A day to be remembered or forgotten?

[Freewill]

When remembering it, I wish people remembered it accurately. It was not an unprovoked attack as the US had been doing things against Japan resulting in their hitting us. And technically we fired first sinking a midget sub. Japan didn't wake up one day and say "hey! let's for no particular reason attack the usa!"

The continued support being given to Japan after the '37-'38 Rape of Nanking and the horrendous war crimes being committed by Japan was making America an accessory to those atrocities and crimes. In addition, a nation has a right to do business with whom it chooses. To blame the USA for refusing to supply Japan with the tools of war is to suggest support that the nation should have accepted being extorted.

You are correct, but in fact the embargo on oil did give reason for Japan to attack. Were there alternatives? Don't know. Biggest problem, FDR must not have realized that consequences of what he did. He certainly didn't seem to take many precautions.

Not a valid reason to declare war, only an excuse. It was pretty common knowledge and actually predicted that Japan would attack, but everyone thought the attack would be on the Philippines. The attack on Pearl Harbor came as a shock. Heck, the USA did not even know the Japanese had found a way to produce shallow water capable torpedo's that made the harbor susceptible to torpedo attack. There is a long list of mistakes made that enabled the success of the Japanese attack. Who knows, if the mistakes hadn't been made and the protocols in place had been followed history may have been written about how well FDR had prepared for the Pearl Harbor attack. The warning from DC was delayed and radar spotted the attack aircraft in time to launch to meet them. A timely delivery of the warning message may have also caused the carriers at sea to turn around and sail to meet the Japanese fleet, or at least to protect the harbor.

Actually I meant an alternative to the embargo. Don't you think that the embargo would put a strangle hold on the Japanese economy? I would have to think it would take a whole lot of denial to not realize the results of a oil embargo against Japan. Maybe it is just clearer looking back in history but I am thinking FDR had to have wanted war. Maybe not but looking back through the prism of time it apparently looks that way. Doesn't seem he did much in the Philippines either if he thought the attack would be there. In my opinion, the Japanese would have been better served attacking the Philippines. Pulling out our carrier fleet right before the attack and Japan attacking any way always has made me wonder.

 

[Unkotare]

Japan should have attacked the USSR, attacking the USA made absolutely no sense on any level

Made perfect sense. US had an energy embargo on Japan, had sided against them with the Chinese. And in a few more years Japan woulda starved with no energy. As an island nation they're dependent on imports, cut those off everyone dies. Military solution was not only unavoidable but absolutely justified.

Or they could have stopped their imperialism and the rape of Nanking and joined the civilized world. But they decided to pick a fight they never had a chance of winning. Doesn't make much sense. Since the US were the ones supplying Japan with oil, what good did it do them to attack the US?

They had developed their national strategies based on the last several hundred years of global history were advancing and developing meant having an Empire.

Giving up on that would have meant accepting permanent Second Class for their nation.

Seems to me they are doing pretty well now without much of an army or navy.

"without much of an army or navy"


??????????????

 

[Camp]

When remembering it, I wish people remembered it accurately. It was not an unprovoked attack as the US had been doing things against Japan resulting in their hitting us. And technically we fired first sinking a midget sub. Japan didn't wake up one day and say "hey! let's for no particular reason attack the usa!"

The continued support being given to Japan after the '37-'38 Rape of Nanking and the horrendous war crimes being committed by Japan was making America an accessory to those atrocities and crimes. In addition, a nation has a right to do business with whom it chooses. To blame the USA for refusing to supply Japan with the tools of war is to suggest support that the nation should have accepted being extorted.

You are correct, but in fact the embargo on oil did give reason for Japan to attack. Were there alternatives? Don't know. Biggest problem, FDR must not have realized that consequences of what he did. He certainly didn't seem to take many precautions.

Not a valid reason to declare war, only an excuse. It was pretty common knowledge and actually predicted that Japan would attack, but everyone thought the attack would be on the Philippines. The attack on Pearl Harbor came as a shock. Heck, the USA did not even know the Japanese had found a way to produce shallow water capable torpedo's that made the harbor susceptible to torpedo attack. There is a long list of mistakes made that enabled the success of the Japanese attack. Who knows, if the mistakes hadn't been made and the protocols in place had been followed history may have been written about how well FDR had prepared for the Pearl Harbor attack. The warning from DC was delayed and radar spotted the attack aircraft in time to launch to meet them. A timely delivery of the warning message may have also caused the carriers at sea to turn around and sail to meet the Japanese fleet, or at least to protect the harbor.

Actually I meant an alternative to the embargo. Don't you think that the embargo would put a strangle hold on the Japanese economy? I would have to think it would take a whole lot of denial to not realize the results of a oil embargo against Japan. Maybe it is just clearer looking back in history but I am thinking FDR had to have wanted war. Maybe not but looking back through the prism of time it apparently looks that way. Doesn't seem he did much in the Philippines either if he thought the attack would be there. In my opinion, the Japanese would have been better served attacking the Philippines. Pulling out our carrier fleet right before the attack and Japan attacking any way always has made me wonder.

I agree with most of what you are saying. I,however, do not believe FDR wanted the war in the Pacific, I think he probably saw it as unavoidable. I also think too much confidence was placed on MacArthur. Pearl prevented the rescue of the Philippines.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Japan should have attacked the USSR, attacking the USA made absolutely no sense on any level

Made perfect sense. US had an energy embargo on Japan, had sided against them with the Chinese. And in a few more years Japan woulda starved with no energy. As an island nation they're dependent on imports, cut those off everyone dies. Military solution was not only unavoidable but absolutely justified.

Why did we embargo Japan in the first place? They were natural enemies of the Communists. Oh, right FDR was being advised by the Communists