CDZ A discussion regarding the rights and wrongs of a cartoon

I

Indofred

Guest
TO BE CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL DID 9/11 - IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF PUBLISHING THIS CARTOON.
Insults and general crap aren't part of this thread, just insult free opinion.

This cartoon was published in an Israeli newspaper a few days ago.
Do you think the cartoonist was justified in using satire in this way, or are such things totally out of bounds?
I understand, the cartoonist was trying to suggest Netty is leading Israel into a disaster, and his newspaper had backed him up (up to the last time I looked).

Before you post, please note:

THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL WAS BEHIND 9/11 - THAT IS FOR OTHER THREADS.

CLEAN DEBATE ZONE RULES, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, DEMANDS REASONABLE, CRAP FREE ANSWERS.


Screen-Shot-2014-10-30-at-5.07.10-PM.png
 
It probably is in poor taste, but why is it any worse than the many jokes told about 9/11, the mass of political crap spouted about the same, or any other cartoons that are in equally bad taste?
None of the others prompted such outrage in Israel.
 
It's not even related to the current situation...9/11 is a very touchy subject in the USA...people have died for less...

The cartoon was published a very short time ago - that's pretty current.
I'm unsure who has died over this or anything of its nature in the US - perhaps you could inform us.
As for 9/11 being touchy, of course it is, but there are hundreds of bad, extremely offensive jokes around, why is this any worse?
 
I laughed my ass off. But I do that quite often when enjoying the celebration of free speech. What's more offensive, a cartoon, or half a billion lunatic bastards threatening to kill the cartoonist?

That's an interesting observation, and probably correct.
I'm unsure a cartoonist should be hunted down and killed for his work, regardless of how stupid or offensive it is, but I'm unsure why this is taken so badly in Israel.
I could see it in America.
 
the cartoon comes out of the newspaper Ha'aretz------a sensationalist rag
that serves as a platform for every desperate sensationalist nut in Israel----
any idiot who can come up with sensationalist crap gets to see his name
in print by donating articles and pieces to the paper----that way it keeps its
budget down by never having to pay "writers" or "reporters". It allows
scum like Uri Avneri and Gideon Levy----to keep their names on the
supper lists of the idiot pseudo intellects of tel aviv. I would describe it as
typical for that silly rag

I would also describe Freddie's line>>>
>ישראל היא כמו סקס עם חזיר; אין אנשים הגיוניים ---רוצים את זה

as typical of the khutbah jumaat. There is no way to
understand current events if you have never experienced
such an obscene speech-----delivered forth in the presence of
young boys, and the scent of sweaty sock
 
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Amos Biderman said:
“It was certainly not my intention to insult or upset anyone,” [cartoonist Amos Biderman] told Haaretz on Thursday. “I wasn’t sufficiently aware of the great sensitivity that 9/11 holds for Americans.”

I find that quite hard to believe.
 
Amos Biderman said:
“It was certainly not my intention to insult or upset anyone,” [cartoonist Amos Biderman] told Haaretz on Thursday. “I wasn’t sufficiently aware of the great sensitivity that 9/11 holds for Americans.”

I find that quite hard to believe.

I don't------intelligent people do not take crap from
Ha'aretz seriously. Idiots quote it.
 
The debate, should it be conducted properly, should look at the limits a cartoonist can reach before he becomes offensive.
 
The debate, should it be conducted properly, should look at the limits a cartoonist can reach before he becomes offensive.

offensive to whom? A compendium of cartoons and "offensive level"-----would make a nice dissertation. Some of the political cartoons published in the 19th
century USA are really raunchy,

PS your khutbah jumaat signature line is offensive to all but depraved dogs----speaking of which-----is the HAJJ thing over for this season---or has it not yet started?
 
The debate, should it be conducted properly, should look at the limits a cartoonist can reach before he becomes offensive.

offensive to whom? A compendium of cartoons and "offensive level"-----would make a nice dissertation. Some of the political cartoons published in the 19th
century USA are really raunchy,

PS your khutbah jumaat signature line is offensive to all but depraved dogs----speaking of which-----is the HAJJ thing over for this season---or has it not yet started?

A dissertation, assuming it was well written, would be interesting reading.
As you say, other cartoons have been quite nasty.

1896-cartoon-2.jpg


Brown-cartoon-of-Sharon.jpg

The latter directly accuses Ariel Sharon of terrorism and involvement in 9/11 but didn't seem to infuriate as much as this one has, but there was a demand for an apology - one they never got.

What makes the cartoon in the OP worse?
 
PS - My sig line, much as you dislike it, has nothing to do with the thread.
 
