A question about Torture

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kent.Neidhold, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. Kent.Neidhold
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    Kent.Neidhold Rookie

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    So I've been struggling with this torture situation for a while and I feel that I have conflicting beliefs. 1. I probably identify with the left more then I do the right and I have a lot of very liberal ideas...mainly legalization of pot ( thats a situation all on its own.) 2. I feel that we should torture the shit out of those terrorist mother F's.
    I talk to my liberal friends about it and I get chastized for how I feel and they say I can't be liberal if I feel that way. Why not? Why wouldn't we torture and waterboard and put electrodes on their nut sacks if we could thwart another terrorist attack? I don't see why us lefties feel like giving those fuckers rights is gonig to save our country? Who cares, these dudes have C4 and ballbarings strapped to themselves and Bobby the hippy wants to make sure he has enogh water and light in his cell...give the fucker Alpo and never let him see the light of day!
    In short, can someone explain this passive line of thinknig to me?
     
  2. Nik
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    Nik Senior Member

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    Well first of all, wheres the proof any of these people are terrorists to begin with? When you start saying we should torture people because we think they are terrorists, well then the government can basically torture people on a whim. Surely you don't believe that?
     
  3. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Slippery slope arguments are garbage. If you think that torturing suspected terrorists is going to lead to the torture of a person caught speeding, you're nuts.
     
  4. Nik
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    Nik Senior Member

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    Its not a slippery slope argument at all. The point is that if the government can designate anyone a terrorist and can torture anyone it designates a terrorist, then it can torture anyone for whatever reason it wants.

    You don't think thats troubling at all?
     
  5. Kent.Neidhold
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    Kent.Neidhold Rookie

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    Clearly the government isn't going to torture someone who hasn't warrented some sort of reason to be linked to or considered a terrorist. I am assuming that we torturing torrorists and not Johnny from next door or torturing people on whim as you called it. I'm talking about bonafide legimate terrorist suspects. Obviously they have put themselves in the situation or identifies themselves with terrorist or terror suspects
     
  6. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Because it won't/doesn't/has never thwarted a terrorists attack. They tortured to those enemy combatants to say that there was a connection between Saddam & 9-11. And they'll tell you anything if you torture them. Not necessarily the truth, but whatever you want to hear.

    And the Bush regime used that information to lie us into Iraq.

    And next thing you know they'll be justifying why they had to torture you.

    Giving those people rights is what our country is all about. How many of them have been convicted? So most of them were just people we picked up because some afgan or iraq warlord turned them in for a reward.

    Yes, give them water and enough light. What, are you even more evil and sicker than they are? What is that going to gain to deprive them of water?

    You have been sucked into Nationalism.

    The Reichstag building in Berlin was constructed to house the Reichstag, the first parliament of the German Empire. It was opened in 1894 and housed the Reichstag until 1933, when it was severely damaged in a fire supposedly set by Dutch communist Marinus van der Lubbe, who was later beheaded for the crime. That verdict has been a subject of controversy over the years.[1] The National Socialist German Workers Party used this event as casus belli to begin a purge of traitors in Berlin and to ban the Communist Party of Germany.

    So we got hit on 9-11 and you are angry, and boy did Bush use that to his advantage.

    The sad thing is that far too many Americans condoln breaking the law when they say it is ok to torture. That just simply isn't the American way. Now if they really have some credible information, then torture them in private, and don't make it our policy, and we don't need to find out about it. But to say you approve torture??? How about rape? If it could stop another 9-11, can the CIA go around the world raping women? But they are "TERRORIST"? Says who?

    So you have to remember, torture is illegal. We don't torture. And torture doesn't even work. We get better results without torture. Why does that get forgotten?

    Bush is just covering his ass, along with Rumsfeld and Cheney. They should be charged with war crimes and put away for life, and have all their assets seized. It wouldn't be the first time. The Bush's did business with the Nazi's too. And today they are in bed with the Bin ladin's.
     
  7. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    If you think that taking away non citizens human rights will lead to them taking away American's rights, then you would be right yourself. See Jose Padilla.

    Oh, and this guy:

    Steven Howards, 54, a consultant to non-profit organizations, was vacationing with his family in Beaver Creek when he spotted Cheney in an outdoor mall shaking hands and posing for photos. Howards and his son walked over and told Cheney that his policies in Iraq are "reprehensible."

    Howards said he may have touched Cheney on the elbow or shoulder, like others in the crowd.

    Howards kept walking to his son's piano lesson. He returned to the spot about ten minutes later with another son, and that's when Secret Service agent Virgil Reichle handcuffed and arrested Howards for assaulting the vice president.

    The charge was later reduced to harassment, then dismissed in Eagle County Court a month later.

    Assault arrest followed word to Cheney - The Denver Post

    Just like most of the "unlawful enemy combatants have not been charged and have been released. Now they probably are terrorists. How about I lock you up for 5 years and torture you 100's of times?

    And why didn't we torture Saddam to find out where those WMD's went?

    You right wingers are soooo naive/misled.
     
  8. Kent.Neidhold
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    Kent.Neidhold Rookie

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    I guess you could pose a million hypothetical situations and I see your point about rape. I guess I'm with you that, if you are going to torture someone do it in private and dont make it public policy....Well said
     
  9. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Yes the government tortured hundreds of innocent men. Is a Private in the US military a terrorist? If you are Osama Bin Ladin, the answer is yes. And you are no different than he is. You think their foot soldiers are 'terrorists".
     
  10. Kent.Neidhold
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    Kent.Neidhold Rookie

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    If you are directing that at me and saying that I am like Osama Bin Laden, then you are grossly mislead.
     

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