A Couple Of "thoughts" On The Islamic State

[Mac1958]

Actually, the guy is a one man recruiter for the ISIL cause.

The people of the Middle East are sick and tired of western intervention into their lands.

Over the last two decades, hundreds of thousands of muslims have been killed, constant invasions, bombings, dronings, puppet dictators installed and given weapons, sanctions, etc.

Now here comes group that says "F**K You" to the infidel secular western nations.

The average middle east muslim may not agree with their methods......but they applaud someone finally standing up for them........ the common man.

And maybe, just maybe the western nations may just say F*CK YOU back. BAM!!

Which could, in the long run, just make everything worse.

.

Surely we know where the ISIS headquarters or training camps are. For every beheading, we take out 500 ISIS members minimum.

If I was a hostage, just waiting for my time for the beheading, I'd be praying for those bombings, hoping I would be in the mix. I'd rather go that way without my head cut off!

Yeah, I'm assuming that at some point we'll have enough intelligence in there and enough citizens willing to rat them out, so that we can find places where they gather like cockroaches.

Seems to me we need to get that kind of momentum, and that could tip the scales.

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Having worked at the highest levels of intelligence, it's always fun listening to someone so massively uninformed as you talk about intelligence.

ETA: Or talk about Iraq or the Middle East for that matter.

This has been a civil, mature conversation so far.

I'm hoping you won't change that.

.

 

[tinydancer]

I want to add this before I bail to go finish up my garden. I hope I don't come off as "basher" because I know I'm not a "blame America first" person.

But obviously our interference of late has completely destabalized the ME worse than ever before and instead of it being just a dog's breakfast we've gone and pushed it over the edge into the FUBAR'D category.

The most obvious tactic to rid the ME of IS would be to work with Assad.

But no. Obama is still blathering on about arming moderate rebels when there are none. All because he still wants to depose Assad.

It's crazy.

 

[EconChick]

Actually, the guy is a one man recruiter for the ISIL cause.

The people of the Middle East are sick and tired of western intervention into their lands.

Over the last two decades, hundreds of thousands of muslims have been killed, constant invasions, bombings, dronings, puppet dictators installed and given weapons, sanctions, etc.

Now here comes group that says "F**K You" to the infidel secular western nations.

The average middle east muslim may not agree with their methods......but they applaud someone finally standing up for them........ the common man.

And maybe, just maybe the western nations may just say F*CK YOU back. BAM!!

Which could, in the long run, just make everything worse.

.

Surely we know where the ISIS headquarters or training camps are. For every beheading, we take out 500 ISIS members minimum.

If I was a hostage, just waiting for my time for the beheading, I'd be praying for those bombings, hoping I would be in the mix. I'd rather go that way without my head cut off!

Yeah, I'm assuming that at some point we'll have enough intelligence in there and enough citizens willing to rat them out, so that we can find places where they gather like cockroaches.

Seems to me we need to get that kind of momentum, and that could tip the scales.

.

Having worked at the highest levels of intelligence, it's always fun listening to someone so massively uninformed as you talk about intelligence.

ETA: Or talk about Iraq or the Middle East for that matter.

This has been a civil, mature conversation so far.

I'm hoping you won't change that.

.

Dude, let's get something straight. You libs, or you other people who run around stating lies about what we did in Iraq, will be held to account. Many, many lives HAVE been and WILL be at stake. War is ugly and it is hell.

If you're such a timid person that winces at being referred to as "massively uninformed," perhaps you shouldn't be talking about WAR in the first place.

Try telling the families of all the people I personally knew who died...both Iraqi and American....that this is not an emotional subject. Propaganda is an extension of the war effort....and whether you realize it or not....you are part of that effort by discussing this topic when you don't have your facts right.

It's one thing to ask and ponder, but it's another to state incorrect things as FACT that you have no firsthand experience with. If you do, expect to be challenged.

