A scenario for WW2 history buffs: What if?

[Wyatt earp]

I read a bit about WW2 and think about this quite offten, (I wont make this long and sorry for any typos) What if the Germans managed too, Launch the Bismark her sister ship and the Aircraft carrier they were trying to build.....in the same fleet on the same day? Could the Allies have destroyed it before it would have run heck in the Atlantic shipping lanes? Could have an escort carrier fleet stood up to it? just curious what you all think.....

 

[Wyatt earp]

German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin

German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JakeStarkey]

The lack of professional carrier air experience and lack of air doctrine would have prevented the inclusion of the Graf Zeppelin in the sortee.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The lack of professional carrier air experience and lack of air doctrine would have prevented the inclusion of the Graf Zeppelin in the sortee.

thank for your thoughts, but what if Hitler would of thought and demanded jet fighters at first.. he wanted jet bombers. and I know for some reason the Germans could never master the steam propelled catapult system and capture system on the graf Zepp like we did... do you know why? because I dont.

 

[dilloduck]

I could only offer a guess and that would be that German scientists were directed to focus elsewhere.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The lack of professional carrier air experience and lack of air doctrine would have prevented the inclusion of the Graf Zeppelin in the sortee.

double post

 

[Wyatt earp]

I could only offer a guess and that would be that German scientists were directed to focus elsewhere.

Idk, till today I thought there was only two and not not three, the Bismark being the first, didnt know about the tripz...and she was the first. I so hate relearning history Btw..
The Tirpitz

 

[Wyatt earp]

You know what I was lied too in history class in the 80's I remember that reading there was a sister ship to the bismark that never sailed. the gun mounts were removed and placed on Normandy..... What fuck heads..... that history American book lied to me. There was only two bismark class. the Bismark and the trip and they were both sunk.. This really ticks me off.....

 

[eagle1462010]

List of aircraft carriers of the Royal Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could the Germans have caused some problems? Absolutely, but the British would have sent everything they had after a Carrier Group and would have eventually got them. Not to add that the U.S. would have sent everything as well.

While they are powerful warships, anything that floats can be sunk. They would have damaged or sunk some allied shipping, but would have been taken by the Allies.

 

[dilloduck]

You know what I was lied too in history class in the 80's I remember that reading there was a sister ship to the bismark that never sailed. the gun mounts were removed and placed on Normandy..... What fuck heads..... that history American book lied to me. There was only two bismark class. the Bismark and the trip and they were both sunk.. This really ticks me off.....

I can relate--first time I caught the education system trying to rewrite history on me I was pissed off.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The lack of professional carrier air experience and lack of air doctrine would have prevented the inclusion of the Graf Zeppelin in the sortee.

thank for your thoughts, but what if Hitler would of thought and demanded jet fighters at first.. he wanted jet bombers. and I know for some reason the Germans could never master the steam propelled catapult system and capture system on the graf Zepp like we did... do you know why? because I dont.

The AF was subordinated as a flying artillery to ground operations, so that the concepts of strategic bombing and naval air capability never got beyond the very basics.

Jets: if Hitler had permitted mass production ME jet later in 1944 and early 1945, he would have stopped cold the Amer-Brit-Can-Fr at the west border and the Russians in Poland. If that had happened, Truman would have used one of the nukes on Berlin to end the war.

 

[mamooth]

You know what I was lied too in history class in the 80's I remember that reading there was a sister ship to the bismark that never sailed. the gun mounts were removed and placed on Normandy.....

That was German battlecruiser Gneisenau, sister ship of Scharnhorst. Much like Bismark, Scharnhorst sortied out to attack convoys and was sunk by the British. Gneisenau, like so much of the German surface fleet, was bombed by the British while in port, and damaged so badly that it was written off and pieced out to shore batteries.

 

[JakeStarkey]

An aside: your history teacher was probably a coach.

 

[regent]

An aside: your history teacher was probably a coach.

