslim terrorists, you will find people who support them and you will find Muslims that oppose them. It all comes down to bean-counting.

Anyway, my post was in reply to GunnyL’s challenge: “Which of the 3-4 abortion clinic bombers in the past 20 years would you be referring to?”

 

[jillian]

Matts, what happened to these criminals? Were they called heroes by other pro-lifers? Are they considered models for any church? Were they applauded as martyrs?

You hear the leadership of the anti-choicers condemning them? I don't. The only one that was universally condemned was the psychos who protested gays at soldiers' funerals... and that was because the right was as offended by that as the left because they disrespected the soldiers... not because they thought what they were saying /doing was wrong.

And, again, the point was that they aren't AND SHOULDN'T BE considered representative of all christians same as the radical muslims shouldn't be considered representatives of the larger muslim community.

 

[Annie]

You will find people who support them. You will find people who oppose them. With Muslim terrorists, you will find people who support them and you will find Muslims that oppose them. It all comes down to bean-counting.

Anyway, my post was in reply to GunnyL’s challenge: “Which of the 3-4 abortion clinic bombers in the past 20 years would you be referring to?”

So the oppose/support cancel each other out? Silly, you know which is by far the largest group.

As for the Muslim terrorists, unfortunately their supporters/opposers are an inverse ratio. Bean counting is unnecessary, it's been reported over and over again.

 

[mattskramer]

So the oppose/support cancel each other out? Silly, you know which is by far the largest group.

As for the Muslim terrorists, unfortunately their supporters/opposers are an inverse ratio. Bean counting is unnecessary, it's been reported over and over again.

Typical attempts to put words into my mouth (sigh). I never said that the oppose/support cancel each other out. I grant you that the Muslims that support Muslim terrorists are probably in greater number per capita than are the Christians that support Christian terrorists. I simply don’t participate in absolutist thinking. There are probably some people that wear such rose-colored classes – that let their own preferences cloud their thinking and facts – that they may suggest that no Muslims oppose Muslim terrorism and that all Christians support Christian terrorists.

I don’t play that game. As part of a famous song says, “there is good and bad in everyone”.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Probably? You in fact do wear rose colored glasses. Ones that let you compare thousands to dozens and say hey they are exactly the same. But don't let facts get in the way of YOUR tinted lenses.

 

[mattskramer]

Probably? You in fact do wear rose colored glasses. Ones that let you compare thousands to dozens and say hey they are exactly the same. But don't let facts get in the way of YOUR tinted lenses.

Is it thousands to dozens, hundreds to dozens or tens to dozens? I already concede that there are probably more Muslims that support Moslem terrorists per capita than there are Christians that support Christian terrorists. What difference does it make what the numbers are? What else needs to be said?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Is it thousands to dozens, hundreds to dozens or tens to dozens? I already concede that there are probably more Muslims that support Moslem terrorists per capita than there are Christians that support Christian terrorists. What difference does it make what the numbers are? What else needs to be said?

The simple fact that Millions of Muslims support terror and thousands participate directly in it, compared to the very few Christians that support or participate in it. Ya same thing indeed.

The fact that the west arrests tries and puts in prison terrorists while the Muslim world supports turns murderers into heroes and openly embraces it, ya they are the same alright.

 

[mattskramer]

The simple fact that Millions of Muslims support terror and thousands participate directly in it, compared to the very few Christians that support or participate in it. Ya same thing indeed.

The fact that the west arrests tries and puts in prison terrorists while the Muslim world supports turns murderers into heroes and openly embraces it, ya they are the same alright.

Christians have also knowingly supported Christian terrorists. There are many Muslims that have publicly condemned Muslim terrorists.

Yes. We are comparing apples to apples. Some apples may be ripe or spoiled. Some may be juicy but they are all apples.

 

[Annie]

Typical attempts to put words into my mouth (sigh). I never said that the oppose/support cancel each other out. I grant you that the Muslims that support Muslim terrorists are probably in greater number per capita than are the Christians that support Christian terrorists. I simply don’t participate in absolutist thinking. There are probably some people that wear such rose-colored classes – that let their own preferences cloud their thinking and facts – that they may suggest that no Muslims oppose Muslim terrorism and that all Christians support Christian terrorists.

I don’t play that game. As part of a famous song says, “there is good and bad in everyone”.

Matts, your moral equivalency will work as long as the country's military protects you. I think the sun is getting high on that one, thanks to many.

 

[BrianH]

I can show passages in the Koran that condemn this.

Christians have killed doctors that provide abortions because they think that their Bible / God condone it.

