A L E C - The American Legislative Exchange Council.

[Quantum Windbag]

its well known board courtesy/netiquette to stay on-topic.

you're welcome. Glad to help

I am on topic, ALEC is hardly the only corporation that influences law to get an advantage for itself.

It's not a corporation, or, at least it's not one lobbying for itself. It's a clearing house for hooking up compliant legislators with lobbying interests. It organizes efforts to get legislation passed that favor it's member companies. It's fair to say this isn't "new", but ALEC really takes it to the next level. Corporate lobbyists write legislation in the form of 'templates' that are distributed by ALEC to legislators. What could be easier? "Legislators" can appease their backers and don't even have to bother writing laws. ALEC is ugly business.

Look up ALICE. It does the exact same thing for the left. I refuse to pretend that the problem exist only on one side.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

its well known board courtesy/netiquette to stay on-topic.

you're welcome. Glad to help

I am on topic, ALEC is hardly the only corporation that influences law to get an advantage for itself.

ALEC isn't a corporation in the sense you imply here. It's a 501 c "Association" of corporations, designed to make the profitable lobbying of the legislatures of all 50 states as efficient and secret as possible.

Read at least one link in the opening post or Google it for yourself and find a link you prefer. It helps in these discussions if you have a fucking clue as to what you're talking about.

So is ALICE. Unless you admit that you will remain the partisan hack you are.

 

[occupied]

I am on topic, ALEC is hardly the only corporation that influences law to get an advantage for itself.

It's not a corporation, or, at least it's not one lobbying for itself. It's a clearing house for hooking up compliant legislators with lobbying interests. It organizes efforts to get legislation passed that favor it's member companies. It's fair to say this isn't "new", but ALEC really takes it to the next level. Corporate lobbyists write legislation in the form of 'templates' that are distributed by ALEC to legislators. What could be easier? "Legislators" can appease their backers and don't even have to bother writing laws. ALEC is ugly business.

Is it the only one in existence? Is it the first of its kind? Since the answer to both of those questions is no I see no reason to pretend it is yes.

I think you are purposely missing the point of their incredible success in getting laws passed verbatim by recklessly compliant state legislatures, no one and nothing even comes close in buying influence. If it was just stuff to directly benefit the member corporations I could understand if not approve but they push a pretty hard right social agenda as well and that is inexcusable, what business do corporations have in that area?

 

[dblack]

I am on topic, ALEC is hardly the only corporation that influences law to get an advantage for itself.

It's not a corporation, or, at least it's not one lobbying for itself. It's a clearing house for hooking up compliant legislators with lobbying interests. It organizes efforts to get legislation passed that favor it's member companies. It's fair to say this isn't "new", but ALEC really takes it to the next level. Corporate lobbyists write legislation in the form of 'templates' that are distributed by ALEC to legislators. What could be easier? "Legislators" can appease their backers and don't even have to bother writing laws. ALEC is ugly business.

Look up ALICE. It does the exact same thing for the left. I refuse to pretend that the problem exist only on one side.

Who's asking you to?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not a corporation, or, at least it's not one lobbying for itself. It's a clearing house for hooking up compliant legislators with lobbying interests. It organizes efforts to get legislation passed that favor it's member companies. It's fair to say this isn't "new", but ALEC really takes it to the next level. Corporate lobbyists write legislation in the form of 'templates' that are distributed by ALEC to legislators. What could be easier? "Legislators" can appease their backers and don't even have to bother writing laws. ALEC is ugly business.

Is it the only one in existence? Is it the first of its kind? Since the answer to both of those questions is no I see no reason to pretend it is yes.

I think you are purposely missing the point of their incredible success in getting laws passed verbatim by recklessly compliant state legislatures, no one and nothing even comes close in buying influence. If it was just stuff to directly benefit the member corporations I could understand if not approve but they push a pretty hard right social agenda as well and that is inexcusable, what business do corporations have in that area?

I am not missing anything. You look at ALEC, see everything they do, and want to fix it. The problem is that ALEC is a symptom, not the disease, the disease is government. If you restrict the power of government, and stop assuming that they exist to pass laws, ALEC would disappear within a week.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not a corporation, or, at least it's not one lobbying for itself. It's a clearing house for hooking up compliant legislators with lobbying interests. It organizes efforts to get legislation passed that favor it's member companies. It's fair to say this isn't "new", but ALEC really takes it to the next level. Corporate lobbyists write legislation in the form of 'templates' that are distributed by ALEC to legislators. What could be easier? "Legislators" can appease their backers and don't even have to bother writing laws. ALEC is ugly business.

Look up ALICE. It does the exact same thing for the left. I refuse to pretend that the problem exist only on one side.

Who's asking you to?

Did you read the thread?

 

[occupied]

Is it the only one in existence? Is it the first of its kind? Since the answer to both of those questions is no I see no reason to pretend it is yes.

