CDZ A discussion regarding the rights and wrongs of a cartoon

[RetiredGySgt]

TO BE CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL DID 9/11 - IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF PUBLISHING THIS CARTOON.
Insults and general crap aren't part of this thread, just insult free opinion.

This cartoon was published in an Israeli newspaper a few days ago.
Do you think the cartoonist was justified in using satire in this way, or are such things totally out of bounds?
I understand, the cartoonist was trying to suggest Netty is leading Israel into a disaster, and his newspaper had backed him up (up to the last time I looked).

Before you post, please note:
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL WAS BEHIND 9/11 - THAT IS FOR OTHER THREADS.

CLEAN DEBATE ZONE RULES, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, DEMANDS REASONABLE, CRAP FREE ANSWERS.

Was the murder rioting and destruction done by Muslims after the Mohammad cartoons the right response?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's not even related to the current situation...9/11 is a very touchy subject in the USA...people have died for less...

The cartoon was published a very short time ago - that's pretty current.
I'm unsure who has died over this or anything of its nature in the US - perhaps you could inform us.
As for 9/11 being touchy, of course it is, but there are hundreds of bad, extremely offensive jokes around, why is this any worse?

Why was the Mohammad cartoons so bad that riots, murder and destruction of property were justified?

 

[irosie91]

Bad taste isn't a crime. If it were, much of American (and Israeli too) MSM, as well as Hollywood, would be out of business fast wouldn't they? Bad taste is a matter of perspective. I find that 19th century cartoon of the crucified Jew to be in bad taste, very bad taste. But I also find one of Israel's top rabbi's comments that gentiles were created as ignorant pack animals ("donkeys" I believe he called them) for the Jew, to be rather offensive also. Several hundred thousand Israelis didn't find it offensive. They accepted it as statement of fact.

what makes you think that several hundred thousand Israelis regarded the casual
coffee time on Saturday comments of some 90 year old Iraqi born rabbi as "fact"??? you got a link? You are clueless

 

[irosie91]

TO BE CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL DID 9/11 - IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF PUBLISHING THIS CARTOON.
Insults and general crap aren't part of this thread, just insult free opinion.

This cartoon was published in an Israeli newspaper a few days ago.
Do you think the cartoonist was justified in using satire in this way, or are such things totally out of bounds?
I understand, the cartoonist was trying to suggest Netty is leading Israel into a disaster, and his newspaper had backed him up (up to the last time I looked).

Before you post, please note:
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL WAS BEHIND 9/11 - THAT IS FOR OTHER THREADS.

CLEAN DEBATE ZONE RULES, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, DEMANDS REASONABLE, CRAP FREE ANSWERS.

Was the murder rioting and destruction done by Muslims after the Mohammad cartoons the right response?

since I learned about islam from muslims-----mostly from south east asia----I can
answer that question. The murderous rioting enacted by muslims following the simple line drawing cartoon of a generic arab with a fire cracker in his turban
was ABSOLUTELY WARRANTED-----it PROVES how ardent are muslims in their LOVE for allah and muhummad. The fact that jews do not riot and kill
each other PROVES THAT JEWS HATE GOD

 

[Lipush]

Bad taste isn't a crime. If it were, much of American (and Israeli too) MSM, as well as Hollywood, would be out of business fast wouldn't they? Bad taste is a matter of perspective. I find that 19th century cartoon of the crucified Jew to be in bad taste, very bad taste. But I also find one of Israel's top rabbi's comments that gentiles were created as ignorant pack animals ("donkeys" I believe he called them) for the Jew, to be rather offensive also. Several hundred thousand Israelis didn't find it offensive. They accepted it as statement of fact.

The Rabbi you talk about is deceased, and was known for both faults and good deeds. However, the damaging people of Israel are still very much alive. And young and ignorant, on top of it.

 

[Indofred]

It's not even related to the current situation...9/11 is a very touchy subject in the USA...people have died for less...

