Accomplishments of Liberalism

[Paulie]

Part of the problem here is, many of the politicians and the two parties didn't split along the ideological lines we see today. Also you have to separate what a grassroots liberal or conservative professes, and what elected liberals/conservatives vote for--they are often not the same thing.

Jefferson viewed the states as independent nations, as most people did back then. This would put him in the radically conservative camp today. But he was an agnostic, and he opposed entangling alliances and a big military. Was he a conservative, or liberal?

Lincoln was against slavery, so he's a liberal, right? But he was perfectly willing to sign an amendment keeping it legal forever, if the southern states would stay. Hmm, he must have been a conservative, for his day. He was also against it in order to protect white labor (liberal?), and to keep new states free of blacks (conservative?). In fact, he was obsessed with shipping the blacks back to africa.

He supported a state bank issuing fiat currency, government railroads, big spending internal improvement programs of all sorts. Ah ha, he's a liberal. But he was also a railroad lawyer, a big-business merchantilist like Hamilton and Henry Clay, and wanted protectionist tariffs. Liberal? Conservative? Proto-fascist?

Woodrow Wilson signed the income tax. Yay, liberal! He also signed the Federal Reserve act. Yep, he's a liberal, looking to prevent banking panics. Err wait, the legislation was written by the wealthiest men in the world, in secret, on Jekyll Island, Georgia. Hmm, maybe he is a conservative...conservative politicians would support that, but the grassroots wouldn't...He villified minorities, so yeah. But many progressives did that, and supported eugenics. Hmm.

He got us into a war with the loftiest of ideals, seeking to spread freedom and democracy and bring down monarchy. Is that liberal or conservative, I can't remember. He was also a JP Morgan man, who was facing bankrupcy if the allies lost and defaulted on their war loans.

Thread officially over.

 

[Gunny]

Accomplishments of liberalism ...

1. Flag burning
2. Abortion
3. yellow journalism
4. Jimmy Carter
5. welfare
6. labor unions
7. a double standard on every issue worthy of note
8. perpetuating lies until some people actually believe they are historically correct
9. Winning the Presidency for a total of 12 years out of 32
10. The collapse of South Vietnam
11. illegal immigrants
12. gay marriage

Yeah ... y'all are on a roll. Could you slow down though? When this nation finally implodes I'd like for it to be after my tour is over.

 

[jillian]

Accomplishments of liberalism ...

1. Flag burning
2. Abortion
3. yellow journalism
4. Jimmy Carter
5. welfare
6. labor unions
7. a double standard on every issue worthy of note
8. perpetuating lies until some people actually believe they are historically correct
9. Winning the Presidency for a total of 12 years out of 32
10. The collapse of South Vietnam
11. illegal immigrants
12. gay marriage

Yeah ... y'all are on a roll. Could you slow down though? When this nation finally implodes I'd like for it to be after my tour is over.

What silliness....

 

[midcan5]

Accomplishments of liberalism ...

1. Flag burning - Freedom of Speech
2. Abortion - Individual right
3. yellow journalism - prove it
4. Jimmy Carter - our only religious and moral president
5. welfare - a great Christian/Jewish/Muslim/Other thing to help others
6. labor unions - provided the highest living standard in the world
7. a double standard on every issue worthy of note - vague and kinda stupid comment
8. perpetuating lies until some people actually believe they are historically correct - ditto
9. Winning the Presidency for a total of 12 years out of 32 - you see the results first hand - deficits war poverty
10. The collapse of South Vietnam - funny as they are now trading partners, is that collapse
11. illegal immigrants - huh? business wants them to make American wages lower - see #6
12. gay marriage - another right under the constitution for everyone

All good things, you got anything else except those biased glasses that look backward?

 

[jillian]

It's like the right-wing version of beer goggles.

 

[midcan5]

You can call Social Securtity as an accomplishment of liberals....and most educated people will laugh at you! Defecits are caused by over 50% of federal government spending going to liberal social programs. Yes the liberals are great.

We agree on something. Those programs are great.

 

[Diuretic]

It's like the right-wing version of beer goggles.

 

[M14 Shooter]

We have social security. We have Medicare and Medicaid. We have government programs to help the poor. I guess we are a liberal slave socialist state.

Exactly right.
These programs force you to provide means to others.
Thus, slavery.

 

[AllieBaba]

And penalize people for making money.

 

[manifold]

Exactly right.
These programs force you to provide means to others.
Thus, slavery.

