Abortion rights

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Wolfmann, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Wolfmann
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    Wolfmann Member

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    Hello

    I realize there is already a thread on this issue but I wanted to propose something and not have to search through the 10,000 comments in the other thread.

    If the Right to Life people are so hell bent against abortion I have a modest suggestion.

    Make abortions illegal in the country except for rape and incest but on the conditions that the mother of the child indicates on a form that if she had the choice she would have gotten an abortion and that the right to lifers to any of the following:

    1. Adoption those unwanted children who otherwise would have been aborted NO MATTER WHAT THEIR PHYSICAL OR MENTAL CONDITION IS.

    2. Provide full funding to adopt those children by others.

    Please don't tell me that the RTL people already do this I live in the south and the most effort they do is "adoption counseling" which is nothing more than convincing mostly scared teens not to have an abortion.

    This was not my idea but the idea of a conservative woman who was willing to put her money and beliefs where her mouth was.

    If the RTL people believe that it is their moral and religious obligation to prevent as many abortions as possible it then stands that they have a moral and religious obligation to do everything in their power to make sure these unwanted babies have a home where they will be brought up right.

    For the record I do not support all types of abortion. I do not support what I call "recreational abortion" where a woman gets pregnant after screwing around over and over again. I have very radical views on how to deal with that. I have other reservations also but I won't go into them.

    I support abortion in cases of rape and incest and when the quality of life of the future child is threatened or at risk either physically or mentally.

    Edited.

    Thanks

    Wolfman 24
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  2. sealadaigh
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    sealadaigh BANNED

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    human life begins at conception.
    human life ends at death.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  3. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Diamond Member

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    The problem is quality of life, how to define it and who is doing the judging.
     
  4. sealadaigh
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    sealadaigh BANNED

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    i think you have to start with the basic science first.
     
  5. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Diamond Member

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    Unnecessary. Quality of life is not quantifiable with science. Ask Stephen Hawking if he would simply prefer to have been put down when he was diagnosed, like a dog that had gotten a deadly disease.
     
  6. sealadaigh
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    sealadaigh BANNED

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    i never said quality of life could or should be determined scientifically.

    what i am saying is that people need to recognise that human life begins with conception and that that is a scientific fact.

    i think who does or does not want to be put down "like a dog" for whatever reason at some point in their life has nothing to do with anything other than some people decide that they do not want to live and some people decide that they do want to live.
     
  7. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    My personal opinion on the issue is that I am Pro Life, through persuasion, not mandate. Just like driving a car, if Abortion is to remain legal, there are obvious guide lines. Both obvious and not so obvious Do's and Dont's. We are a Nation of Laws, Governed, for the most part by the consent of the Governed.
     
  8. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Diamond Member

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    I misunderstood the intent of your post.

    Intense has it correctly. We have had decades of "persuading" people of the benefits of killing their children.

    I started out as an abortion advocate. To this day I accept that a woman can be so desperate and hopeless that suicide is a considered option. Abortion escaped those confines years ago. It has become grotesque and absurd. It has become the preferable way of ending pregnancy. Women who choose to have live babies instead of dead ones have become the enemy of other women. To the point where the dead baby is so important that the cost should be shifted onto the general public as a matter of right.

    I know a family that has a daughter born without a brain stem. She has never been more than a vegetable and will never be more than a vegetable. She has no idea that she is even alive. Yet her mother and father continue to care for her. They feed her, dress her, change her diapers and she's 30 years old. The father is a respected doctor and they knew before she was born that she was not developing a brain stem. They chose to have this baby and chose to care for her but not because they are against abortion. They made this choice because they love her.

    We don't make those decisions anymore. We no longer love our children, they are either convenient or not convenient with no intrinsic value of their own. That's what abortion has become and it is utterly, utterly evil with no redeeming value whatsoever.
     
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  9. sealadaigh
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    sealadaigh BANNED

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    back in a time when abortion was illegal, slavery was legal.

    currently, in some states, the death penalty is legal. in others it is illegal.

    united states citizens under the age of 18 are governed.

    certain rights of our citizens are protected from legal abuses initiated by the consent of the governed..

    i am not clear as to what pro-life, pro-choice, and whatever various permutations that are available actually mean. i think many of these labels/descriptions are emotionally evocative. it sounds like "Pro Life, through persuasion, not mandate" means that you think women should have a right to have an abortion?

    i think "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion" are pretty clear and the guidelines can easily be applied to those terms.

    i keep coming back to my fact though, and that is that human life begins at conception. and i also think that a lot of people ignore that fact deliberately, but that is where the discussion needs to start.
     
  10. sealadaigh
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    sealadaigh BANNED

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    i think, really, people have to deal with the science before they deal with the morality. people are not killing their children. people are killing human life that is in the form of a foetus. a human foetus is not a child but it is a human, just as you and i are humans.
     

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