A Couple Of "thoughts" On The Islamic State

[Jackson]

Actually, the guy is a one man recruiter for the ISIL cause.

The people of the Middle East are sick and tired of western intervention into their lands.

Over the last two decades, hundreds of thousands of muslims have been killed, constant invasions, bombings, dronings, puppet dictators installed and given weapons, sanctions, etc.

Now here comes group that says "F**K You" to the infidel secular western nations.

The average middle east muslim may not agree with their methods......but they applaud someone finally standing up for them........ the common man.

And maybe, just maybe the western nations may just say F*CK YOU back. BAM!!

Which could, in the long run, just make everything worse.

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Surely we know where the ISIS headquarters or training camps are. For every beheading, we take out 500 ISIS members minimum.

If I was a hostage, just waiting for my time for the beheading, I'd be praying for those bombings, hoping I would be in the mix. I'd rather go that way without my head cut off!

Yeah, I'm assuming that at some point we'll have enough intelligence in there and enough citizens willing to rat them out, so that we can find places where they gather like cockroaches.

Seems to me we need to get that kind of momentum, and that could tip the scales.

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Thirty thousand is hard to hide.

It's a helluva lot tougher when they don't wear uniforms, they use people as human shields, and you cannot tell by looking at anyone there who is on your side and who is not until they're shooting at you.

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The masks are a dead giveaway.

 

[deltex1]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

And they rejected those concepts and embraced killing each other instead...and flushed their culture down the toilet. They accepted western technology to get oil out of the ground...and accepted western dollars to make them rich...and now bitch about interference? That goat don't hunt.

 

[Toronado3800]

Just thinking out loud here...

... this "Jihadi John" guy apparently is the one who is beheading people. To what end, I wonder? Surely he knows the West is going to react, that what he's doing is pissing off and motivating a lot of people. Does he think that our military response can be defeated by 31,000 psychopaths?

... I wonder what the rest of ISIS thinks of him. I wonder if he's a loose cannon or if they agree with him. One guy with a video camera and internet access doesn't necessarily speak for all of them. He's inviting a shitload of trouble, and surely they know it.

... I also wonder if/when the people there turn against these animals. The first, and fairly easy, thing that could happen is they could rat out these guys when they have a chance. They can't beat them with guns obviously, but the people can be used for intelligence.

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Trying to imagine their pov.

Folks have to feel pretty helpless. They can also be a dedicated bunch. While our boys go earn congressional medals of honor and just maybe live through it, theirs can be talked into blowing themselves up as human bombs. SO, its not that difficult to talk some into joining a military operation like ISIS.

The area has been messed up for awhile. Just like the Catholic Church and Europe's dark ages the Middle East fell behind several hundred years after Islam spread about and unlike Europe a foreign power or two came in and carved the region up. Now they have oil so ppl care more than Africa and boy, think we hear that story about the CIA placing the a ruler in Iran a lifetime ago? Yup. Instead of being on the message board debating dems and repubs they talk about that.

So they fight back as best they can. ISIS is probably going to cost the West billions which I consider a victory for them. Perhaps in 20 years ISIS II will catch a more broke and war weary west and form another calipate or whatever. If they ever get the female half of their population to be productive we might have economic problems with the Chinese and the Middle East. Until then they'll either have to hope to figure out the bomb before we evolve from our need for oil or that us and China nuke eachother.

 

[Mac1958]

The masks are a dead giveaway.

True!

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[Jackson]

Do yo

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Why do so many of them come here for the very same laws and rights?

I can't blame the average Muslim on the street for looking at America's military behavior on their land and being angry.

Angry probably isn't a strong enough word.

At the same time, I wonder if there are enough moderate voices to put a dent in the further spread of this ideology.

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Glad you brought this up. There are millions of moderate Muslims with moderate voices. One has to be willing to listen to hear those voices though.

Do you hear those Moderate Muslims? I don't. Others don't either. Matter of fact, they said their silence is deafening.

 

[Katzndogz]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Now now. Even you have to realize that's not true. The people of the middle east certainly did have a thriving and dynamic culture. It just wasn't an Islamic culture. It wasn't an Islamic culture until the late first century, when Islam started murdering its way across the region and killing off the people that had the dynamic culture. The people that had thinkers, academics and scientists are long dead. Their bloodlines are dead. The people in the region today have no ancestral connection to the people of that time.