The cartoon was published a very short time ago - that's pretty current.
I'm unsure who has died over this or anything of its nature in the US - perhaps you could inform us.
As for 9/11 being touchy, of course it is, but there are hundreds of bad, extremely offensive jokes around, why is this any worse?

Why was the Mohammad cartoons so bad that riots, murder and destruction of property were justified?

A comparison between these two cartoons of the insult caused would be a valid post - to simply ask an off topic question, is not.

In my opinion, both were designed to be offensive, but for different reasons, and aimed at different targets.

 

[Indofred]

It probably is in poor taste, but why is it any worse than the many jokes told about 9/11, the mass of political crap spouted about the same, or any other cartoons that are in equally bad taste?
None of the others prompted such outrage in Israel.

Not true at all. There were planty which prompted outrage.

Perhaps you could expand on that, citing examples.

 

[Lipush]

It probably is in poor taste, but why is it any worse than the many jokes told about 9/11, the mass of political crap spouted about the same, or any other cartoons that are in equally bad taste?
None of the others prompted such outrage in Israel.

Not true at all. There were planty which prompted outrage.

Perhaps you could expand on that, citing examples.

Like the one with the 17 year old high school student. Read my previous post.

 

[Indofred]

What exactly is the limit Ha'arez allows?

That's part of the question.
Is their limit beyond the limits of socially acceptable behaviour, or is it just a bunch of politicians that get upset?

 

[Lipush]

What exactly is the limit Ha'arez allows?

That's part of the question.
Is their limit beyond the limits of socially acceptable behaviour, or is it just a bunch of politicians that get upset?

That's a very phyilosiphical (sp?) question, I think.

It's not about politicians, as I think it's more about "sensitive issues". Like 9/11 is a sensitive issue. Like... minors.

In the case of Sapir Sabah, the high school student, leave aside the political thing of left and right, and you realize that once you find yourself in the middle of a debate, people can "express" their freedom of thought in a cruel way. You can take the expressional freedom and ruin someone's life in that.

So you go criticizing your teacher (which by the way, opinion doesn't matter, it could have been opinion against right-wingers as well, the idea is the same) and suddenly people paint you shooting your classmates. and a paper that is read by the thousands. So yeah, it's a very bad tasting. Kosher, but stinks, as they say

 

[irosie91]

Bad taste isn't a crime. If it were, much of American (and Israeli too) MSM, as well as Hollywood, would be out of business fast wouldn't they? Bad taste is a matter of perspective. I find that 19th century cartoon of the crucified Jew to be in bad taste, very bad taste. But I also find one of Israel's top rabbi's comments that gentiles were created as ignorant pack animals ("donkeys" I believe he called them) for the Jew, to be rather offensive also. Several hundred thousand Israelis didn't find it offensive. They accepted it as statement of fact.

The Rabbi you talk about is deceased, and was known for both faults and good deeds. However, the damaging people of Israel are still very much alive. And young and ignorant, on top of it.

does not matter Lipush----the islamo Nazis have SO LITTLE upon which to focus
their hatreds-----an off hand comment by a 90 year old man-----who actually was
victimized by deadly pogroms in his youth in Baghdad (he was ---In general referring
to arabs ----I believe---as the "DONKEY" ) is BIG NEWS in the world of Nazi.
That imams rant JOOOOS IS PIGS AND MONKEYS regularly------Friday afternoon
to gaggles of goggle eyed imbeciles in mosques-----is no news at all. ----just a norm

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

does not matter Lipush----the islamo Nazis have SO LITTLE upon which to focus
their hatreds-----an off hand comment by a 90 year old man-----who actually was
victimized by deadly pogroms in his youth in Baghdad (he was ---In general referring
to arabs ----I believe---as the "DONKEY" ) is BIG NEWS in the world of Nazi.
That imams rant JOOOOS IS PIGS AND MONKEYS regularly------Friday afternoon
to gaggles of goggle eyed imbeciles in mosques-----is no news at all. ----just a norm

Why don't you tone down the anger? You sound well informed...if everything you say is true. I'm on Israel's side. They need all the friends they can get. And I could give a shit if anyone is offended by a cartoon. It's when society doesn't have the right to get offended by tasteless cartoons that things always start getting dangerous, especially for the guy who wrote the cartoon, or the editorial, or the essay, or the book.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Poor Netty, I generally like that guy, though I won't claim to have gone very far out of my way to research the current Israel/Palestine conflict in all of its intricacies. Anyway, that said. . .

