A Conservative Wakes Up

[Liability]

The pre-conditions set forth in the OP's "thought experiment" are too absurd to make the effort useful.

"Services are free."

Uhm huh. Free lunch. Who pays? How?

The system invisioned cannot work. