Abortion results in ptsd, and is worse for those with a history of trauma.

[koshergrl]

Or advising them that if they accidentally get pregnant, they will have to deal. That's pretty effective, too.

 

[freedombecki]

Thank you, koshergrl. I can only pray the coming generation will decide they will be excited about bringing about new life and providing an environment that will cause their children to be excited about new life, too. I'm sorry my childrens' lives will not be enriched by their having children. While I mourn having no grandchildren, it's my cross to bear, and I cope by doing as many anonymous good deeds for children in the community as I can.

 

[koshergrl]

All children are a blessing and a gift. It's a shame some people think they must be PLANNED to be so, and even more of a shame that there are a lot of people who think certain children have no value at all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am sure that women that have had multiple abortions; which is basically legal murder, do not suffer from feelings of guild.

They are the same as serial killers that have no remorse for their victims and rarely suffer from guilt.

They don't consider it murder because they don't see a victim. I hate to get real about abortion. I personally have a strong tendency toward the pro life position. That might be one of the reasons why I find it vitally important not to lie but tell the truth about abortion. The more the pro life people avoid the true facts, the worse it becomes.

At the stage that most abortions take place, the fetus looks like a blood clot of a size that would fit in a teaspoon. I know that the pro life position is that it's tearing off arms and leg and little limbs are being forcepted out of the birth canal. Again, most abortions take place much too early to have little arms and legs. So no, women don't look at that spot of blood and see a victim so they don't have anything to feel guilty about.

May I ask what "looks like" has to do with "real facts"? Sounds to me like YOU are trying to avoid the real facts, ie. that a fetus is a human being, by saying, "Oh, but it looks like . . ." I thought humanity had matured and become more intelligent than to dismiss someone's true nature on the basis of appearance.

But I'm glad that the Denial Party has managed to convince women that they aren't killing a human being as long as he looks a certain way.

And while we're on the subject of things you're being disingenuous about, it's less than honest to say, "At the stage most abortions take place, the fetus looks like a blood clot", and "most abortions take place too early for arms and legs". The stage at which most abortions take place is 6-12 weeks (or 4-10 weeks after conception, in other words), which is a rather large range, and one which includes an enormous amount of rapid growth, including the development of arms and legs. So unless a woman got INCREDIBLY lucky and found out she was pregnant more or less IMMEDIATELY after she conceived, her fetus does, indeed, have arms and legs. Also, by about week 9, that'd have to be a mighty big freaking blood clot to compare in size. He is certainly recognizable to the naked eye as more than just a blood clot, since the two methods of abortion used during this time period do include the step of the doctor visually ascertaining that all parts have been removed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I could never do it. I would think about it for the rest of my life, about that little human being, what he or she might have grown up to become.
Maybe a great singer or musician
A great scientist
A great President
Or even maybe another great inventor of something.

Or maybe just a sweet, loving child whose face lights up when you walk into the room and he throws himself into your arms. I know that there are times when my three-year-old does that to his daddy, and his daddy thinks about the baby his ex-fiancee chose to abort. I'd give anything to take that pain and grief away for him, but after 20-something years, I know nothing ever will entirely.

 

[Sunshine]

All children are a blessing and a gift. It's a shame some people think they must be PLANNED to be so, and even more of a shame that there are a lot of people who think certain children have no value at all.

Including these?

Unbelievable: Mother of 15 Kids Says "Somebody Needs to Pay; Somebody Needs to Be Held Accountable"

 

[Cecilie1200]

Right. Next people will be whinning about their traumatic wart removal. PTSD is too serious a problem to be trivialized.

What a coincidence. So is abortion. So I will thank you not to equate the killing of an innocent child with removing a wart.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Being forced to give birth to a baby that was conceived by rape is a tough call. How often it happens is a subject for debate. The fact of the matter however is that millions of women undergo abortions every year and it stands to reason that many women suffer lasting physical and mental effects. You won't see much discussion about it simply because the liberal media supports abortion.

Not only that, but I would imagine a lot of those women don't talk much about it, because they think they're supposed to be okay with it and that people won't want to hear that they aren't.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Truth and justice. The American way. Reality. Life brings hard choices and hard lessons. America does not STAND for abortion. It allows it because a woman has a right to what happens to her body. No one believes abortion is a good thing. No one is allowed to make that decision for a woman citizen but her.

A woman has a right to make decisions about her body. Not about anyone else's, even if it happens to be housed in hers.

Her desires do not trump basic human rights.

Squatting is against the law. If you don't own the property you don't get to live there if the owner wants you out.

But amazingly enough, you also don't get to drag someone into your house against their will, and THEN accuse them of squatting. We also, noticeably, don't give people the death penalty for trespassing.

Pregnancy isn't squatting. It isn't like, or even really analogous to anything else on Earth except for itself.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A woman has a right to make decisions about her body. Not about anyone else's, even if it happens to be housed in hers.

Her desires do not trump basic human rights.

you are a fucking retard

At this point, I think it's fairly obvious the pro-abortionists have given up any pretense of actually debating.