Out of bounds? For satire? Marking anything out of bounds, particularly for political speech/satire, is holy shit retarded. That's the first step toward the people in power deciding that satire poking fun at them and their policies is too dangerous. For the very practical reason of perpetuating freedom of the press, political satire should -never- be considered out of bounds, no matter how offensive someone finds it.

FYI, I love me some 9/11 jokes. Dead baby jokes are great, too, along with racist and sexist humor. The entire point of comedy is to add levity to all the dark, horrible shit life throws at us. Laughing at stuff that's completely horrible and inappropriate is exactly the point of laughter.

 

[irosie91]

does not matter Lipush----the islamo Nazis have SO LITTLE upon which to focus
their hatreds-----an off hand comment by a 90 year old man-----who actually was
victimized by deadly pogroms in his youth in Baghdad (he was ---In general referring
to arabs ----I believe---as the "DONKEY" ) is BIG NEWS in the world of Nazi.
That imams rant JOOOOS IS PIGS AND MONKEYS regularly------Friday afternoon
to gaggles of goggle eyed imbeciles in mosques-----is no news at all. ----just a norm

Why don't you tone down the anger? You sound well informed...if everything you say is true. I'm on Israel's side. They need all the friends they can get. And I could give a shit if anyone is offended by a cartoon. It's when society doesn't have the right to get offended by tasteless cartoons that things always start getting dangerous, especially for the guy who wrote the cartoon, or the editorial, or the essay, or the book.

what anger? I have no anger and everything I post is true-------lots of people get
offended by political cartoons------some of the political cartoons aimed at
Abraham Lincoln were obscene-------some people were offended----I see no reason at all ---EVER for anyone to get aggressive over a cartoon-----unless---of course, the object of scorn is Mickey Mouse

 

[Delta4Embassy]

TO BE CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL DID 9/11 - IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF PUBLISHING THIS CARTOON.
Insults and general crap aren't part of this thread, just insult free opinion.

This cartoon was published in an Israeli newspaper a few days ago.
Do you think the cartoonist was justified in using satire in this way, or are such things totally out of bounds?
I understand, the cartoonist was trying to suggest Netty is leading Israel into a disaster, and his newspaper had backed him up (up to the last time I looked).

Before you post, please note:
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL WAS BEHIND 9/11 - THAT IS FOR OTHER THREADS.

CLEAN DEBATE ZONE RULES, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, DEMANDS REASONABLE, CRAP FREE ANSWERS.

Incredibly poor taste. Hyperbolistic too. Whatever the current state of US-Israeli relations, they're no where near US-Arab world relations where that paralell makes any kind of sense.

 

[irosie91]

TO BE CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL DID 9/11 - IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF PUBLISHING THIS CARTOON.
Insults and general crap aren't part of this thread, just insult free opinion.

This cartoon was published in an Israeli newspaper a few days ago.
Do you think the cartoonist was justified in using satire in this way, or are such things totally out of bounds?
I understand, the cartoonist was trying to suggest Netty is leading Israel into a disaster, and his newspaper had backed him up (up to the last time I looked).

Before you post, please note:
THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION ISRAEL WAS BEHIND 9/11 - THAT IS FOR OTHER THREADS.

CLEAN DEBATE ZONE RULES, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, DEMANDS REASONABLE, CRAP FREE ANSWERS.

Incredibly poor taste. Hyperbolistic too. Whatever the current state of US-Israeli relations, they're no where near US-Arab world relations where that paralell makes any kind of sense.

true---but political cartoons are like that-----no need to get pulled out of shape
because of an idiotic political cartoon by lack telent idiot like Biderman