Affirmative Action

[JBeukema]

trust no plitician

 

[Immanuel]

the Left has been throwing money at schools for decades. Money is not the problem. the problem os the parents and the people themselves

Maybe money is the problem or at least part of the problem? More money is not always the solution. How (and in this case where) it is spent is the question.

And yes, the left has been throwing money at schools for decades... but the question would be what schools and how is that money used. If my high school, which was an upper middle class high school got a significantly higher portion of the funds than the school across the railroad tracks, then the funds were not equally or equitably distributed. You know, my school really needed that Gym as the old one was 15 years old. Too bad the school across the tracks still have 25 year old textbooks.

Immie

 

[Luissa]

the Left has been throwing money at schools for decades. Money is not the problem. the problem os the parents and the people themselves

Maybe money is the problem or at least part of the problem? More money is not always the solution. How (and in this case where) it is spent is the question.

And yes, the left has been throwing money at schools for decades... but the question would be what schools and how is that money used. If my high school, which was an upper middle class high school got a significantly higher portion of the funds than the school across the railroad tracks, then the funds were not equally or equitably distributed. You know, my school really needed that Gym as the old one was 15 years old. Too bad the school across the tracks still have 25 year old textbooks.

Immie

I agree! We have a high school that is just now being remodeled, it has alittle work over the year but no a major overhaul, it was build I think around 1900. The schools that are in the better neighborhood build in the 50's or later were of course the first ones to get anything new. I remember when I was in high school we got a new practice and wrestling gym when we had the shittiest wrestling team in the league. If you have seen Vision Quest the that is the high school I am talking about being built in the 1900's.

 

[midcan5]

I think you make a valid point, but the reality is SOME people do lose opportunity due to AA, and it ISN'T their choice. The OP is just trying to see if libs will assume the liability they oppose on others. And I think that is the point... it's hypocrisy to impose this on others if you aren't willing to take it on yourself.

Consider though if we acknowledge that discrimination went on for say 150 years, what scale or process do we use now to pick the best candidate? The black person being discriminating against in the past also had no choice. But discrimination in the AA world was for hiring and acceptance, asking the question now is a bit disingenuous. Presenting the option prior to hire/acceptance is a different question.

Money matters as I know teachers in Philly public schools who can tell you how bad the situation is when you don't even have the books for the class and no one really cares. And what is it with this BS 'the left is throwing money' statement??? we all should be 'throwing money' to use this silly biased phrase, at things that matter to this country.

OT Regarding discrimination, there is an excellent book / Movie, "Focus," the movie is actually as good as the book in this case, which gives an interesting picture of discrimination, actually profound example. See it.

Focus (2001/I)

 

[auditor0007]

It's not a valid question.

Affirmative Action does not state that they have to hire a minority over a majority if the minority is not qualified for the job. If they are equally qualified, then the minority could be picked because of the minority status.

More right wing bullshit.

But just for the record, we have been hiring whites for over a hundred years over qualified minorities just because they are white.

Go figger.

I don't know. Whenever I have to deal with government run agencies, and I see the quality of minority workers, I really have to wonder how they couldn't have found someone more qualified, because most of these people are pea brains.

If they are not the pea brains they show themselves as, then they are obviously taking advantage of a free paycheck because they don't believe they actually have to work for it, since their job seems to be protected.

I do know some minorities personally, who are very hard workers, and I also personally know some really lazy ass whites, but the generalization still stands because that is what I see most of the time.

 

[auditor0007]

Question: Would any of the affirmative action supporters on this board ever quit their job so a minority or someone not as qualified could have it?

Despite my feeling on this, the question is not fair. I don't believe anyone would. The question would be more realistic if you asked whether, in applying for a job, someone would object to the job being given to someone of lesser ability in order to fill a quota.

 

[Amanda]

I think you make a valid point, but the reality is SOME people do lose opportunity due to AA, and it ISN'T their choice. The OP is just trying to see if libs will assume the liability they oppose on others. And I think that is the point... it's hypocrisy to impose this on others if you aren't willing to take it on yourself.