No offense, KG, but that was obvious to me fifteen years ago.

 

[The Gadfly]

From the very study you have cited:

"The weight of evidence suggests that women who freely choose to terminate a pregnancy are unlikely to experience significant mental health risks."

As a matter of fact, that disclaimer is in fact the preface to the entire study, is it not? And, that is because, that is precisely what the overwhelming majority of medical studies on the subject have concluded, is it not? Why else do you think the authors of the study thus prefaced the entire thing?

Damn, why did I know that a careful reading of your chosen source would show that once again you are being selectively disingenuous? In fact, does the source you cited ever claim to prove that "abortion causes PTSD"? In fact, the study you cited does no such thing, nor does it even attempt to do so! In fact, the data gathered is NOT sufficient to support such a conclusion, is it? The truth is, you glommed on to one or two sentences which, taken out of context, would seem to imply the conclusion you wanted, and presented THAT as some kind of medical "proof", which the authors never intended. You call ME a moron? READ your sources more carefully, you silly twit, because I promise you, every single time I catch you in a lie or distortion of facts, and/or taking material from a source out of the original context, I am going to point it out! Is there any level of dishonesty to which you will not stoop, in a vain attempt to "prove" your factually inaccurate point(s)?

That is the action of a true fanatic, whether political or religious; any, and I do mean ANY, means to the desired end, never mind the truth, never mind the facts, never mind the scientific/medical evidence, or even any integrity in quoting or interpreting your source material(s).

 

[Cecilie1200]

Because your personal knowledge, colored by your bias, trumps the studies.

Got it.

Incidentally, I also know a lot of women who have gotten abortions. And what I know completely supports what I'm reading in the journals.

Nothing like using personal knowledge, coloured by your bias to support something, eh. My word, your hypocrisy knows no bounds. Carry on, though. It's great watching someone make themselves a laughing stock.

There's nothing "hypocritical" about saying, "Well, if you want to favor anecdotal 'evidence' over scientific, then I have anecdotes, too, so that's still not going to save you". But thanks for letting us know there's yet another word the left wants to redefine to suit themselves.

 

[rdean]

Abused children and dead babies is the result of forced birth. Do I even need to go look up the statistics? It's common sense. If Republicans are so concerned they should be promoting adoptions and put their money where their big mouths are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Abortion does not result in PTSD unless preformed with a chainsaw.

I see. And your blank assertion to that effect trumps all the studies because of WHAT scientific expertise in this area?

 

[Cecilie1200]

All children are a blessing and a gift. It's a shame some people think they must be PLANNED to be so, and even more of a shame that there are a lot of people who think certain children have no value at all.

I can tell you for a fact that I didn't plan a single one of my three children. They all just showed up whenever God decided they needed to exist, sometimes with what was extremely bad timing in regards to my life situation. Doesn't matter, though, because every single one of them was and is wonderful.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Or advising them that if they accidentally get pregnant, they will have to deal. That's pretty effective, too.

And what if they don't want to? What if they want an abortion? What if they get one?

 

[The Gadfly]

I am sure that women that have had multiple abortions; which is basically legal murder, do not suffer from feelings of guild.

They are the same as serial killers that have no remorse for their victims and rarely suffer from guilt.

They don't consider it murder because they don't see a victim. I hate to get real about abortion. I personally have a strong tendency toward the pro life position. That might be one of the reasons why I find it vitally important not to lie but tell the truth about abortion. The more the pro life people avoid the true facts, the worse it becomes.

At the stage that most abortions take place, the fetus looks like a blood clot of a size that would fit in a teaspoon. I know that the pro life position is that it's tearing off arms and leg and little limbs are being forcepted out of the birth canal. Again, most abortions take place much too early to have little arms and legs. So no, women don't look at that spot of blood and see a victim so they don't have anything to feel guilty about.

May I ask what "looks like" has to do with "real facts"? Sounds to me like YOU are trying to avoid the real facts, ie. that a fetus is a human being, by saying, "Oh, but it looks like . . ." I thought humanity had matured and become more intelligent than to dismiss someone's true nature on the basis of appearance.

But I'm glad that the Denial Party has managed to convince women that they aren't killing a human being as long as he looks a certain way.

And while we're on the subject of things you're being disingenuous about, it's less than honest to say, "At the stage most abortions take place, the fetus looks like a blood clot", and "most abortions take place too early for arms and legs". The stage at which most abortions take place is 6-12 weeks (or 4-10 weeks after conception, in other words), which is a rather large range, and one which includes an enormous amount of rapid growth, including the development of arms and legs. So unless a woman got INCREDIBLY lucky and found out she was pregnant more or less IMMEDIATELY after she conceived, her fetus does, indeed, have arms and legs. Also, by about week 9, that'd have to be a mighty big freaking blood clot to compare in size. He is certainly recognizable to the naked eye as more than just a blood clot, since the two methods of abortion used during this time period do include the step of the doctor visually ascertaining that all parts have been removed.