PS - My sig line, much as you dislike it, has nothing to do with the thread.

you sig is part of your post Freddie
ישראל היא כמו סקס עם חזיר; אין אנשים הגיוניים רוצים את זה
It represents both you and the filth and depravity of your
culture and creed. ---in fact, it does so CHARACTERISTICALLY---
As a point of interest----WORDS ---are very important amongst the meccaist
scum. ----even non arab meccaist scum. The use of very vulgar language is
SO IMPORTANT----that in the filth of shariah it is absolutely legal for a
meccaist dog to throw very broad insults at non muslims-----but a CAPITAL
CRIME for a non muslim to return the compliment--------Historically---the Aden
pogrom of 1947 was based on a libel that some jew had said a vulgar word
to a meccaist slut. -----INTRESTINGLY-----some of the most vulgar crap
emerges from behind the black rags of niqabis. I was in a local supermarket---
located near a meccaist enclave-----rummaging thru the produce one of my
co-rummagers was a niqabi veiled to the eyelashes----with her a gaggle of
little kids The slut dropped a bunch of beets and out from behind those "holy rags"-----she issue an oral fart----"KUS ACHTAH"----(XXXX your sister)-----
I was startled because of the presence of the children and looked at her and
then the kids-----she responded angrily

Edited for language.
 
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TO BE CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL DID 9/11 - IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF PUBLISHING THIS CARTOON.
Insults and general crap aren't part of this thread, just insult free opinion.

This cartoon was published in an Israeli newspaper a few days ago.
Do you think the cartoonist was justified in using satire in this way, or are such things totally out of bounds?
I understand, the cartoonist was trying to suggest Netty is leading Israel into a disaster, and his newspaper had backed him up (up to the last time I looked).

Before you post, please note:

THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL WAS BEHIND 9/11 - THAT IS FOR OTHER THREADS.

CLEAN DEBATE ZONE RULES, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, DEMANDS REASONABLE, CRAP FREE ANSWERS.


Screen-Shot-2014-10-30-at-5.07.10-PM.png

This cartoon was published in Ha'aretz, not surprisingly.

I think it was made in a bad taste, and Ha'aretz was known to put cartoons in a bad taste before.

Question should be, when does cartoon crosses the line and becomes incitement?

For that, let me bring you and earlier example, added to a story.

Few months ago, a story went public in Israel, regarding a 17 year old student, who wrote to a minister (who ceased to be one, but never mind that) about a letter she sent the education minister, regarding a letter she handed to her Citizenship teacher, young man called Adam Verta.

In class, the teacher, holding stricktly leftist views, told about the IDF being the most immoral army, encouraged rebellion and waved the PLO flag. She wrote him a letter asking him to refrain from doing so. She adressed him to the Article of the education office, which says that teacher should present unbiased opinions. When she adressed him in class saying his teaching lack this basic ethnic rule, she was humiliated.

Needless to say, after she expressed her displeasure of the teacher waving the Palestinian flag, he "turnabouted" her in grades. Writing to the ministers, she asked for something to be done, since "she can't go into class" anymore without feeling discomfort.

So after she wrote that, her letter had gone viral, and the teacher was summoned to a pre-firing hearing. It created a huge question of a teacher's freedom of expression, and so on and so forth.

But that's the background story. Now, Ha'aretz did a very unpleasant thing, and created a cartoon of that student, "firing" on her teachers and classmates.

1627477-5.jpg


A teenage girl supposedly "murdering" her teachers, just for handing off a letter. Isn't it deeply hurtful, out of proportion, and inciting?

Interestingly enough, it was painted by the same "Biderman" of the Netanyahu cartoon.

What exactly is the limit Ha'arez allows?
 
It probably is in poor taste, but why is it any worse than the many jokes told about 9/11, the mass of political crap spouted about the same, or any other cartoons that are in equally bad taste?
None of the others prompted such outrage in Israel.

Not true at all. There were planty which prompted outrage.
 
Biderman seems like an airhead to me------political cartoons ---are supposed to
have some artistic value----some wit -----and convey some sort of message----his ---as far as the ones I have seen--------- are idiotically juvenile and vulgar
 
Bad taste isn't a crime. If it were, much of American (and Israeli too) MSM, as well as Hollywood, would be out of business fast wouldn't they? Bad taste is a matter of perspective. I find that 19th century cartoon of the crucified Jew to be in bad taste, very bad taste. But I also find one of Israel's top rabbi's comments that gentiles were created as ignorant pack animals ("donkeys" I believe he called them) for the Jew, to be rather offensive also. Several hundred thousand Israelis didn't find it offensive. They accepted it as statement of fact.
 

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