Consider though if we acknowledge that discrimination went on for say 150 years, what scale or process do we use now to pick the best candidate? The black person being discriminating against in the past also had no choice. But discrimination in the AA world was for hiring and acceptance, asking the question now is a bit disingenuous. Presenting the option prior to hire/acceptance is a different question.

Money matters as I know teachers in Philly public schools who can tell you how bad the situation is when you don't even have the books for the class and no one really cares. And what is it with this BS 'the left is throwing money' statement??? we all should be 'throwing money' to use this silly biased phrase, at things that matter to this country.

OT Regarding discrimination, there is an excellent book / Movie, "Focus," the movie is actually as good as the book in this case, which gives an interesting picture of discrimination, actually profound example. See it.

Focus (2001/I)

I think the problem with things like AA and reparations is that I'm being asked to pay for the sins of my great great great grandfather. The people affected aren't even with us anymore. I'm from poor, where's my help? It doesn't exist because I'm white. And you know what? I wouldn't want it even if I could get it, because it would be insulting. I know some people will take any handout but I don't think people should be so weak as to accept help if it isn't absolutely critical to survival.

My fav movie about race is "Crash". I think we all have some bias in us and the movie helps to show that even good people can have a bias. I know I have mine.

 

[Sinatra]

I still don't like little people who smell of cabbage...

 

[JBeukema]

I still don't like little people who smell of cabbage...

You don't have to, but you do have to treat them equally in law and business

 

[DiamondDave]

I still don't like little people who smell of cabbage...

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

 

[MaggieMae]

Originally Posted by KMAN
Question: Would any of the affirmative action supporters on this board ever quit their job so a minority or someone not as qualified could have it?

Can't answer the question can you.... typical lib.

Stupid question...typical right wing pea brain

Answer the question.

It is quite valid to those supporting affirmative action.

The question as posed is NOT what "affirmative action" is all about, so it is stupid and only posted to lure people into a nasty racist debate. No, I wouldn't quit my job for that silly reason, and yes, I have not hired nor promoted certain black people solely because they were not qualified. And I never got sued.

That said, I only support affirmative action for consideration of kids wishing to enter college but have no scholarship or other admission credentials other than superior SAT scores who are otherwise turned away. And those wouldn't all be black kids, either.

I think for the most part, affirmative action isn't even practiced in the workplace much anymore. When discrimination is obvious, it can be dealt with in the courts. I also believe the white firemen who are the subject of reverse discrimination before the High Court have a valid case. So there.

 

[MaggieMae]

One's job is Maslovian. I chose food and shelter for me and mine before anything else. Primary survival trumps. People have eaten eachother to survive.

Oooohhhh, Maslovian. Dazzle me with your big words. I did have to look that one up.

 

[MaggieMae]

Anytime a liberal doesn't like the question it's a stupid question.... Yet, they always feel a need to type a smartass answer...

Which is what you're looking for. Um, attention? Pathetic.

 

[MaggieMae]

Of course they don't want to answer. An honest answer would make them look bad.

You could do the same thing with pro-life supporters... How many unwanted, crack addicted babies will you take in? No make what then number they say (and honestly most would say 0) there are always more babies than families so it makes them look bad.

The way I look at abortion is that if men had to give birth, it wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[MaggieMae]

The answer to the question is obvious, and we all know what it is.... NO.... the liberals would NOT quit their job so a less qualified minority could take it. They can't say that though because then that would blow their argument in support of AA. The question is valid, but it is also a ringer.

Well since you're so sure the answer which would inclusively be given by liberals, why not answer the question yourself? And how about KMAN?

The topic is a red herring posted to inflame, not debate affirmative action. What you guys are attempting to do is attack by your misconception that "liberals" say one thing and do another. Good luck with that one, too.

 

[MaggieMae]

.
I think we should do more about giving minorities a better education at primary level so they can get into college on their own merits and than a job the same way.

Are you saying that sending them to the same schools an holding them to the same standards as everyone else isn't working? It sounds like you're implying they're too stupid to learn like the other kids and need special treatment. You're trying to sound like you care, but you just sound like some compassionate and empathetic slave driver going on about the White Man's Burden

It kind of goes with the saying " Give a fish, feed them for a day! Teach them how to fish, feed them for a life time."