Well then, allow me to employ a favorite neocon tactic...


If you don't like it here, get the fuck out!!

 

[CrimsonWhite]

"Nazi" is a liberal party.

Back to school junior.

Communist--->liberal----->centrist----->conservative----->Nazi

"You cannot debate those whom you have to educate."

 

[AllieBaba]

Nah, remember, conservative is a relative term. Nazis were a departure from the usual, hence not conservative...but liberal.

I learned that from Jillian.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I hold a B.S in political science and am in my third of law school. I learned in my studies exactly what I posted before. So, with that said and no offense to Jillian, but I'll take my six and half years of school over your interpretation of jillian's words.

 

[mattskramer]

Exactly right.
These programs force you to provide means to others.
Thus, slavery.

I suppose that, to a small degree, we are socialistic. Yet, we are also capitalistic. We are still relatively free to climb the proverbial career ladder – strive for promotions and raises in salary as we see fit. We are relatively free and able to choose what career path to follow. I guess that we agree in a sense. I simply get annoyed by extremist rhetoric. I suppose that this tiny bit of this so-called “slavery” is a good thing. Would you rather do away with every form of government aid (not having one cent go to social security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, or any tiny piece of welfare what so ever)? You very well might, but I doubt it. I doubt that most people would support such a notion.

Unless you believe that there should be no government assistance under any and all circumstances what so ever, we both believe in slavery to a degree. Therefore, the question is not whether or not to draw the line, but where to draw the line.

 

[mattskramer]

Well then, allow me to employ a favorite neocon tactic...


If you don't like it here, get the fuck out!!

Now now. That is a statement that I often hear from conservatives angry when liberals criticize a Republican administration. It is so fallacious. I like America, even with a president such as Bush. America is still one of the greatest Nations in the world in my opinion. Yet, it can be improved upon. We each have different ideas on what America needs in order to be a better nation. Some people thing that the tax system should be adjusted so that the wealthier people pay a higher percentage of the income in taxes. Some people think that there should be more of a flat tax. Some people think that there should be more personal freedom such as the legalization of marijuana, prostitution, and other vices. Some people think that there should be more restrictions on such risky things. Whether you are a reasonable liberal or conservative, I think that most of us understand that America is a great place that can be made even better. Can’t we calm down a little bit on the rhetoric and bad language?

 

[jillian]

I hold a B.S in political science and am in my third of law school. I learned in my studies exactly what I posted before. So, with that said and no offense to Jillian, but I'll take my six and half years of school over jillian.

No offense, but do you really think there is any set of circumstances under which Allie properly relayed what I said?

and I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound as snotty as it came off. But I can do the CV thing, too.

 

[Ravi]

No offense, but do you really think there is any set of circumstances under which Allie properly relayed what I said?

and I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound as snotty as it came off. But I can do the CV thing, too.

A BS in pol sci.

Now, that's funny.

 

[jillian]

A BS in pol sci.

Now, that's funny.

 

[jreeves]

I suppose that, to a small degree, we are socialistic. Yet, we are also capitalistic. We are still relatively free to climb the proverbial career ladder – strive for promotions and raises in salary as we see fit. We are relatively free and able to choose what career path to follow. I guess that we agree in a sense. I simply get annoyed by extremist rhetoric. I suppose that this tiny bit of this so-called “slavery” is a good thing. Would you rather do away with every form of government aid (not having one cent go to social security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, or any tiny piece of welfare what so ever)? You very well might, but I doubt it. I doubt that most people would support such a notion.

Unless you believe that there should be no government assistance under any and all circumstances what so ever, we both believe in slavery to a degree. Therefore, the question is not whether or not to draw the line, but where to draw the line.

Over 50% of the federal budget going to social spending would put us as a nation right on the brink of a socialist state. Yes but there is still a dim light of captialism still left in our country but it is fading fast.

 

[jreeves]

We agree on something. Those programs are great.

Federal health spending, mostly in the Medicare and
Medicaid programs, has been consuming a growing share of the nation’s
economic output for several decades. Costs per beneficiary, even after adjusting
for changes in the population, have, on average, increased about 2.5 percentage
points faster than has average per capita GDP.2 The rate of growth in health costs
is unusually difficult to project, but even if growth falls well below historical
levels, spending on Medicare and Medicaid will continue to grow faster than the
economy and faster than other major government programs.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/78xx/doc7851/03-08-Long-Term Spending.pdf
Great I don't think so...