 

[Katzndogz]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Why do so many of them come here for the very same laws and rights?

They don't. They do not come here to enjoy those laws and rights. They come here to change our laws and rights. In Europe they are succeeding.

 

[tinydancer]

We can chat over the beheading this morning over a hot coffee and from afar.

But somewhere in the world today, a drone will strike and wipe out a wedding party or family who has maybe just maybe has an uncle who maybe just maybe has a tie to a radical Islamic group.

If we can't understand why Mohammed and Mary Six Pack hate our guts with a passion we're bloody well daft.

I doubt priority targets would be weddings when ISIS headquarters and training camps are possibly holding the leaders and several hundred ISIS members. They are #1.

But Jackson, with all due respect you are talking about this narrow vision of IS now. IS is surrounded in Raqaa by thousands of civilians. It is the heart of the Caliphate.

I'm talking about what we have been doing with our drone strikes on a day to day for years now.

I've been researching the drone strikes. Aye carumba! When the US does the total of "militants" killed in a strike they base their figures of the dead so called jihadist on any male that is of military age.

That's how they justify their "success" numbers.

 

[Jackson]

I can't blame the average Muslim on the street for looking at America's military behavior on their land and being angry.

Angry probably isn't a strong enough word.

At the same time, I wonder if there are enough moderate voices to put a dent in the further spread of this ideology.

.

You mean the building we did in Iraq or the bringing of freedom and their first elections. Not sure which you are talking about. Granted we never should have gone in there in the first place, but we lost many american men giving them what they never had before. It was up to them to keep it.

Perhaps they would have rather just kept Saddam Hussein. I don't understand Muslims and their strange laws. I prefer America. Which makes me wonder, why do they come here?

We continually invade and occupy their land without an invitation.

We continually meddle in their political affairs.

Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have died as the result of wars in which we have been a participant.

Would we like it if others did that to us, regardless of their reason?

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Did we go into Afghanistan without provocation?

Iraq, granted was a mistake and we paid dearly with lives, $$$ and manpower for that mistake.

So where else did we go?

 

[Jackson]

We can chat over the beheading this morning over a hot coffee and from afar.

But somewhere in the world today, a drone will strike and wipe out a wedding party or family who has maybe just maybe has an uncle who maybe just maybe has a tie to a radical Islamic group.

If we can't understand why Mohammed and Mary Six Pack hate our guts with a passion we're bloody well daft.

For 2 decades we have been wrecking military havoc throughout the middle east and the situation has only gotten worse.

You would think by now our government leaders would finally wake up and say, "Hey guys, I think we need a new strategy?" ..

and Obama is the one to think it up. Probably on the 13th hole.

 

[Jackson]

We can chat over the beheading this morning over a hot coffee and from afar.

But somewhere in the world today, a drone will strike and wipe out a wedding party or family who has maybe just maybe has an uncle who maybe just maybe has a tie to a radical Islamic group.

If we can't understand why Mohammed and Mary Six Pack hate our guts with a passion we're bloody well daft.

I doubt priority targets would be weddings when ISIS headquarters and training camps are possibly holding the leaders and several hundred ISIS members. They are #1.

I've been researching the drone strikes. Aye carumba! When the US does the total of "militants" killed in a strike they base their figures of the dead so called jihadist on any male that is of military age.

That's how they justify their "success" numbers.

All I can say, is that they don't likely look up weddings and target those. As a practical matter they are looking for more lucrative targets. There may have been a wedding where a jihadist was getting married and jihadists were attending the wedding.

 

[Jackson]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Why do so many of them come here for the very same laws and rights?

They don't. They do not come here to enjoy those laws and rights. They come here to change our laws and rights. In Europe they are succeeding.

Now isn't that swell! The Muslims are coming here not to be part of America and enjoy what we have, but to change it to what they want! Can you give them a message to just don't bother and go back home?

 

[Sunni Man]

The people of the middle east already had a dynamic culture in place a thousand's of years before the West came along and told them they needed; democracy, women's rights, secular government, gay rights, etc.

