A lasting solution

[toomuchtime_]

We give money to Israel to spend here ? How much sense does that make?

It certainly makes more sense than giving them money to spend somewhere else. In fact, the net cost to the entire US economy, federal, state and local, is probably less than 20% of the face value of the credits when you consider how the money spent circulates throughout the economy and generates taxes at each level it passes through.

In fact, we never give them any money at all. We tell them how much they can spend and what they can buy. When Israel places an approved order, the federal government pays for it, and that money either goes back to the federal government or state and local governments in corporate or personal taxes or it is spent by the company or its employees and those expenditures generate more taxes or are spent and generate more taxes and so on. One side benefit of this kind of military aid is that it helps our defense industries maintain an excess capacity that the US would be able to draw on in an emergency.

 

[dilloduck]

It certainly makes more sense than giving them money to spend somewhere else. In fact, the net cost to the entire US economy, federal, state and local, is probably less than 20% of the face value of the credits when you consider how the money spent circulates throughout the economy and generates taxes at each level it passes through.

In fact, we never give them any money at all. We tell them how much they can spend and what they can buy. When Israel places an approved order, the federal government pays for it, and that money either goes back to the federal government or state and local governments in corporate or personal taxes or it is spent by the company or its employees and those expenditures generate more taxes or are spent and generate more taxes and so on. One side benefit of this kind of military aid is that it helps our defense industries maintain an excess capacity that the US would be able to draw on in an emergency.

How about giving no one in the middle east any money AT ALL ?

 

[toomuchtime_]

How about giving no one in the middle east any money AT ALL ?

In fact, despite strong popular support for Israel, the US gave very little aid to anyone in the ME and that led to the USSR having a strong presence there having Egypt, Syria and to a lesser extent, Iraq, as client states. The aid we give to Egypt and Israel is mandated by the Egypt-Israel peace treaty which Jimmy Carter signed and which gave the US for the first time significant leverage over the two strongest states in the ME. This treaty has become the keystone of US ME strategy. It served as the model for the Israel-Jordan peace treaty and when the leverage we have with these three nations along with our relationship with Saudi Arabia, the US has a sphere of influence from North Africa all the way to the Persian Gulf. This arrangement froze the USSR out of the ME and now keeps Russia from reestablishing their presence there.

In addition, this sphere of influence separates Arab North Africa from the Arab ME and promote moderate policies in these states to counter the radicalism coming out of Lebanon, Syria and Iran. As long as we believe we have important strategic interests in the ME, these are important considerations.

 

[dilloduck]

In fact, despite strong popular support for Israel, the US gave very little aid to anyone in the ME and that led to the USSR having a strong presence there having Egypt, Syria and to a lesser extent, Iraq, as client states. The aid we give to Egypt and Israel is mandated by the Egypt-Israel peace treaty which Jimmy Carter signed and which gave the US for the first time significant leverage over the two strongest states in the ME. This treaty has become the keystone of US ME strategy. It served as the model for the Israel-Jordan peace treaty and when the leverage we have with these three nations along with our relationship with Saudi Arabia, the US has a sphere of influence from North Africa all the way to the Persian Gulf. This arrangement froze the USSR out of the ME and now keeps Russia from reestablishing their presence there.

In addition, this sphere of influence separates Arab North Africa from the Arab ME and promote moderate policies in these states to counter the radicalism coming out of Lebanon, Syria and Iran. As long as we believe we have important strategic interests in the ME, these are important considerations.

Odd how these "spheres of influence" are controlling our country.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Odd how these "spheres of influence" are controlling our country.

Enlighten me. How are they controlling our country?

 

[dilloduck]

Enlighten me. How are they controlling our country?

Arab oil--Israeli lobbying--world opinion---terrorism----need more ?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Arab oil--Israeli lobbying--world opinion---terrorism----need more ?

Well, we did need access to Arab oil, and still do, and one could argue that that need led us into wars and intrigues in Iran and Iraq, and the need to contain Saddam's Iraq led to al Qaeda targeting us and our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but I fail to see how our support of the Egypt-Israel peace treaty or the Israel-Jordan peace treaty or the conflict Israel has been having with the Palestinians has in any way controlled our country.

 

[Annie]

Arab oil--Israeli lobbying--world opinion---terrorism----need more ?

Truly you are talking like one who has talking points.

 

[dilloduck]

Well, we did need access to Arab oil, and still do, and one could argue that that need led us into wars and intrigues in Iran and Iraq, and the need to contain Saddam's Iraq led to al Qaeda targeting us and our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but I fail to see how our support of the Egypt-Israel peace treaty or the Israel-Jordan peace treaty or the conflict Israel has been having with the Palestinians has in any way controlled our country.

