A couple of stupid Myths

[Powerman]

In LAUSD, which may be the largest school district in the world, they have gay pride month. It certainly goes far beyond what you describe. They are forcing the gay lifestyle on kids and brainwashing them. Me, I would prefer a document that says Murder, Lying, Stealing, Adultery is bad.

You can't force a gay lifestyle on someone. That's just silly.

 

[Powerman]

Yakety Yakety Yak. Atheists love to "debate" our faith. Which is absurd as a premise, since faith by definition is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

The bottom line is, if we (Christians) are wrong, we are naive people who tried to live a moral life, and go nowhere when we die.


If the Atheists are wrong, well, let's just say it was a very big mistake they will have forever to regret.

"Which is absurd as a premise, since faith by definition is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."

You've got that right. Faith definitely requires at least a few drops of lunacy.


But to address your other comments....most Christians do live a moral life and that's great but most atheists also live a moral life. Most go by some of the same Christian practices. Other than the fact that I'm not a Christian I would probably say I live as Christian as a life as any. And I'm not worried about hell because I've found a loop hole in it that makes God accountable for my actions.

 

[Trillian]

I think that these myths hold about as much ground as the myth that all English people speak like the Queen and drink Tea whilst eating crumpets.

Human beings are often Judgmental, especially about topics that go against their beliefs.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I don't buy into fear tactics. But it's nice to see that you do. There are plenty of wicked people right now and I don't see God doing anything about it. Wicked is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not exactly sure how you can just say "Oh those people were wicked so it's ok for God to ask Saul to commit genodice on them." You really lose a lot of credibility when you try to rationalize genocide. I'm glad the bible is fiction because if it were true God would have probably smited me already.

I have not lost one bit of credibility except in your opinion which doesn't amount to a hill of beans. You cannot even begin to support your position in a logical or rational manner.

If you don't fear God then you must not buy into the concept of good and evil either. Too many people think that God is only a god of love and good things. However he is also a god of justice and punishment. When you die you will meet your Maker and you will be judged according to whether you have pleased Him or not. You were not given the gift of self will for nothing.

But I guess being an atheist, it doesn't matter to you what people do in this life as long as they don't hurt you personally because when you die it's all over anyway. Why should atheists care whether they are wicked or not? I'm sure that belief gives you great lattitude to pursue whatever liberal, hedonistic lifestyle you choose to follow between your "good" days. I'm sure that's a great motivation for becoming an atheist and forgetting about trying to understand God, the Bible, and your religion. It's much easier to blame God and denounce Him and take pride in yourself for thinking yourself so smart.

~You are only a heartbeat away from eternity~

 

[MissileMan]

But I guess being an atheist, it doesn't matter to you what people do in this life as long as they don't hurt you personally because when you die it's all over anyway. Why should atheists care whether they are wicked or not? I'm sure that belief gives you great lattitude to pursue whatever liberal, hedonistic lifestyle you choose to follow between your "good" days. I'm sure that's a great motivation for becoming an atheist and forgetting about trying to understand God, the Bible, and your religion. It's much easier to blame God and denounce Him and take pride in yourself for thinking yourself so smart.

I'd like to know where you get the idea that all atheists are evil, hedonistic, liberals. You can't possibly believe that atheists are responsible for all the crime, drug abuse, porn, rape, child abuse, etc. There simply aren't enough of us here in the U.S. to account for it all.

 

[Powerman]

I'd like to know where you get the idea that all atheists are evil, hedonistic, liberals. You can't possibly believe that atheists are responsible for all the crime, drug abuse, porn, rape, child abuse, etc. There simply aren't enough of us here in the U.S. to account for it all.

Yeah no shit. I'm actually pretty conservative with a lot of things. I voted for Bush. I'm far from a liberal.

And you said that God was a god of justice. You think that killing children is just? I don't think it is. Apparently God doesn't even live up to the standards of the Geneva convention. Maybe Satan was right to rebel against such a fucking lunatic.

