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we don't get to kill for the sake of convenience. Even if you're inconvenienced for a full 9 months.
I have neighbors I absolutely loathe. Their yard overlooks my yard, and so they see everything that goes on here and apparently they don't watch tv, but spend all their waking hours obsessing over what I'm doing....whether I'm maintaining the yard to their specifications, picking up after the dogs, maintaining adequate silence so the sick old man can sleep all hours of the day. Do I think my life would be better if they just died and went away? HELL YEAH. Do I get to kill them? Nope.
This is a false analogy, and your argument fails accordingly.
Abortion is not murder, where killing your elderly neighbors clearly is. There is also no evidence that abortion is motivated solely by a desire for convenience.
we don't get to kill for the sake of convenience. Even if you're inconvenienced for a full 9 months.
I have neighbors I absolutely loathe. Their yard overlooks my yard, and so they see everything that goes on here and apparently they don't watch tv, but spend all their waking hours obsessing over what I'm doing....whether I'm maintaining the yard to their specifications, picking up after the dogs, maintaining adequate silence so the sick old man can sleep all hours of the day. Do I think my life would be better if they just died and went away? HELL YEAH. Do I get to kill them? Nope.
This is a false analogy, and your argument fails accordingly.
Abortion is not murder, where killing your elderly neighbors clearly is. There is also no evidence that abortion is motivated solely by a desire for convenience.
Over 95% of abortions are NOT to save teh life of the mother, or for rape, or becaues of some birth defect.
They are using abortion as a form of birth control in the vast majority of cases. And what does that do when you can use abortion as birth control? It enables poor decision making. And in this case someone ELSE has to pay the price, and with their lives.
If the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child.
Eisenstadt v. Baird (1972)
we don't get to kill for the sake of convenience. Even if you're inconvenienced for a full 9 months.
I have neighbors I absolutely loathe. Their yard overlooks my yard, and so they see everything that goes on here and apparently they don't watch tv, but spend all their waking hours obsessing over what I'm doing....whether I'm maintaining the yard to their specifications, picking up after the dogs, maintaining adequate silence so the sick old man can sleep all hours of the day. Do I think my life would be better if they just died and went away? HELL YEAH. Do I get to kill them? Nope.
This is a false analogy, and your argument fails accordingly.
Abortion is not murder, where killing your elderly neighbors clearly is. There is also no evidence that abortion is motivated solely by a desire for convenience.
Over 95% of abortions are NOT to save teh life of the mother, or for rape, or becaues of some birth defect.
They are using abortion as a form of birth control in the vast majority of cases. And what does that do when you can use abortion as birth control? It enables poor decision making. And in this case someone ELSE has to pay the price, and with their lives.
For all those who are soooooo hell-bent on telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body when she voluntarily lays down and has sex. Well that is not the case every time. I have one word for you: RAPE! You anti-abortionists really are going to sit there and tell a woman who was savagely raped, "Ohhh well, sorry you got raped, but guess what, you are going to have a constant reminder for the rest of your life." What if that was your MOTHER that got raped? Or your SISTER? Or your WIFE? Every single one of you never thought about that huh? Shame on you for telling a woman she HAS to carry a baby against her will. Absolutely PATHETIC!!
That last sentence sounds like one that would fit in nicely in the old USSR. Good job comrade.
(My bold)
(laughing) No, the bad ol' USSR needed more live births (the FRS too). There was a lot of state support for parents & newborns. Abortions were against state policy, although health care was available.
No, I was emphasizing that we collectively are the State - & that if you really want to change the laws allocating child support, for instance, you'll have to convince your fellow citizens that your alternative makes sense & protects our interest in the continuity of the polity.
Nice job of misdirection, though, tovarich. Everything for the great Rodina, nyet?
There was no misdirection, you brought up the old USSR, I simply stated how well the last sentence of your comment would fit in their system. And I could give a crap about the continuity of the polity, they are supposed to be protecting our individual rights. BTW did you miss the part that this is a theoretical discussion?
For all those who are soooooo hell-bent on telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body when she voluntarily lays down and has sex. Well that is not the case every time. I have one word for you: RAPE! You anti-abortionists really are going to sit there and tell a woman who was savagely raped, "Ohhh well, sorry you got raped, but guess what, you are going to have a constant reminder for the rest of your life." What if that was your MOTHER that got raped? Or your SISTER? Or your WIFE? Every single one of you never thought about that huh? Shame on you for telling a woman she HAS to carry a baby against her will. Absolutely PATHETIC!!
If it was their mother, sister, or their own daughter who was raped, they wouldn't care. They'd tell her that the fetus inside her was far more important than her mental health.
Because they are insane, and hate women.
Yes, that is true.
I believe that the current POV is that men ONLY have the right to make the responsible decision by NOT having sex with the women in the first place.
IF after making the decision to play the BABY MAYBE mystery dance with the woman, IF a pregnancy occurs, THEN the man is OUT OF THE DECISION MAKING LOOP.
Unfair, you say?
I quite agree.
Mother nature made a FAIR GENDER NEUTRAL decision impossible.
If a man does NOT want to take the risk?
His only choice is to NOT TAKE the risk in the first place.