 

[Mac1958]

This has been a civil, mature conversation so far.

I'm hoping you won't change that.

.

Dude, let's get something straight. You libs, or you other people who run around stating lies about what we did in Iraq, will be held to account. Many, many lives HAVE been and WILL be at stake. War is ugly and it is hell.

If you're such a timid person that winces at being referred to as "massively uninformed," perhaps you shouldn't be talking about WAR in the first place.

Try telling the families of all the people I personally knew who died...both Iraqi and American....that this is not an emotional subject. Propaganda is an extension of the war effort....and whether you realize it or not....you are part of that effort by discussing this topic when you don't have your facts right.

It's one thing to ask and ponder, but it's another to state incorrect things as FACT that you have no firsthand experience with. If you do, expect to be challenged.

Perhaps you can tell me precisely what I have said that you find incorrect.

.

 

[deltex1]

They accepted western technology to get oil out of the ground...and accepted western dollars to make them rich...and now bitch about interference? That goat don't hunt.

The western nations installed puppet dictators in order to get lucrative oil contracts.

Then they gave these brutal dictators massive amounts of weapons to keep their citizens in line.

By and large the average citizen of those nations never saw any of the western oil money.

You didn't address the brutal dictator Maliki.

 

[Sunni Man]

I am a Vietnam vet who picked up a sign and joined a street protested against the up coming 2003 invasion of Iraq.

But the uninformed American people wanted revenge against somebody......anybody.....for 9/11

And the result is now complete chaos and instability throughout the middle east.


We should look at the country of Vietnam after the U.S. withdrew and left the people alone to chart their own destiny.

Vietnam is now a stable country with a vibrant economy.........and a trading partner with America.


We should follow the Vietnam example of hands off by the U.S. in the Middle East countries. ...

 

[Mac1958]

Interesting, Tom Friedman covers this very topic this morning:

ISIS loses if our moderate Arab-Muslim partners can unite and make this a civil war within Islam — a civil war in which America is the air force for the Sunnis and Shiites of decency versus those of barbarism. ISIS wins if it can make this America’s war with Sunni Islam — a war where America is the Shiite/Alawite air force against Sunnis in Iraq and Syria.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/o...-isis-isnt-all-about-us.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

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[dilloduck]

Interesting, Tom Friedman covers this very topic this morning:

ISIS loses if our moderate Arab-Muslim partners can unite and make this a civil war within Islam — a civil war in which America is the air force for the Sunnis and Shiites of decency versus those of barbarism. ISIS wins if it can make this America’s war with Sunni Islam — a war where America is the Shiite/Alawite air force against Sunnis in Iraq and Syria.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/o...-isis-isnt-all-about-us.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

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The " moderate " rebels have already made peace with ISIS in Syria. Does Obama still want to train and arm them ? May as well because this isn't as much about ISIS as it is deposing a dictator.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Just thinking out loud here...

... this "Jihadi John" guy apparently is the one who is beheading people. To what end, I wonder? Surely he knows the West is going to react, that what he's doing is pissing off and motivating a lot of people. Does he think that our military response can be defeated by 31,000 psychopaths?

... I wonder what the rest of ISIS thinks of him. I wonder if he's a loose cannon or if they agree with him. One guy with a video camera and internet access doesn't necessarily speak for all of them. He's inviting a shitload of trouble, and surely they know it.

... I also wonder if/when the people there turn against these animals. The first, and fairly easy, thing that could happen is they could rat out these guys when they have a chance. They can't beat them with guns obviously, but the people can be used for intelligence.

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So.... he's what?....The Lee Harvey Oswald of radical Islam?

 

[Mac1958]

I want to add this before I bail to go finish up my garden. I hope I don't come off as "basher" because I know I'm not a "blame America first" person.

But obviously our interference of late has completely destabalized the ME worse than ever before and instead of it being just a dog's breakfast we've gone and pushed it over the edge into the FUBAR'D category.