 

[MissileMan]

And you said that God was a god of justice. You think that killing children is just? I don't think it is. Apparently God doesn't even live up to the standards of the Geneva convention. Maybe Satan was right to rebel against such a fucking lunatic.

Wasn't me that said that. I don't believe in God, Satan, Heaven or Hell.

 

[Powerman]

Wasn't me that said that. I don't believe in God, Satan, Heaven or Hell.

Yeah I know I quoted you. The other comments were intended for screaming guy.

 

[mattskramer]

As I post already, it was referring to LEGAL rights. As for women and blacks not having equal legal rights at the time, those who wanted to create them did not have enough support at the time, the worldwide cultural norms wouldnt allow it. We have corrected those mistakes. Although we are all born with equal legal rights in Gods eyes, people do have the ability to remove them. IT IS WRONG to do so, which is what this document is declaring.

What do you mean by the statement that they did not have enough support at the time to create LEGAL rights for women and Blacks - political support? If God created those equal rights for people, who are we to take them away? I could see the founding fathers explain it: Sorry fellas, I know we said that you have legal rights by God but due to political and/or economic risk, we just have to take God's gift away from you for a few decades. How was it that cultural norms would not have allowed it - why couldn't the founders have freed the slaves and allowed women to vote? I think that it was because they would have lost much financial and political power. We corrected the mistake of not practicing what we preached. Could the mistake have been in the sermon?

No, lets not restrict it. Social change does not happen overnight. It took a long time, but we have arrived at equal rights. So what if SOME of the authors did not practice what they preached, it doesnt change the truth or power of the words.

A drug addict is near death and tells me, dont ever start. Because he is not practicing what he preaches, should I not listen to him?

IF those are your best arguements, might as well give it up now. Our country is doomed if it fails to continue following this document.

Besides, it is THIS DOCUMENT that led to the current situation, where all people do have equal rights, as much as is possible within an imperfect world because of the greed of people.

For the sake of giving people something to rally around in their fight against Great Britain, it may have been necessary to state that the Legal rights are given by your CREATOR (while not actually giving such rights to women and Blacks). The Revolutionary War is over America consists of many Atheists. Such a statement referencing a CREATOR is not necessary. At worst, it is an offense against those who do not believe that such a Creator exists. You "doom and gloom" prediction probably won't happen. Throughout US history people thought that our country would cease to exist if "this or that" were allowed or disallowed. America continues to exist. Removing the reference to a Creator within the "Declaration of Independence" will not doom America either.

 

[MissileMan]

Throughout US history people thought that our country would cease to exist if "this or that" were allowed or disallowed. America continues to exist. Removing the reference to a Creator within the "Declaration of Independence" will not doom America either.

Why in hell would someone be talking about removing anything from the DoI. It's history. I haven't heard of anyone suggesting altering it. I did read about some whackos who wanted it removed from classrooms, but that's a different matter, and not one I support.

 

[mattskramer]

Why in hell would someone be talking about removing anything from the DoI. It's history. I haven't heard of anyone suggesting altering it. I did read about some whackos who wanted it removed from classrooms, but that's a different matter, and not one I support.

Yeah. You might be right. Perhaps I'm going to extremes. I suppose that if it is understood that the DoI is an old historic document (correct or incorrect in claiming the existence of a creator) irrelevant to today's circumstances, we should let it be. After all, the Constitution and not the DoI, governs America.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I'd like to know where you get the idea that all atheists are evil, hedonistic, liberals. You can't possibly believe that atheists are responsible for all the crime, drug abuse, porn, rape, child abuse, etc. There simply aren't enough of us here in the U.S. to account for it all.

Did I say that all atheists were evil and hedonistic? No. I'm sure many live by whatever code they dream up to fit themselves and not all are that bad. However I believe that most tend to be self-centered and hedonistic in their approach to life. What else would they live for since there is no enjoyable afterlife for them? Many Christians are also self-centered and hedonistic and yes some are even evil, however those that truly follow their religion are orientated otherwise and attempt to live good lives because they want to make it to heaven.