I fail to see how paying for peace has been to our adanvantage in those areas--There IS no peace yet we are spending money out the wazoo that ends up in the hands of those who kill. Our blantantly one sided support for Israel certainly doesnt' excuse the terrorism but it has cost us dearly in many ways.

 

[Annie]

I'm very confused. I don't see how are allying with Israel helps regarding oil, not for a nanosecond.

Like Bush in Africa regarding AIDS, might be one of the few times the US government, for better or worse chose to do something 'outside' of our own interests.

Not so with SA, Pakistan, even Egypt, those are to 'buy' us security, it's worked out just great.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm very confused. I don't see how are allying with Israel helps regarding oil, not for a nanosecond.

Like Bush in Africa regarding AIDS, might be one of the few times the US government, for better or worse chose to do something 'outside' of our own interests.

Not so with SA, Pakistan, even Egypt, those are to 'buy' us security, it's worked out just great.

I find it hard to believe that the AIDS assistance is not a front for other "security" intersests and further protecting spheres of influence. The plan just doesn't seem to work.

 

[Ravi]

We give boat loads of money to everyone, including Muslim countries.

If Israel can't do anything to solve their problem because we'll be mad, that's fucked up.

 

[dilloduck]

We give boat loads of money to everyone, including Muslim countries.

If Israel can't do anything to solve their problem because we'll be mad, that's fucked up.

Hell---I can't even tell who is whose puppet sometimes.

 

[Ravi]

Hell---I can't even tell who is whose puppet sometimes.

This thread should answer that question. If we were Israel's puppet the Palis would be long gone. Neither is a puppet...the US is just afraid of offending Muslims for some idiotic reason.

 

[dilloduck]

This thread should answer that question. If we were Israel's puppet the Palis would be long gone. Neither is a puppet...the US is just afraid of offending Muslims for some idiotic reason.

Israel couldnt afford to do jack shit if we were the puppet.

 

[Godboy]

I find it hard to believe that the AIDS assistance is not a front for other "security" intersests and further protecting spheres of influence.

Thats because you dont like Bush. Its funny how people can make stuff up and believe it without any facts backing up that claim. You just made it up out of thin air. The fact is, Bush has done more for Africans than ANYONE in the history of the world. The Bush haters cant stand that fact so they will do anything they can do pretend it isnt true. Im not a Bush fan by the way, but i wont deny what is fact.

 

[dilloduck]

Thats because you dont like Bush. Its funny how people can make stuff up and believe it without any facts backing up that claim. You just made it up out of thin air. The fact is, Bush has done more for Africans than ANYONE in the history of the world. The Bush haters cant stand that fact so they will do anything they can do pretend it isnt true. Im not a Bush fan by the way, but i wont deny what is fact.

wrong---nice try tho. I don't trust the ones who really run the show.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I fail to see how paying for peace has been to our adanvantage in those areas--There IS no peace yet we are spending money out the wazoo that ends up in the hands of those who kill. Our blantantly one sided support for Israel certainly doesnt' excuse the terrorism but it has cost us dearly in many ways.

Of course there's peace in the area among the nations. There has not been a major conflict between Israel and the Arab nations for 35 years after 4 major wars in the previous 30 years, and that peace is the direct result of US policy in the region. Since the US stepped in in a major way after the 1973 war, the only wars in the ME have either been started by Saddam Hussein or by Palestinian militants. One might argue that the peace was not complete because while the US had established peace among Egypt, Israel and Jordan, we had not yet extended our influence to Iraq or to Lebanon or to the Palestinians. If that is your complaint, the the answer is that we had not yet done enough rather than that we had done too much.

US policy was never one sided as applied to other Arab nations and it was never one sided as applied to the Palestinians until the second intifada broke out soon after 9/11, but the similarities between the terrorist attacks that Israel was suffering and the terrorist attack we had suffered were too great for most Americans not relate to and the realization that Israel was using the same methods to counter Islamic terrorism that we were using moved the US to stronger support for Israeli military actions and less confidence that Israel had any realistic alternatives than ever before.

Of course you could still argue that we have no more advantage to our influence in the ME than we have from our influence in the Balkans or our influence in Eastern Europe or anywhere else in the world, including western Europe, and everywhere else in the world, just as we did after WWI, but I think very few Americans would agree with you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

wrong---nice try tho. I don't trust the ones who really run the show.

And who do you imagine really runs the show?

 

[dilloduck]

And who do you imagine really runs the show?

The ones with the REAL money and the ones who brief the president. I still have an APB out for there names but no one will fess up yet.