You also left out vestigial gills and a tail. It is still somewhere between a simple mass of cells, and a fully sentient, conscious human being; though it potentially would become the latter at some later point, IT ISN'T, not yet, any more than a fertilized embryo is. What you really can't get around, is that it lacks a developed, functioning cerebral cortex, and therefore is not self-aware. So much for the "abortion is murder" argument, which is an appeal to emotion rather than reason in the first place. In fact, any fully gestated baby primate has a higher degree of cerebral development and function than a human fetus at that stage, but we don't insist that those are "human life", now do we? The truth is, that argument (abortion=infanticide) is only valid if one concedes the "accuracy" (it is nothing of the sort) of the false, emotionally-driven first premise.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Postpartum depression is at least as frequent.

And it's more dangerous to have a baby than to have an abortion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

All children are a blessing and a gift. It's a shame some people think they must be PLANNED to be so, and even more of a shame that there are a lot of people who think certain children have no value at all.

Including these?

Unbelievable: Mother of 15 Kids Says "Somebody Needs to Pay; Somebody Needs to Be Held Accountable"

Sounds to me like the MOTHER became worthless at some point, not the kids.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They don't consider it murder because they don't see a victim. I hate to get real about abortion. I personally have a strong tendency toward the pro life position. That might be one of the reasons why I find it vitally important not to lie but tell the truth about abortion. The more the pro life people avoid the true facts, the worse it becomes.

At the stage that most abortions take place, the fetus looks like a blood clot of a size that would fit in a teaspoon. I know that the pro life position is that it's tearing off arms and leg and little limbs are being forcepted out of the birth canal. Again, most abortions take place much too early to have little arms and legs. So no, women don't look at that spot of blood and see a victim so they don't have anything to feel guilty about.

May I ask what "looks like" has to do with "real facts"? Sounds to me like YOU are trying to avoid the real facts, ie. that a fetus is a human being, by saying, "Oh, but it looks like . . ." I thought humanity had matured and become more intelligent than to dismiss someone's true nature on the basis of appearance.

But I'm glad that the Denial Party has managed to convince women that they aren't killing a human being as long as he looks a certain way.

And while we're on the subject of things you're being disingenuous about, it's less than honest to say, "At the stage most abortions take place, the fetus looks like a blood clot", and "most abortions take place too early for arms and legs". The stage at which most abortions take place is 6-12 weeks (or 4-10 weeks after conception, in other words), which is a rather large range, and one which includes an enormous amount of rapid growth, including the development of arms and legs. So unless a woman got INCREDIBLY lucky and found out she was pregnant more or less IMMEDIATELY after she conceived, her fetus does, indeed, have arms and legs. Also, by about week 9, that'd have to be a mighty big freaking blood clot to compare in size. He is certainly recognizable to the naked eye as more than just a blood clot, since the two methods of abortion used during this time period do include the step of the doctor visually ascertaining that all parts have been removed.

You also left out vestigial gills and a tail. It is still somewhere between a simple mass of cells, and a fully sentient, conscious human being; though it potentially would become the latter at some later point, IT ISN'T, not yet, any more than a fertilized embryo is. What you really can't get around, is that it lacks a developed, functioning cerebral cortex, and therefore is not self-aware. So much for the "abortion is murder" argument, which is an appeal to emotion rather than reason in the first place. In fact, any fully gestated baby primate has a higher degree of cerebral development and function than a human fetus at that stage, but we don't insist that those are "human life", now do we? The truth is, that argument (abortion=infanticide) is only valid if one concedes the "accuracy" (it is nothing of the sort) of the false, emotionally-driven first premise.

They have neither vestigial gills nor a tail. These are misnomers, also originally created and now perpetuated by the desire of the ignorant to base things solely on appearance.

I realize that it's very important to you to somehow convince people that "real" human beings are, by definition, ADULT human beings, but you'll excuse me if I decide to go with biological science, which does not include "sentient and conscious" or "self-aware" - especially not the way YOU mean it - in its classification of "human".

If you wish to discuss the "abortion is murder" argument, I suggest you do it with someone who has actually MADE that argument, rather than trying to put words in my mouth so that you can project your favorite "abortion debate" script onto me. If you wish an actual debate, you might try confining yourself to rebutting things I'VE ACTUALLY SAID.

Furthermore, YOU are the one who barged in here, insisting that the definition of "human" involved cerebral cortexes and higher reasoning, so may I ask why the fuck you then turn around and demand that I answer for the fact that "we" don't classify other primates as human? When did I become responsible for explaining the ramifications of YOUR bullshit argument? MY arguments on the subject of abortion and human life require no explaining away of other primates whatsoever, which ought to tell you something.

The truth is, the abortion = infanticide argument is only valid if unborn babies are infants, and are being killed. Since both ARE, in fact, scientifically AND grammatically true (and in no way "emotional", the way you're "but they aren't like adults" nonsense is), the argument is valid. Call me when you have the cojones to debate my actual arguments, rather than blathering on at me about what you WISH I had said.