The bible condemns it to genius. "Thou shalt not kill" ...ring a bell??

 

[BrianH]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight... but not like the lunatics who kill doctors and bomb clinics. And not like that good Christian Timothy McVeigh who blew up a federal building or the good christians who thought giving 13 year old girls to old men to rape was acceptable, or the sick sob's who throw jars with fetuses at people, right?

Of course not.

Okie dokie...

I think the point was you don't define a group by it's lunatics.

While I agree with you, these guys are self-proclaimed Christians who don't follow Christian doctines. This is highly similar to Radical Muslims who wharp the Koran and don't fully follow Islam's Doctrines. Other Muslims would condemn the radicals just as quickly as most Christians would condemn the bombing of Abortion clinics. Only someone with an extremely warped mind would do something of this sort. It's kind of a bit ironic. A "pro-life" Christian kills people at an abortion clinic because he thinks killing babies is wrong....? Just a morbid individual.

 

[BrianH]

You will find people who support them. You will find people who oppose them. With Muslim terrorists, you will find people who support them and you will find Muslims that oppose them. It all comes down to bean-counting.

Anyway, my post was in reply to GunnyL’s challenge: “Which of the 3-4 abortion clinic bombers in the past 20 years would you be referring to?”

You forget to mention that a vast MINORITY support them, such as the likes of radical Islamic extremist. A minority of the Muslim population support them. You're generalizing and it's not working. sorry...

 

[BrianH]

You hear the leadership of the anti-choicers condemning them? I don't. The only one that was universally condemned was the psychos who protested gays at soldiers' funerals... and that was because the right was as offended by that as the left because they disrespected the soldiers... not because they thought what they were saying /doing was wrong.

And, again, the point was that they aren't AND SHOULDN'T BE considered representative of all christians same as the radical muslims shouldn't be considered representatives of the larger muslim community.

Jill,

I usually believe you have something good to say, but this post is pretty unwarranted. Just because people to publicly condemn them doesn't mean that they support what happened. UNder this logic, I could say that you support racism, terrorism, etc...because you've never made a public televised speech that you condemn them.

I do agree with your second paragraph.

 

[BrianH]

Is it thousands to dozens, hundreds to dozens or tens to dozens? I already concede that there are probably more Muslims that support Moslem terrorists per capita than there are Christians that support Christian terrorists. What difference does it make what the numbers are? What else needs to be said?

The absolute numbers don't matter. THe sole fact that a minority of both religions support such nonsense is good enough. You can't blindly blame each religion for problems. I'm a Christian, but I can't control the fact that some psychotic sociopath decides to blow up an abortion clinic or a federal building. Does that mean that all Christians are bad and support terrorism??? Timothy McVegh obviously didn't follow the "thou shalt not kill" commandment.

 

[jillian]

Jill,

I usually believe you have something good to say, but this post is pretty unwarranted. Just because people to publicly condemn them doesn't mean that they support what happened. UNder this logic, I could say that you support racism, terrorism, etc...because you've never made a public televised speech that you condemn them.

I do agree with your second paragraph.

The point wasn't to disparage. It was to point out that we shouldn't expect any more of one group than the other. No offense was intended.

 

[Annie]

You hear the leadership of the anti-choicers condemning them? I don't. The only one that was universally condemned was the psychos who protested gays at soldiers' funerals... and that was because the right was as offended by that as the left because they disrespected the soldiers... not because they thought what they were saying /doing was wrong.

And, again, the point was that they aren't AND SHOULDN'T BE considered representative of all christians same as the radical muslims shouldn't be considered representatives of the larger muslim community.

Jillian, I disagree. Those that have attempted or actually committed acts of bombing, shooting people they THOUGHT or even really were connected with performing or receiving abortions have been condemned in prolife churches, prolife newspapers when they occur. I would say that most of us miss those stories, since we don't read those papers. The act of Eric Rudolph I know was condemned in my church, with the point made much later that the wrong was compounded by allowing the other man to be blamed in his stead. Violence for peace and justice, just does not work.

As for the equivalency about Christians and Muslims, while I don't doubt God would agree that all are his, I don't think I made 'representatives' one of the analogies. My point was the reaction of the members in condemning the violence and regarding that, there isn't equivalency.

 

[BrianH]

The point wasn't to disparage. It was to point out that we shouldn't expect any more of one group than the other. No offense was intended.

Oh ok, so we basically agree then. I must have misinterpreted that. Sorry...

 

[jillian]

Oh ok, so we basically agree then. I must have misinterpreted that. Sorry...

Not a problem. I could see where I didn't make myself clear.