I think most high school history courses, including the textbooks would not have that kind of detailed history. Perhaps a week is devoted to WWII and that would be about five hours. Then too, many classes never even get to WWII, and there is a joke as the school is being let out for the summer and the teacher yelling at the departing class "By the way we won WWII."

 

[ThirdTerm]

ULTRA was a major factor in the sinking of the Bismarck and the codebreakers at Bletchley intercepted a message from the Bismarck which confirmed that the German battleship was headed for Brest. The Royal Navy was able to route its convoys accordingly and determine which the particular convoys needed escort vessels and thus, the Bismarck was encircled by British vessels and destroyed.

Through the spring of 1941, the British had had virtually no luck in solving the German navy's codes. In mid-May 1941, however, the British captured not only a German weather trawler with considerable material detailing the settings for the naval codes but also a German submarine, the U- 110, with its cipher machine and all accompanying material.16 With these two captures, the British held the settings for the next two months for the German navy's enigma machines. Thus, the British were able to break into the U-boat traffic by the end of May. Also, because German U-boats were controlled closely from shore and a massive amount of signaling went back and forth to coordinate the movement of the wolf packs, the British gained invaluable information, ranging from the number of U-boats available to tactical dispositions and patrol lines. Moreover, once they had a full two months' experience inside the German U-boat traffic, British cryptologists were able to continue breaking the submarine message traffic for the next five months.17 The impact that this intelligence had on the Battle of the Atlantic was almost immediate.18 The dramatic, decline in sinkings (compared with those that had occurred during the first five months of the year) has no explanation other than that Ultra information enabled the British to gain a decisive edge over their undersea opponent. There was no introduction of new technology, no significant increase in the number of escorts available, and no extension of air coverage. Ultra alone made the difference.
Ultra: Some Thoughts on its Impact on the Second World War

 

[Politico]

Would have made no difference.

 

[JakeStarkey]

An aside: your history teacher was probably a coach.

I think most high school history courses, including the textbooks would not have that kind of detailed history. Perhaps a week is devoted to WWII and that would be about five hours. Then too, many classes never even get to WWII, and there is a joke as the school is being let out for the summer and the teacher yelling at the departing class "By the way we won WWII."

Many of my peers and those who came after repeat much of what you tell us here, regent.

I was not a good student back then, but in our social science track at HS, we had geography, world history, American history, geography, and economics. Does any public school do that now, I wonder.

 

[rightwinger]

I read a bit about WW2 and think about this quite offten, (I wont make this long and sorry for any typos) What if the Germans managed too, Launch the Bismark her sister ship and the Aircraft carrier they were trying to build.....in the same fleet on the same day? Could the Allies have destroyed it before it would have run heck in the Atlantic shipping lanes? Could have an escort carrier fleet stood up to it? just curious what you all think.....

The European Theater was not a good venue for naval power. Too vulnerable to land based air attacks. Battleships were obsolete and a single carrier would have been sunk by subs or land based air attacks

 

[longknife]

Herr Schicklgruber was too indoctrinated into the army in which he had reached the exalted rank of corporal to even think of the possibility of naval strength. He could real with the stealth tactics of U-boats but naval aviation was beyond him.

In addition, Goering was not about to give up his status as the chief aviator of the Reich.

This was but one of very many stupid decisions that the Fuehrer made that cost Germany the war.

 

[whitehall]

You might be used to reading elementary school versions of WW2 or propaganda movies. In the greatest Country in the world the truth is out there but it is sometimes obscured by propaganda. The US was totally unprepared for WW2. America had virtually no intelligence network and government relied on rumors and racist assumptions about Japan. The media writes the pop-culture history books and the media became part of the FDR administration. FDR was first elected about the same time Hitler came into power and he was well aware of the Nazi Holocaust but he did nothing politically. Meanwhile the Japanese were viewed seriously as "nearsighted little monkeys who couldn't build a plane that would fly or a ship that would float? America was a blind giant mired in three terms of the FDR depression.