The most obvious tactic to rid the ME of IS would be to work with Assad.

But no. Obama is still blathering on about arming moderate rebels when there are none. All because he still wants to depose Assad.

It's crazy.

We put ourselves into these impossible situations where our sworn enemy is a strong friend for this week, and back again next week.

And there is no better illustration of how this is a bad idea, than those ISIS assholes slaughtering people with OUR weaponry.

This type of "foreign policy" is insane.

This is the predictable result of habitually sticking our nose into the affairs of other sovereign countries.

.

 

[tinydancer]

Interesting, Tom Friedman covers this very topic this morning:

ISIS loses if our moderate Arab-Muslim partners can unite and make this a civil war within Islam — a civil war in which America is the air force for the Sunnis and Shiites of decency versus those of barbarism. ISIS wins if it can make this America’s war with Sunni Islam — a war where America is the Shiite/Alawite air force against Sunnis in Iraq and Syria.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/o...-isis-isnt-all-about-us.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

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No one can name the moderate rebels. Astounding don't you think? If they are out there shouldn't we be able to name their groups?

The ones we supposedly could name at the beginning were the Free Syrian Army but they've been cutting mega deals with al Nusra. Al Qaeda in Syria. Other supposed moderates have joined IS.

So who exactly are we going to arm and train again? I'd like to hear a name of a group or organization.

Because "moderate rebels" appear to be as elusive as the legendary Chupacabra or Big Foot.

I think everyone in the media who backs arming moderate rebels in Syria should begin their OP ED with "Once upon a time" because it's a freaking fairy tale to believe you're going to find any.

From a great article. ...

"Who are the “moderate” rebels whom Obama wants to train and arm?

He doesn’t name them – and he can’t, because the original “moderates” whom America swore to arm (with the help of the CIA, the Brits, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey) were the so-called “Free Syrian Army”, mostly composed of deserters from Assad’s government forces.

But the FSA – briefly beloved of John McCain until he discovered a pro-al-Qa’ida fighter sharing a photo-op with him in northern Syria – has decomposed.

Its men have gone home, switched to the bearded Islamists of the Nusrah or Isis – or Isil if we heed the latest acronym – or re-deserted to the government army and taken up arms for Assad again.

Some freedom fighters! They weren’t given enough weapons, we are told. Now they’ll get more. And no doubt sell them – as they did the last lot. For it is a sad fact of war that whenever a gun crosses a border, it represents not loyalty but cash.

Syrian moderates aren t so moderate in Iraq - New Articles - The Independent

 

[Katzndogz]

I want to add this before I bail to go finish up my garden. I hope I don't come off as "basher" because I know I'm not a "blame America first" person.

But obviously our interference of late has completely destabalized the ME worse than ever before and instead of it being just a dog's breakfast we've gone and pushed it over the edge into the FUBAR'D category.

The most obvious tactic to rid the ME of IS would be to work with Assad.

But no. Obama is still blathering on about arming moderate rebels when there are none. All because he still wants to depose Assad.

It's crazy.

obama's crazy. Had it not been for his little personal vendetta against Assad there would never have been an Isis.

There really is only one way out. Humiliate obama. Work with Assad and the Russians to root out Isis. Of course this means the muslim brotherhood will have to go too.

 

[Katzndogz]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Why do so many of them come here for the very same laws and rights?

I can't blame the average Muslim on the street for looking at America's military behavior on their land and being angry.

Angry probably isn't a strong enough word.

At the same time, I wonder if there are enough moderate voices to put a dent in the further spread of this ideology.

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Glad you brought this up. There are millions of moderate Muslims with moderate voices. One has to be willing to listen to hear those voices though.

That's because those voices whisper. They don't want their heads cut off.

All of us against the infidel isn't just the tag line from an old muslim saying. It really means something. It means more to them than it does to you.

