A Question of Racism

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by patrickcaturday, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. patrickcaturday
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    patrickcaturday Active Member

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    I will be one of the first to admit that most Arab states are bigoted and racist, but would anyone attempt to explain to me why the definition below is not equally bigoted and racist;
    DICTIONARY
    Zionism
    Definition
    Zi·on·ism
    [ z ə nìzzəm ]
    NOUN
    1.
    movement establishing and developing Jewish state: a worldwide movement, originating in the 19th century, that sought to establish and develop a Jewish nation in Palestine. Since 1948 its function has been to support the state of Israel.
    Content above provided by
    Encarta® World English Dictionary[North American Edition] © & (P) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc
     
  2. Hossfly
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    Hossfly ZIONUT Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Is the relationship between Ireland and England bigoted or racist?
     
  3. FuelRod
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    FuelRod Gold Member

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  4. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    Zionism is obviously not a form of racism, since it embraces Jews of all races, and and it in no way corresponds to any accepted definition of bigotry. It is a form of nationalism and is no more and no less reprehensible than any other form of nationalism. While Zionism was the principal force that founded and established the state of Israel and is still an important ideology among Israelis and other Jews, Zionism, Jewish nationalism, is distinct from Israeli nationalism which embraces a large number of Arabs and others who are not Jewish.
     
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  5. patrickcaturday
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    patrickcaturday Active Member

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    If you are using the biological definition of race then your argument holds up. But as soon as you add the ism to the word than it is not strictly a matter of biology it becomes a question more of sociology. The sociological definition of racism is more broad in that it deals with ethnicity which in this case is a matter of genetics and culture rather than simple biological characteristics. If you use the sociological definition of Zionism as it is practiced in Israel than you can see that it is a doctrine of racism.



    Here are some accepted definitions of bigotry;

    bigotry [ˈbɪgətrɪ]

    n pl -ries
    the attitudes, behaviour, or way of thinking of a bigot; prejudice; intolerance
    Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    bigotry

    obtuse or narrow-minded intolerance, especially of other races or religions. — bigot, n., — bigoted, adj.
    See also: Race





    Roget's Thesaurus:
    bigotry
    Top
    Home > Library > Literature & Language > Thesaurus

    noun

    Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion: intolerance, prejudice


    Bigotry
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search
    For people named Bigot and other meanings, see Bigot (disambiguation).
    Look up bigotry in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
    Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to: Bigotry

    A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing sex, race, ethnicity, religious belief or spirituality, political alignment, nationality, language,.......














    Now please answer the following questions and see if your above answer to my original question changes

    1 ) Are there Jewish only roads in the West Bank ?
    2 ) Are there Jewish only settlements not only in the West Bank but also in the Negev ?
    3 ) In Jerusalem and other places in Israel are discriminatory practices used in granting building permits that favor the Jewish people over the Palestinians ?
    4 ) Are these discriminatory practices on building permits gradually forcing all Muslims out of Jerusalem ?
    5 ) Is it the practice of the Israeli Government to move Bedouins ( Israeli citizens ) off of their land and relocate them next to garbage dumps in order to expand Jewish Settlements ?
    6 ) Doesn't the fact that Israel wishes to be known as a Jewish State automatically reduce the Muslim and or Arabs that live in Israel to second class citizenship ?
    7 ) Doesn't the very concept of Zionism which states that the Jewish People have a right to a homeland in Palestine in abeyance of the rights of the people who were living there indicate racism ?

     
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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  6. Hossfly
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    Hossfly ZIONUT Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Answer to #5

    Unrecognized Bedouin villages in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  7. patrickcaturday
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    patrickcaturday Active Member

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    Answer to your answer;

    See questions 3 and 4 above. Why are Bedouin applications for building permits refused ( thus making the villages unrecognized ) and yet when the JNF applies for building permits they are approved with no problems.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  8. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    1) No, there are roads in the West Bank that can only be used by Israelis, including Arab Israelis, without special permits, but there are no roads that can only be used by Jews.

    2) No, there are Israeli communities that have no Jews and communities that have no Arabs, but both Israeli law and courts have held that no Israeli community can exclude anyone because of race, religion, ethnicity, etc.

    3) No, Under Israeli law, it is illegal to discriminate in housing by race, religion, ethnicity, etc. and Jerusalem is part of Israel. The government has approved building permits in Arab as well as Jewish neighborhoods. In fact, the rate of approval of building permits applied for by Arabs is about the same as those applied for by Jews.

    ILLEGAL CONSTRUCTION IN THE “ARAB SECTOR” OF JERUSALEM | 4international

    Arab Neighborhood Planned for Central Jerusalem - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

    4) There are no such discriminatory practices and since 1967, the Arab population of Jerusalem has continued to grow and Arab building has outpaced Jewish building. The Arabs aren't being driven out; they are complaining about Jews moving in.

    5) No, Bedouin communities that have been built without proper permits have sometimes been demolished just as illegal Jewish building is. It is illegal under Israeli law to discriminate on the basis of race, religion,ethnicity, etc.

    6) No, all Israeli citizens have equal rights under the law. Calling Israel a Jewish state may be as offensive to some Arab Israelis as calling the US a Christian country is to some non Christians, but it in no way reduces the legal rights of non Jewish Israelis.

    7) No, the establishment of the state of Israel in no way limited the rights of others living there, in fact, Arab Israelis have all the same rights as Jewish Israelis, and more rights, freedom and opportunities than any other Arabs in the ME.

    Zionism was not motivated by a desire to impose Jewish power over another people but to establish a safe place to which Jews could escape centuries of persecutions, including forced conversions and pogroms, in both Europe and the Arab world that continued right into the twentieth century.

    19th century

    20th century

    Pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In fact, the US was the preferred destination for Jews trying to escape persecution in Europe and the ME, but anti immigration laws passed in the early 1920's blocked Jewish immigration to the US and without establishing a Jewish state, there would have been no safe place for Jews trying to escape persecution.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  9. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    Building permits for both Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis are approved at the same rate.
     
  10. Wolverine1984
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    Wolverine1984 Active Member

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    To answer this question I must make something clear:
    To get a building permit you must fill a certain criteria, not everyone Jewish or otherwise gets a building permit.
    The criteria includes pluming , a sound structure using appropriate materials, foundation access to electricity etc ...

    If you want to build a house in a city , it won't be a problem to abide by those rules , however if you want to build a shack in the the desert this would prove difficult.

    [​IMG]

    This is a picture of an unapproved Bedouin structure ...
    I hope it's clear to you why those buildings don't meet the building permit criteria.

    If your building meets the criteria you will get a permit , no matter what is your ethnic group ...
    There is no racial discrimination here ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012

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