Which were all foreign concepts being forced upon them at the end of a gun barrel. ...

Now now. Even you have to realize that's not true. The people of the middle east certainly did have a thriving and dynamic culture. It just wasn't an Islamic culture. It wasn't an Islamic culture until the late first century, when Islam started murdering its way across the region and killing off the people that had the dynamic culture. The people that had thinkers, academics and scientists are long dead. Their bloodlines are dead. The people in the region today have no ancestral connection to the people of that time.

Did I mention only Islamic culture??.........Nope.

I just said that their cultures are thousands of years old. ......

 

[Mac1958]

Did we go into Afghanistan without provocation?

Iraq, granted was a mistake and we paid dearly with lives, $$$ and manpower for that mistake.

So where else did we go?

Everywhere.

You don't think they know we've had special forces and operatives and CIA crawling all over the Middle East for decades?

They've seen us install and/or back leaders like Saddam, and then later come back to kill them or support rebels against them.

The average Muslim on the street knows that we bring bombs and death and destruction, and we often do it behind the scenes.

Imagine seeing a Russian or Chinese tank tooling down the road in Dallas or Miami or Chicago or St. Louis.

.

 

[Mac1958]

Crap, double post, again.

 

[tinydancer]

This is more than a military issue. It's our mind set in the west that we have to control freaking everything and everybody.

The past has been bad enough, but just take a look at the here and now.

Egyptians were tooling along doing pretty good under Mubarak and BAM one day there's a protest against him and the west jumps in and succeeds in getting him overthrown.

And we know the rest of that story. Thank heavens the Egyptians came to their senses and threw out Morsi and the MB.

Libya is a complete dogs breakfast now run by militias. We just had to go and bomb the shit out of the country killing willy nilly under the guise of protecting the citizens from Gaddafi.

Syria. Obama/Harper/Cameron and others have a hard on for Assad and have been working fervently to depose him. AND by doing so has given the world the most powerful and wealthiest terror group on the planet.

Assad by any standard of so called dictators is an extremely well educated moderate who has the loyalty of not only Syrian Christians but the Kurds as well. Kurds in Syria have been fighting along side of Assad not against him.

The so called coalition we support is based out of Qatar. They're a joke.

If it will give Muslims any comfort, we had to go and fuck up the Ukraine too by backing a coup that overthrew a duly elected President and his party.

Now there's a civil war in the Ukraine as well.

 

[Jackson]

Crap, double post, again.

 

[Sunni Man]

They accepted western technology to get oil out of the ground...and accepted western dollars to make them rich...and now bitch about interference? That goat don't hunt.

The western nations installed puppet dictators in order to get lucrative oil contracts.

Then they gave these brutal dictators massive amounts of weapons to keep their citizens in line.

By and large the average citizen of those nations never saw any of the western oil money.

 

[Katzndogz]

There was never a time that the middle east didn't have brutal dictators. We see what happens when the middle east doesn't have brutal dictators. The people start brutalizing one another.

 

[EconChick]

Actually, the guy is a one man recruiter for the ISIL cause.

The people of the Middle East are sick and tired of western intervention into their lands.

Over the last two decades, hundreds of thousands of muslims have been killed, constant invasions, bombings, dronings, puppet dictators installed and given weapons, sanctions, etc.

Now here comes group that says "F**K You" to the infidel secular western nations.

The average middle east muslim may not agree with their methods......but they applaud someone finally standing up for them........ the common man.

And maybe, just maybe the western nations may just say F*CK YOU back. BAM!!

Which could, in the long run, just make everything worse.

.

Surely we know where the ISIS headquarters or training camps are. For every beheading, we take out 500 ISIS members minimum.

If I was a hostage, just waiting for my time for the beheading, I'd be praying for those bombings, hoping I would be in the mix. I'd rather go that way without my head cut off!

Yeah, I'm assuming that at some point we'll have enough intelligence in there and enough citizens willing to rat them out, so that we can find places where they gather like cockroaches.

Seems to me we need to get that kind of momentum, and that could tip the scales.

.

Having worked at the highest levels of intelligence, it's always fun listening to someone so massively uninformed as you talk about intelligence.


ETA: Or talk about Iraq or the Middle East for that matter.