I think you are purposely missing the point of their incredible success in getting laws passed verbatim by recklessly compliant state legislatures, no one and nothing even comes close in buying influence. If it was just stuff to directly benefit the member corporations I could understand if not approve but they push a pretty hard right social agenda as well and that is inexcusable, what business do corporations have in that area?

I am not missing anything. You look at ALEC, see everything they do, and want to fix it. The problem is that ALEC is a symptom, not the disease, the disease is government. If you restrict the power of government, and stop assuming that they exist to pass laws, ALEC would disappear within a week.

Why can your type never bring yourself to even get a little bit mad at the corporate world no matter what they do? It's the politicians fault for accepting the bribe but not the briber? Plutocracy is team sport and I tend to be at least as harsh with the puppeteer as the puppet, if not more so.

 

[clevergirl]

ALEC isn't a corporation in the sense you imply here. It's a 501 c "Association" of corporations, designed to make the profitable lobbying of the legislatures of all 50 states as efficient and secret as possible.

Read at least one link in the opening post or Google it for yourself and find a link you prefer. It helps in these discussions if you have a fucking clue as to what you're talking about.

In other words it has an agenda like every other fucking lobbying group...right?

Not really, no. There's no specific agenda. Despite the general 'conservative' moniker, what they really offer is streamlined access to politicians for corporations out to influence legislation nationwide.

Lobbyists LIVE to influence politicians! All of them... Your beef is that ALEC lobbies for corporations. It's a totally fucking retarded to think they do anything different then any other lobby does.

 

[clevergirl]

Top lobbyist spenders

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

Lobbying Database | OpenSecrets

 

[occupied]

In other words it has an agenda like every other fucking lobbying group...right?

Not really, no. There's no specific agenda. Despite the general 'conservative' moniker, what they really offer is streamlined access to politicians for corporations out to influence legislation nationwide.

Lobbyists LIVE to influence politicians! All of them... Your beef is that ALEC lobbies for corporations. It's a totally fucking retarded to think they do anything different then any other lobby does.

I'm not mad that they are lobbyists except for the fact that they call themselves anything but lobbyists to avoid disclosure laws and that there are so many elected officials so damned eager to pass their crap verbatim. They are far too successful to not be classified as a lobbying group and for us to not know who is paying them, who they are talking to and how they are so good at getting their stuff passed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think you are purposely missing the point of their incredible success in getting laws passed verbatim by recklessly compliant state legislatures, no one and nothing even comes close in buying influence. If it was just stuff to directly benefit the member corporations I could understand if not approve but they push a pretty hard right social agenda as well and that is inexcusable, what business do corporations have in that area?

I am not missing anything. You look at ALEC, see everything they do, and want to fix it. The problem is that ALEC is a symptom, not the disease, the disease is government. If you restrict the power of government, and stop assuming that they exist to pass laws, ALEC would disappear within a week.

Why can your type never bring yourself to even get a little bit mad at the corporate world no matter what they do? It's the politicians fault for accepting the bribe but not the briber? Plutocracy is team sport and I tend to be at least as harsh with the puppeteer as the puppet, if not more so.

Because I am smart enough not to get mad at symptoms.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am on topic, ALEC is hardly the only corporation that influences law to get an advantage for itself.

It's not a corporation, or, at least it's not one lobbying for itself. It's a clearing house for hooking up compliant legislators with lobbying interests. It organizes efforts to get legislation passed that favor it's member companies. It's fair to say this isn't "new", but ALEC really takes it to the next level. Corporate lobbyists write legislation in the form of 'templates' that are distributed by ALEC to legislators. What could be easier? "Legislators" can appease their backers and don't even have to bother writing laws. ALEC is ugly business.

Look up ALICE. It does the exact same thing for the left. I refuse to pretend that the problem exist only on one side.

I posted links to ALICE earlier in the thread. The difference is money and transparency. ALICE promotes specific legislation, but it doesn't wine and dine legislators at 5-star resorts in secret and it's staffed by volunteers, not high-priced lobbyists.

I also posted earlier that ALL of these lobbying groups need to become and/or remain transparent. Businesses, environmental groups, unions, etc all have the right to lobby their government - just not in secret and not with secret campaign money and gifts.

Transparency, transparency, transparency. Just as important as a fair and simple tax code, and laws requiring public budgets that are balanced as our species pursues its quest for Sentience and the stars.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am not missing anything. You look at ALEC, see everything they do, and want to fix it. The problem is that ALEC is a symptom, not the disease, the disease is government. If you restrict the power of government, and stop assuming that they exist to pass laws, ALEC would disappear within a week.

Why can your type never bring yourself to even get a little bit mad at the corporate world no matter what they do? It's the politicians fault for accepting the bribe but not the briber? Plutocracy is team sport and I tend to be at least as harsh with the puppeteer as the puppet, if not more so.

Because I am smart enough not to get mad at symptoms.

The symptoms like ALEC are hints and indicators that point to a disease of a broad culture of corruption among legislators, elected administrators and the would-be kings of America.
Ignore them at your peril, Monkeys.

