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No offense, but do you really think there is any set of circumstances under which Allie properly relayed what I said?
and I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound as snotty as it came off. But I can do the CV thing, too.
Post edited accordngly.
Didn't mean to offend. I figure you were misquoted. I know you are sharp.
*wink*
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about socialism.I suppose that, to a small degree, we are socialistic
That, folks, says it all.I suppose that this tiny bit of this so-called “slavery” is a good thing.
Federal entitlement programs -- that is, federal welfare -- takes up about 60% of all federal spending, and spent regardless of available revenue.Federal health spending, mostly in the Medicare and
Medicaid programs, has been consuming a growing share of the nations
economic output for several decades.
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about socialism.
That, folks, says it all.
Over 50% of the federal budget going to social spending would put us as a nation right on the brink of a socialist state. Yes but there is still a dim light of captialism still left in our country but it is fading fast.
I keep forgetting that you rarely, if ever, give a straight answer to a question. If you dont realize that a question was asked, Ill give it to you again:
Would you rather do away with every form of government aid (not having one cent go to social security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, or any tiny piece of welfare what so ever)?
I wont hold my breath and wait for an answer to this simple yes-no question.
Those aid programs need to be in place for those who actually NEED them. It is irresponsible as a society to not address the needs of those who are unable to do for themselves.
Which has NOTHING to do with our current government, nor the current status of those aid programs. They're bureacratic ticks, just getting fatter and fatter while bleeding taxpayers dry.
To a rational mind, there IS no straight answer to your question.
Those aid programs need to be in place for those who actually NEED them. It is irresponsible as a society to not address the needs of those who are unable to do for themselves.
Which has NOTHING to do with our current government, nor the current status of those aid programs. They're bureacratic ticks, just getting fatter and fatter while bleeding taxpayers dry.
When you start calling for trimming the fat out of those government agencies that control aid programs, and more stringent review of who is receiving that aid, you might have a more receptive audience.
Instead, you sit on your high horse and try to use some guilt trip logic to take even more money from the people who are involuntarily supporting your corrupt, bloated, perversion of a support system.
As it is, that support system is a cancer. When you cut out a cancer some good tissue goes with it. I would prefer THAT to the current status of that system.
Great I don't think so...
Jeez, and here I thought we had a real breakthrough, like we could agreed that a rich society would help all and spread the wealth. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
"Spread the Wealth and Give Workers a Raise"
http://www.counterpunch.com/whitney04122008.html
With this guy writing your articles, anything is possible....
{ Michael Whitney }
I first started melding politics with the Internet when I created Students for Dean, a national organization of students supporting Howard Dean for President. I bought studentsfordean.org, built a website in Geocities, copied the code over, set up an email address, and within 4 weeks had connected 50 campus groups to collectively organize for Dean.
With the combined efforts of Yoni Cohen and Ryan Beam, we built an even bigger network of 150 groups in 2 months, attracting the attention of Dean's campaign and an invitation to make Students for Dean the official youth organizing effort. We accepted the invitation to Vermont, but on the condition that we retain creative control and day-to-day management of operations.
Generation Dean was born in the summer of 2003 under the excellent leadership of Amanda Michel; I worked full time from my dorm room in between classes, organizing our online and offline communications. Though college campuses were our bread & butter, accounting for more than half of our groups, we also had high school students, punx, snowboarders, young professionals, and even Disney employees create groups on our website. In the end, we had more than 23,000 members and 1,200 groups organizing on their own to support Dean.
He's not partisan at all...idiot
Accomplishments of Liberalism
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what have you done for me? If you are an American citizen, liberalism has done a lot for you. This list is nowhere near complete, but it touches on the highlights of liberalism's proudest accomplishments. Also, notice how many of these have the word "present" for the time frame. This shows that we are still reaping the benefits of these liberal programs today, in 1998. If you have an addition to this list, please send me e-mail. You may also be interested in what conservatives thought about many of these programs.
Interstate Highway System
era: 1950's-present
Proposed by Roosevelt and erected by Eisenhower (a Republican), the Interstate system was a big government project. As much as anything else in the post WWII era, the Interstate is responsible for tremendous economic growth, prosperity, and has spawned an entire culture.