 

[tinydancer]

I want to add this before I bail to go finish up my garden. I hope I don't come off as "basher" because I know I'm not a "blame America first" person.

But obviously our interference of late has completely destabalized the ME worse than ever before and instead of it being just a dog's breakfast we've gone and pushed it over the edge into the FUBAR'D category.

The most obvious tactic to rid the ME of IS would be to work with Assad.

But no. Obama is still blathering on about arming moderate rebels when there are none. All because he still wants to depose Assad.

It's crazy.

obama's crazy. Had it not been for his little personal vendetta against Assad there would never have been an Isis.

There really is only one way out. Humiliate obama. Work with Assad and the Russians to root out Isis. Of course this means the muslim brotherhood will have to go too.

It appears we are stuck with Obama's obsession with regime change at all costs in Syria so the Muslim Brotherhood can have another kick at the can.

I don't think many people realize how deeply the links are between Washington and the MB in Syria. I think they woke up to the involvement in Egypt when it finally hit front page news that they were declared a terrorist organization again in Egypt.

But the MB connection in Syria has been hush hush in our news outlets.

 

[Old Rocks]

Actually, the guy is a one man recruiter for the ISIL cause.

The people of the Middle East are sick and tired of western intervention into their lands.

Over the last two decades, hundreds of thousands of muslims have been killed, constant invasions, bombings, dronings, puppet dictators installed and given weapons, sanctions, etc.

Now here comes group that says "F**K You" to the infidel secular western nations.

The average middle east muslim may not agree with their methods......but they applaud someone finally standing up for them........ the common man.

Fellow, the way things are going, if ISIS continues to gain territory, and military might, we will come to a point we will fight them as we fought WW2. Carpet bombing of all cities and production facilities.

And there will be no mercy shown. Infidel secular western nations, indeed. For the future of the religion of Islam, the muslims must not only reject the barbarity that ISIS is, but also join in on destroying this cancer.

 

[Old Rocks]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Now now. Even you have to realize that's not true. The people of the middle east certainly did have a thriving and dynamic culture. It just wasn't an Islamic culture. It wasn't an Islamic culture until the late first century, when Islam started murdering its way across the region and killing off the people that had the dynamic culture. The people that had thinkers, academics and scientists are long dead. Their bloodlines are dead. The people in the region today have no ancestral connection to the people of that time.

Did I mention only Islamic culture??.........Nope.

I just said that their cultures are thousands of years old. ......

That is correct. Cultures thousands of years old, and even today, just as in Christian culture, you can trace much of the beliefs in the current religion to those 'pagan' roots.

Right now, the mid-east is a barbaric backwater in the world culture. A place where you can see the barbarities and evils of the past thousands of years in living color.

 

[Sunni Man]

Right now, the mid-east is a barbaric backwater in the world culture. A place where you can see the barbarities and evils of the past thousands of years in living color.

And?? .....

 

[DigitalDrifter]

It's as if they want to draw us back in.
Sort of what I think Hamas does with the Israeli's. Bloody some noses, then when the full weight of the military responds, you take to social media and make them out to be the aggressors, the bad guys that re trying to take over your part of the world.

 

[dannyboys]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

The "Rights" you refer to are essentially HUMAN RIGHTS!!!!
Non-muslims are about humans having fundamental rights. You fucking creeps are concerned with taking away human rights. You creeps won't even allow a twelve year old girl to enjoy a natural healthy sex later in life. How fucking mentally ill is that? Just b/c your hero 'Dingle Dorf' got pissed off that he couldn't 'satisfy' a twelve year girl he commanded that in future ALL twelve year old girls must never enjoy sex in their futures.
You are living in a medieval fantasy world.
You will lose this coming world wide war b/c at the heart of your pathetic (cough) religion is pure evil. Evil never wins. Ask the fucking Nazis.

 

[Sunni Man]

So called "human rights" are relative......depending on a people's culture and social understanding of what those rights represent.

Fact......