CDZ A Moderate Maifesto

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:17 AM.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    I was not reminded of you in any way.

    Do you feel like you have a history of trolling or mockery?

    I have not noticed that of you.
     
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  2. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    The article also has some commonalities with liberalism.

    But I just didnt want to quote the whole article.

    Also, Identity {Politics is fairly much rejected by the majority of people as it is basically a new form of racism inherently, as it does precisely IDENTIFYING people/categorizing them/ pigeonholing them by race and explaining their behavior and rights by race.
     
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  3. OldLady
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    OldLady Gold Member

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    I'm not sure what you are thinking of as "Identity Politics." What I'm thinking of is the criticism that liberals are using "Identity Politics" when they point out areas where there are inequalities between one group and the dominant group. Such as BLM. That isn't valid, though, since no one can point out inequalities without mentioning the identify of the group.
     
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  4. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Wow, just wow. Just yesterday I was thinking, "What's the point any more? I'm not learning anything anymore (the whole reason I started this adventure), and I can't seem to get through to anyone that disagrees with me either. I should just stop going on this board." Then, today, I read this. Wow, I'm not alone, I'm not the only one.

    Thank you folks for renewing my faith that this ongoing discussion on the various topics of the day might, someday, lead to a better tomorrow. I shall carry on. I shall continue to make an attempt at bringing sanity back to the public discussion, I shall continue hoping that Dr. King's dream may become a reality and we will be judged by the content of our character alone, one and all.

    I cannot say enough to express what this entire thread means to me. I have thought many times in recent years that this country is too far gone, and my best play is to "disappear into the north woods" to live out my life in relative peace and harmony. This thread renews my hope that the day I make that move has not come, yet.

    I feel a tear welling up in my eye when I say, "Thank you one and all."

    Wait, no that was just my allergies. LOL
     
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  5. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    I cannot speak for anyone but myself, however, oftentimes when I hear things like, "well the (insert group here)....." I hear the message that someone/something is to blame for that group's failures. You bring up BLM, when I think of BLM I think, well of course black lives matter, so do everyone else's. I think of the whole "hands up, don't shoot" thing that was based on a lie. I think, it's a free country, if you don't like where you are, move (I know, easier said than done, but the Oregon trail was mostly walked with what one could carry or put in a small wagon). I think of the slogan, "by any means necessary" (yea, I know that's Antifa).
    This is the problem, oftentimes when liberals "point out areas where there are inequalities between one group and the dominant group" it comes across as I have somehow done something wrong. That I am racist, bigoted, or otherwise unfair to minorities just because of my birth. I have said and done some things that have been quite hurtful to people. That doesn't mean that I am a racist, sexist, or homophobe. It means I was once young and naive, and therefore did things that were hurtful. Often it seems as though no one is given the benefit of the doubt. (IE. "Did you realise that what you said/did was hurtful in this way?") Too often people assume other people understand what they mean when they are unclear. We all know what happens when one ASSuMEs.
    Getting back to the example of BLM, it would be much better received to say "Black Lives Matter, too"(you will notice I capitalized the BLM and left the "too" lower case, adding the emphasis where it belongs). Of course that doesn't grab you though, however, it is much more conducive to starting a conversation. I have to wonder, was the BLM movement started to kick off a long overdue conversation, or just to get attention? Don't get me wrong, we do need to shine a very bright spotlight on bigotry in all forms, but I believe it should be in the form of starting conversations, not shouting matches.
     
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  6. OldLady
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    OldLady Gold Member

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    oftentimes when liberals "point out areas where there are inequalities between one group and the dominant group" it comes across as I have somehow done something wrong. That I am racist, bigoted, or otherwise unfair to minorities just because of my birth.
    I'm not sure what makes you think that, but that is your problem. Not to hurt your feelings, but it is actually YOUR personal reaction, not a reaction to the facts of existing inequalities.

    I'm also not sure why you immediately leap to the defense of "shouting matches." I've heard lots of people talk about those issues without shouting. Don't expect intelligent discussion during a street march, oldsoul. It will never happen. Otherwise, there are plenty of opportunities to have a conversation if you can enter it without a lot of preconceived notions.
     
  7. OldLady
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    OldLady Gold Member

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    All that said, nice piece, Jim. If only everyone could be that reasonable. Yet the moderates in D.C. seem to be running for the exit. Can we somehow get a message to moderates that a lot of us wish for more of them?
     
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  8. Natural Citizen
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    Natural Citizen Gold Member

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    Well, I'm a Independent, so....
     
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  9. Dogmaphobe
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    Dogmaphobe Platinum Member

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    Yet identity politics is nothing but a reversion to a primitive tribalism.

    As such, it is the antithesis of liberalism rather than the promotion thereof.

    Liberalism is about creating a color blind society and not restricting people to tribe. Liberalism MAXIMIZES people's ability to determine their own life rather than putting them in a little box that limits them.
     
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  10. Dogmaphobe
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    Dogmaphobe Platinum Member

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    BLM began after one black man pounded a guy' s head into the ground until it was a bloody pulp and anther black man tried to overpower a cop.

    It is nothing but the very reversal of mlk's famous line about judging a person by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. For those who practice identity politics, it is all about the color of one's skin and not the content of their character.
     
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