GI Bill
era: 1950's
This act of Congress enabled millions upon millions of Americans to get college educations, something that most Americans had never had the opportunity to do previously. An entire generation of leaders, scientists, and business people owe their education to the GI Bill.
Labor Laws
era: 1930's-present
An end to child labor, 40 hour work weeks, the right of employees to collectively bargain, overtime pay, workplace safety, all of the things we take for granted today are thanks to liberal laws passed in the first half of this century. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against the end of sweatshops and exploitation.
Marshall Plan
era: late 1940's-1950's
Foreign aid is a popular scapegoat these days. Those who would cut it should look back at the Marshall Plan, which rebuilt Europe, and is the major reason that Communism never made it past East Berlin.
Environmental Laws
era: 1970's-present
The environment has gotten much better in the last 30 years thanks to liberals. Bald Eagles fly once again thanks to endangered species laws, most rivers and lakes are clean again due to anti-pollution laws, and frequent smog days are a thing of the past in most big American cities.
Food safety laws
era: 1910's-present
Ever read Sinclair's "The Jungle?" That's what things were really like before food purity laws were on the books. Today cases of food poisoning are rare, and consumers know that whatever they buy is safe to eat.
Workplace safety laws
era: 1930's-present
Long hours in unsafe conditions are much rarer today than in the past. Tragedies such as the Triangle Shirtwaist fire and child labor have been eliminated by liberal and progressive legislation.
Social Security
era: 1930's-1970's
This program has provided three generations of Americans retirement benefits, and nearly eliminated poverty among the elderly. The program is weakening now, but for 50 years it did its job to a T.
Economic Growth
era: 1950's-1960's
Liberalism and economic prosperity go hand-in-hand. Unlike the pseudo-boom of the 1980's, the 1950's and 1960's were a period of sustained and real growth for all sectors of the economy and all social classes. Taxes were fair, government worked, and America prospered under both Democratic and Republican administrations
Space Program
era: 1950's-present
It was Kennedy who challenged us to make it to the moon, and it is under his and Johnson's administrations that the space program took off, with numerous benefits to American industry and peoples' standard of living, not to mention national pride. If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going.
Peace corps
era: 1960's-present
Kennedy inspired thousands of Americans to ask what they could do for their country, and the Peace Corps is his most visible and effective legacy
Civil rights movement
era: 1950's-present
Liberal ideals drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. All Americans who believe in freedom and opportunity cannot help but be inspired by the valiant struggles of MLK and others. Also recall if you will that the major opponents of civil rights were conservatives.
The fight against Totalitarianism
era: always
World War II was fought by all Americans; liberals and conservatives fought together the evil of Nazism. The ideal we fought for was freedom and the dignity of the individual against totalitarianism. Under the leadership of Roosevelt and Truman, we won. But the battle is never over, so we must remain vigilant.
The Internet
era: 1960's-present
Not a liberal program per se, but rather a government one, which many equate as the same thing. The internet is a good example of what a government program can do when allowed to work.
The Tennessee Valley project
era: 1930's
The Depression-era government program bought electricity to thousands of impoverished families in Appalachia, prevented floods, and created thousands of new jobs.
Women's right to vote
era: 1920's-present
Before 1920, half of America's population could not exercise the essential duty of citizenship.
Universal Public Education
era: 1890's-present
The reason America is so strong economically is because we have a well-educated citizenry. Public schooling is the true melting pot of America, where every student, regardless of economic background can be taught the basics of citizenship. It is no coincidence that in the last 20 years, as conservatives have greatly weakened the public school system, that American students have scored lower on tests and our civic society has started to unravel.
National Weather Service
era: 1930's-present
This is one of those things you never think about, but you are glad its there. Far from just forecasting the weather, the NWS also provides vital data to pilots and sailors, and the NWS satellites and observation posts provide the raw data that all other weather forecasting services (private ones too!) depend on.
Scientific Research
era: 1940's-present
Much of the great discoveries in science have come about through grants from the government. This is not to say that scientific genius depends on Washington, but the fact remains that pure science is expensive, and private industry will often not fund experiments which don't have a direct commercial potential. From Salk's polio vaccine to todays Human Genome Project and Hubble Space Telescope, the government is an important partner in scientific discovery.