That is the major difference. Since atheists don't believe in God or an afterlife, they have no real motivation for living a good life other than to please themselves. Evil as a concept does not matter since atheists believe there is no real consequence to one's actions unless one is caught and punished by others during his lifetime. Why should an atheist even have a conscience?

In fact, that also points out the absurdity of powerman's claims about God being a bad guy. Since evil is a relative concept to an atheist, he is in no postition to judge another, especially God.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

What do you mean by the statement that they did not have enough support at the time to create LEGAL rights for women and Blacks - political support? If God created those equal rights for people, who are we to take them away? I could see the founding fathers explain it: Sorry fellas, I know we said that you have legal rights by God but due to political and/or economic risk, we just have to take God's gift away from you for a few decades. How was it that cultural norms would not have allowed it - why couldn't the founders have freed the slaves and allowed women to vote? I think that it was because they would have lost much financial and political power. We corrected the mistake of not practicing what we preached. Could the mistake have been in the sermon?



For the sake of giving people something to rally around in their fight against Great Britain, it may have been necessary to state that the Legal rights are given by your CREATOR (while not actually giving such rights to women and Blacks). The Revolutionary War is over America consists of many Atheists. Such a statement referencing a CREATOR is not necessary. At worst, it is an offense against those who do not believe that such a Creator exists. You "doom and gloom" prediction probably won't happen. Throughout US history people thought that our country would cease to exist if "this or that" were allowed or disallowed. America continues to exist. Removing the reference to a Creator within the "Declaration of Independence" will not doom America either.

Yes, political rights.
People strip other people of rights all the time. The founding fathers were saying that behavior is wrong and they wanted to create a nation where that wouldnt happen. But the changes needed to create it completely were simply too big, society at large was not ready for it.

Yes, actually they did have to basically say, "sorry, not for now" , they had to compromise with those who didnt want slavery to ever end, or women to ever get rights.

Just because someone may have said, "if we dont find out what is happening in area 51, the US is doomed" and were wrong, doesnt mean that changing the basic fundamental building block of our entire legal code wouldnt cause our collapse. Besides that, for the nation to collapse, it takes hundreds of years, historians fully acknowledged the fall of the Roman empire started hundreds of years prior to its actual break up.

 

[Powerman]

That is the major difference. Since atheists don't believe in God or an afterlife, they have no real motivation for living a good life other than to please themselves. Evil as a concept does not matter since atheists believe there is no real consequence to one's actions unless one is caught and punished by others during his lifetime. Why should an atheist even have a conscience?

In fact, that also points out the absurdity of powerman's claims about God being a bad guy. Since evil is a relative concept to an atheist, he is in no postition to judge another, especially God.

I believe that intiuitive logic tells you what is right or wrong. Different people have different intuitive logic but most people can agree that things that harm other people are wrong. For instance I don't think masturbating is wrong. Punching someone in the face for no good reason is wrong. I don't need a bible or any other book of faith to tell me if things are right or not.

And what do you mean atheists have no motivation to live a good life? That is an ignorant statement. I have self respect. I don't need a God that cares if I'm circumcised or not to have self respect. Everyone has a conscience. Your views on atheists in general are very uneducated. Did you know that Pat Tillman was an atheist? I don't know too many millionaire Christians that would sacrifice themselves in combat. I would be willing to bet he is one of the only people with that type of financial security that has ever done such a thing in modern times. Thomas Edison was also an atheist and you can bet that your life wouldn't be the same with out him. Atheists aren't all evil and immoral like you might like to think. Believe it or not you don't have to have faith in something for which there is no proof to have good morals.

 

[Nuc]

I have not lost one bit of credibility except in your opinion which doesn't amount to a hill of beans. You cannot even begin to support your position in a logical or rational manner.

If you don't fear God then you must not buy into the concept of good and evil either. Too many people think that God is only a god of love and good things. However he is also a god of justice and punishment. When you die you will meet your Maker and you will be judged according to whether you have pleased Him or not. You were not given the gift of self will for nothing.