Your logic about not taking the risk in the first place could apply to both genders and using it should give the State a say in what either party would do. Why do you dodge the question on involuntary servitude? The way the system is set up she has the ability to abort her responsibility or force him into as many as 26 years of involuntary servitude. Where is the equal treatment under the law, of as Maobama says, where's the fairness?
Yes it could be used in any way society elected to use it, I quite agree.
I was in no way "dodging" the question of the UNFAIRNESS of the law
I agree that the LAW is unfair.
My point, which apparently you are having trouble grasping, is that there is no truly FAIR law written by mankind that can be entirely FAIR.
How did you miss that?
I thought I made that point every clear.
For all those who are soooooo hell-bent on telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body when she voluntarily lays down and has sex. Well that is not the case every time. I have one word for you: RAPE! You anti-abortionists really are going to sit there and tell a woman who was savagely raped, "Ohhh well, sorry you got raped, but guess what, you are going to have a constant reminder for the rest of your life." What if that was your MOTHER that got raped? Or your SISTER? Or your WIFE? Every single one of you never thought about that huh? Shame on you for telling a woman she HAS to carry a baby against her will. Absolutely PATHETIC!!
If it was their mother, sister, or their own daughter who was raped, they wouldn't care. They'd tell her that the fetus inside her was far more important than her mental health.
Because they are insane, and hate women.
Oh yawn. Please provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was FORCED to give birth.
For all those who are soooooo hell-bent on telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body when she voluntarily lays down and has sex. Well that is not the case every time. I have one word for you: RAPE! You anti-abortionists really are going to sit there and tell a woman who was savagely raped, "Ohhh well, sorry you got raped, but guess what, you are going to have a constant reminder for the rest of your life." What if that was your MOTHER that got raped? Or your SISTER? Or your WIFE? Every single one of you never thought about that huh? Shame on you for telling a woman she HAS to carry a baby against her will. Absolutely PATHETIC!!
If it was their mother, sister, or their own daughter who was raped, they wouldn't care. They'd tell her that the fetus inside her was far more important than her mental health.
Because they are insane, and hate women.
Oh yawn. Please provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was FORCED to give birth.
If it was their mother, sister, or their own daughter who was raped, they wouldn't care. They'd tell her that the fetus inside her was far more important than her mental health.
Because they are insane, and hate women.
Oh yawn. Please provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was FORCED to give birth.
I don't think she was talking about her mental health being effected because she was forced to have a child, I think she was talking about a woman's mental health after being raped, and forced to be reminded every day with a child.
Aaaand... Did you know that, at least in the US, women are less likely than men to say abortion should be legal due to rape?
Aaaand... Did you know that, at least in the US, women are less likely than men to say abortion should be legal due to rape?
So what? They still don't have the right to decide what another woman does with her body.
Relevance?So... What percentage of abortions are due to rape, and what percentage of women who are impregnated via rape choose to abort?
Unlucky for you, having an abortion isn't deciding "what to do with your body", since an abortion just so happens to target the body of another.
If he doesn't want to pay for the meal, he shouldn't have gone into the restaurant.Lets start with a guy that admits, "I stuck my pencil in this woman and she got pregnant."
So now he says, I want there to be an abortion. She says no way.
My question is: why doesn't his obligation end right there? If "as women declare" that both men and women are equally responcible for a pregnancy then why don't men have equal say in the disposition of the event?
If it was their mother, sister, or their own daughter who was raped, they wouldn't care. They'd tell her that the fetus inside her was far more important than her mental health.
Because they are insane, and hate women.
Oh yawn. Please provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was FORCED to give birth.
Provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was forced to abort.
Oh yawn. Please provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was FORCED to give birth.
Provide me with an example of a woman who lost her mental health because she was forced to abort.
Women hav lost their lives because they were forced to abort, refused to abort, or as a result of abortion...and many, many women and girls who abort suffer from ptsd for the rest of their lives. They also have a much higher chance of being murdered or committing suicide.
So by all means, encourage them first to have sex with people willy-nilly, then trot them to the abortion clinics! Show you really care about at-risk women and girls!!!
These are well documented facts. Try again.
"
Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS) is the name that has been given to the psychological aftereffects of abortion, based on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). It is important to note that this is not a term that has been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association. In fact, pro-choice advocates accuse their counterparts of making up PASS in order to further their political agendas.
Nevertheless, any event that causes trauma can indeed result in PTSD, and abortion is no exception. A woman can be of sound and solid mind when she makes a choice to terminate a pregnancy, but it is never an easy decision. Even when it is the right decision, there is sometimes a level of conflict that needs to be addressed so that the woman can be at peace with her choice. Believing that PASS exists does not mean that one does not believe in a womans right to choose; it simply means that one believes in supportive and constructive counseling around the trauma symptoms."
Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS) - Does It Exist? | Psychology Today
Pro-abortionists continue to struggle with the reality that abortion results in death, murder, and long-term, negative physical and psychological effects. It's hard to justify such a depraved practice when there is apparently nothing positive that comes of it. But they keep trying.
Did you realize that more men than women support abortion? That men, like our resident porn spokesperson, joe, are the REASON women are encouraged to get abortions in the first place?
Abortion is a tool used by industries and people who exploit, terrorize, kill and abuse women. Open your eyes.