Product Labeling/Truth in Advertising Laws
era: 1910's-present
"We take it for granted that if a claim is made publicly for a product, it's reasonable to assume it's true. Plus, every time we check the ingredients on a can or package of food, we should mentally call down blessings on the liberals who passed the necessary legislation over the anguished howls of the conservatives, who were convinced such info would be prohibitively expensive, and too big a burden on business."
Public Health
era: 1910's-present
Government funded water and sewage systems are an important part of modernity. In addition, organizations such as the National Institute of Health and the Center for Disease Control play an important part in maintaining the national health and preventing epidemics through research, vaccination programs, etc.
Morrill Land Grant Act
era: late 1800's
This act is the reason why nearly every state in the Union has a large public university. These centers of learning have educated untold millions of Americans. If you went to a school with a state name in it, then you were helped by liberalism.
Rural Electrification
era: 1930's-1960's
This allowed remote, rural areas of the country the basic convinience of electricity. I am sure that those of us using computers on the internet, sitting in our air conditioned homes, under our electric lights consider electricity a basic necessity - one that the pure market would never have found profitable to provide to isolated farming communities.
Public Universities
era: 1890's-present day
Put a college education within the reach of nearly every American. In addition to education, many of these institutions have played key roles in all kinds of scientific research and been a strong influence on our entire society.
Bank Deposit Insurance
era: 1930's-present day
About 1934, as part of extensive New Deal banking legislation, Congress created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to provide federal insurance for bank deposits. This was instrumental in restoring confidence in our nation's banks, and remains so to this day.
Earned Income Tax Credit
era: 1970's-present day
Reduces the tax burden for working families who make under $28,500.00 You have to earn income to get it. It is not a handout. It's a great incentive for families to stay off welfare. But the atmosphere has changed in Washington, and Republicans had to find a way to pay for their capital-gains tax cut, and EITC was their ticket to success. So, the Republicans voted to cut this program by $29 billion over a certain time frame. Well guess what? They just raised the taxes on lower income working families.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
era: 1940's-present day
The world's foremost authority and defense against infectious disease and epidemic is a department of the United States government.
Family and Medical Leave Act
era: 1993-present day
This is a program which mandates that you have the right to job leave to take care of sick family members, or to have a child. Many conservatives were opposed to this valuable piece of legislation. Perhaps they were opposed to family values?
Consumer Product Safety Commission
era: 1972-present day
These guys regulate consumer products for safety. Everything from sharp (and edible) baby toys to flammable pjamas have been taken off the market due to the work of this commission.
Public Broadcasting
era: 1930's-present day
Millions of our children have learned from shows like Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, and Mister Rogers (and so many more). Millions of adults continue to learn from shows like Nova. Also, the best broadcast journalism is by far National Public Radio. PBS and NPR have served to enrich our national culture.
Americans With Disabilities Act
era: 1990-present day
Civil rights for disabled citizens. It is fair, just, and it is the law of the land. Credit where credit is due, former Senator Bob Dole helped push this through, a rare nod in favor of liberalism from Mr. Dole.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not to say that Liberalism is perfect. Far from it. Like any ideology, it must be constantly on guard for signs of internal decay, and must embrace change in order to remain relevant in a changing world.
Moderation in aid and other assistance programs should be the norm. But if politicians are too stupid to do this right all the time, doesn't negate the benefit of the programs.
Here are some more:
http://www.turnleft.com/libgood.html
The error here is in the assumption that these are all liberal ideals or that they were all instituted by liberals. Both FDR and JFK for instance were far right of George W. Bush in their personal ideologies.
If you are speaking of classical liberalism, yes, most of these things could be attributed to that, but modern conservatism, not modern liberalism, is the grandchild of classical liberalism.
I think it is important to be clear on the specific ideology being described.
Moderation in aid and other assistance programs should be the norm. But if politicians are too stupid to do this right all the time, doesn't negate the benefit of the programs.
Here are some more:
http://www.turnleft.com/libgood.html
Please say that you're not saying that FDR and JFK were to the right of Bush...That was a typo, right?
Now, if you want to talk about party shifts, Nixon was so far to the left of current repubs that he'd be considered left even for a dem.
So yes, it is important that we're specific.
Your question refers to the US.I keep forgetting that you rarely, if ever, give a straight answer to a question. If you don’t realize that a question was asked...