They can learn along with everyone else-hell they even have 'magnent' schools that use racist quotas to ensure there's a good mix

The difference in high school learning is huge. If it were not, nobody would even be talking about charter schools or school vouchers. Are you suggesting that Beverly Hills 90210 and a public high school in the L.A. barrio are equal? Please.

 

[MaggieMae]

the Left has been throwing money at schools for decades. Money is not the problem. the problem os the parents and the people themselves

How about No Child left behind? What a joke?.

Just like head start. By the time a child passes the 3rd grade, there are no differences between those who went to head start and those who did not- even when the two children, when one went to head start and the other didn't are of the same age, sex, race, social caste, and 'intellect'

head start and nclb achieve nothing except paying for socialized daycare and making people feel good

That's not true. Head Start is one of the better successes. At the very least it prepares pre-schoolers to compete with first-graders whose parents DID care enough to teach them the basic alphabet and numbers. If children don't have a competitive chance, even that young, they will forever remain behind.

 

[MaggieMae]

the Left has been throwing money at schools for decades. Money is not the problem. the problem os the parents and the people themselves

Maybe money is the problem or at least part of the problem? More money is not always the solution. How (and in this case where) it is spent is the question.

And yes, the left has been throwing money at schools for decades... but the question would be what schools and how is that money used. If my high school, which was an upper middle class high school got a significantly higher portion of the funds than the school across the railroad tracks, then the funds were not equally or equitably distributed. You know, my school really needed that Gym as the old one was 15 years old. Too bad the school across the tracks still have 25 year old textbooks.

Immie

The left hasn't been in charge for "decades." I'm sick to death of seeing every social failure for the past 100 years blamed on "the left."

To your point, bitch to your school board. How your town distributes federal money for education is THEIR problem.

 

[MaggieMae]

I think you make a valid point, but the reality is SOME people do lose opportunity due to AA, and it ISN'T their choice. The OP is just trying to see if libs will assume the liability they oppose on others. And I think that is the point... it's hypocrisy to impose this on others if you aren't willing to take it on yourself.

Consider though if we acknowledge that discrimination went on for say 150 years, what scale or process do we use now to pick the best candidate? The black person being discriminating against in the past also had no choice. But discrimination in the AA world was for hiring and acceptance, asking the question now is a bit disingenuous. Presenting the option prior to hire/acceptance is a different question.

Money matters as I know teachers in Philly public schools who can tell you how bad the situation is when you don't even have the books for the class and no one really cares. And what is it with this BS 'the left is throwing money' statement??? we all should be 'throwing money' to use this silly biased phrase, at things that matter to this country.

OT Regarding discrimination, there is an excellent book / Movie, "Focus," the movie is actually as good as the book in this case, which gives an interesting picture of discrimination, actually profound example. See it.

Focus (2001/I)

I think the problem with things like AA and reparations is that I'm being asked to pay for the sins of my great great great grandfather. The people affected aren't even with us anymore. I'm from poor, where's my help? It doesn't exist because I'm white. And you know what? I wouldn't want it even if I could get it, because it would be insulting. I know some people will take any handout but I don't think people should be so weak as to accept help if it isn't absolutely critical to survival.

My fav movie about race is "Crash". I think we all have some bias in us and the movie helps to show that even good people can have a bias. I know I have mine.

"Crash" is one of the few movies that I've watched three times. It should be required viewing, maybe for High School seniors (because of the language only).

 

[MaggieMae]

The answer to the question is obvious, and we all know what it is.... NO.... the liberals would NOT quit their job so a less qualified minority could take it. They can't say that though because then that would blow their argument in support of AA. The question is valid, but it is also a ringer.

Well since you're so sure the answer which would inclusively be given by liberals, why not answer the question yourself? And how about KMAN?

The topic is a red herring posted to inflame, not debate affirmative action. What you guys are attempting to do is attack by your misconception that "liberals" say one thing and do another. Good luck with that one, too.

Sooooooo, having said that early on, I'm happy to see this thread did indeed develop into a sane conversation about education.