Survival of the fittest explains the model we see, survival of the species is what defines 'Sentience', and the Monkeys are so fucking close... so fucking close.

Fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law, transparency in all things politics, and then, build an economy that your kids can drive to the stars.
Not rocket science, y'all.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am on topic, ALEC is hardly the only corporation that influences law to get an advantage for itself.

ALEC isn't a corporation in the sense you imply here. It's a 501 c "Association" of corporations, designed to make the profitable lobbying of the legislatures of all 50 states as efficient and secret as possible.

Read at least one link in the opening post or Google it for yourself and find a link you prefer. It helps in these discussions if you have a fucking clue as to what you're talking about.

So is ALICE. Unless you admit that you will remain the partisan hack you are.

You're starting to look stupid and you're not - you're simply uneducated... READ THE FUCKING THREAD!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...legislative-exchange-council.html#post6434134
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...gislative-exchange-council-2.html#post6434736

 

[Claudette]

No corporate socialism exists.

However, I'll take corporatism over governmentism any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I can walk away from any corporation.

Where to I go to get rid of corrupt government? Because right now, government is a hundred times more corrupt than business; and they have guns. Businesses do not.

You like running the country for their benefit alone even though it is more a threat to liberty than the government could ever be? Wannabe dirt poor serf is what you are.

No corporation is a threat to liberty. Governments are threats to liberty. No corporation can write a law that can be upheld with deadly force. A government can.

Our government is not to be run for the benefit of anyone the way you mean it. It exits to settle disputes between the State, and to protect the people from the world outside our borders.

It does NOT exit to provide us with sustenance, money, benefits, housing, or jobs.

It does not exist to help the poor, the rich, or the middle class.. It does not exist to help people specifically at all..

This is the great failure of public education.

Our children are taught that government exists to provide things for the people.

I have yet to see a corporation write a law and enforce that law on the people in any manner at all.

To complain about corporations influencing government and ignoring other groups influencing government simply because you agree with THEIR influence is the height of hypocrisy.

Big assed Bingo. Great post and I agree 110%.

Govt isn't here to take care of anyone. And you bet the only orgs these folks are interesed in demonizing are anything that the Reps are pushing while ignoring the orgs that the Dems are pushing.

 

[AVG-JOE]

There is no 'definition' for government. Government is here to do whatever YOU, The People want it to do!

The trick is to have everything government does out in the open for ALL to discuss.

Transparency...

Transparency...​

Transparency!​

 

[dblack]

There is no 'definition' for government. Government is here to do whatever YOU, The People want it to do!

I have to take issue with this. Defining government is what constitutions are all about. And when it comes to the US Constitution, unlimited majority rule isn't part of the deal.

The trick is to have everything government does out in the open for ALL to discuss.

Transparency...

Transparency...​

Transparency!​

Agreed, indeed.

 

[dblack]

In other words it has an agenda like every other fucking lobbying group...right?

Not really, no. There's no specific agenda. Despite the general 'conservative' moniker, what they really offer is streamlined access to politicians for corporations out to influence legislation nationwide.

Lobbyists LIVE to influence politicians! All of them... Your beef is that ALEC lobbies for corporations. It's a totally fucking retarded to think they do anything different then any other lobby does.

It's totally retarded to assume you know what they do without any investigation. As the OP and others have pointed out, ALEC is a quantum leap from ordinary lobbying efforts. It's the same kind of influence peddling, but on a massive scale that, essentially, turns the whole process into a franchise.

Most of you can't see past the partisan pissing match aspect of this story - but you should look. It's really poisonous stuff, regardless of whose 'side' they're on.

 

[AVG-JOE]

There is no 'definition' for government. Government is here to do whatever YOU, The People want it to do!

I have to take issue with this. Defining government is what constitutions are all about. And when it comes to the US Constitution, unlimited majority rule isn't part of the deal.

I appreciate that, but what exactly is any constitution if not a current definition of government that's subject to change by either amendment or revolution?

You, The People are in charge, at least on paper... Corruption like ALEC is the reason it's only 'on paper'.

 

[clevergirl]

Not really, no. There's no specific agenda. Despite the general 'conservative' moniker, what they really offer is streamlined access to politicians for corporations out to influence legislation nationwide.

Lobbyists LIVE to influence politicians! All of them... Your beef is that ALEC lobbies for corporations. It's a totally fucking retarded to think they do anything different then any other lobby does.

It's totally retarded to assume you know what they do without any investigation. As the OP and others have pointed out, ALEC is a quantum leap from ordinary lobbying efforts. It's the same kind of influence peddling, but on a massive scale that, essentially, turns the whole process into a franchise.

Most of you can't see past the partisan pissing match aspect of this story - but you should look. It's really poisonous stuff, regardless of whose 'side' they're on.

It is NOT a quantum leap. It is EXACTLY the same. What you don't like is that its aim is antithetical to the "social justice" agenda of progressives! It's not like there are not liberal progressive lobby efforts idgit! The two should balance each other out just fine thank you very fucking much!