But I guess being an atheist, it doesn't matter to you what people do in this life as long as they don't hurt you personally because when you die it's all over anyway. Why should atheists care whether they are wicked or not? I'm sure that belief gives you great lattitude to pursue whatever liberal, hedonistic lifestyle you choose to follow between your "good" days. I'm sure that's a great motivation for becoming an atheist and forgetting about trying to understand God, the Bible, and your religion. It's much easier to blame God and denounce Him and take pride in yourself for thinking yourself so smart.

~You are only a heartbeat away from eternity~

Eagle, just as there are numerous kinds of Christians, there are different types of atheists. Buddhism is an atheistic religion, yet it stresses good behavior and holds people accountable for their acts through the law of karma.

On the other hand Islam is an extremely theistic religion to the point that they want the world to become one huge theocracy. Look at the wonderful results.

Would you rather be stuck on an island with a bunch of atheistic Buddhists or a bunch of god fearing Muslims?

 

[Shattered]

But I guess being an atheist, it doesn't matter to you what people do in this life as long as they don't hurt you personally because when you die it's all over anyway. Why should atheists care whether they are wicked or not? I'm sure that belief gives you great lattitude to pursue whatever liberal, hedonistic lifestyle you choose to follow between your "good" days. I'm sure that's a great motivation for becoming an atheist and forgetting about trying to understand God, the Bible, and your religion. It's much easier to blame God and denounce Him and take pride in yourself for thinking yourself so smart.

~You are only a heartbeat away from eternity~

Wow.. How many athiests do you know? There's that Christian tolerance and acceptance of others shining through. Did your God teach you to judge people like that?

So, every person that doesn't believe in (a) God is a liberal, hedonistic dumbfuck not worthy of anything more than your contempt?

How about those of us that just choose to take responsibility for our own lives, and how we live them? With an attitude like that, you're probably going to end up missing out on meeting a lot of good people in your life..

BTW - The liberal label doesn't apply here, so save it for someone else.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

As I said before and I will repeat in response to the upset responses, I do not believe that all atheists are bad people. Some have set ethical standards they live by. However, I look around and see that most of the people who are agnostics or materialists or some form of atheist all tend to belong to the liberal political spectrum which supports or at least tolerates what I consider to be rampant moral degeneracy. All I see is a lot of moral relativism because basically anything goes. Nobody is supposed to institutionalize morality according to atheists and their various offshoots. Some claim that anything is OK as long as it does not hurt anybody but in actuality I see more and more people being hurt despite peoples great "intuitive logic" which in fact becomes derailed without a code to live by. In fact the entire world looks upon America as a very dangerous place. Even Madonna, the ultimate material girl, claims that it is not the place to raise her children and moved to England plus reverted to religion. It seems that moral relativism leads many people to cross the line and hurt others because, in fact, there is no line in atheism.

 

[Powerman]

". However, I look around and see that most of the people who are agnostics or materialists or some form of atheist all tend to belong to the liberal political spectrum which supports or at least tolerates what I consider to be rampant moral degeneracy."

Somehow I get the feeling that you dont' "see" all of these people and have just made an errouneous assumption. I'm far from being liberal and nucular doesn't seem to be all left either. Neither of us seem to be morally deprived. Maybe you should learn some tolerance.

 

[no1tovote4]

Maybe you should learn some tolerance.

Right back at'ya little man.

Tolerance allows others their own beliefs, the only one proselytizing on this site at this moment is you. Everybody must take your belief as their own or they are "stupid" people that believe in "myths". By selecting the language you make a message of intolerance of others beliefs that is astounding in its all-encompassing judgment of all others that believe differently than you.

I find it repellent.

 

[dmp]

Right back at'ya little man.

Tolerance allows others their own beliefs, the only one proselytizing on this site at this moment is you. Everybody must take your belief as their own or they are "stupid" people that believe in "myths". By selecting the language you make a message of intolerance of others beliefs that is astounding in its all-encompassing judgment of all others that believe differently than you.

I find it repellent.

If I could rep you again, I would. Excellent...to the Point. Absolute Truth.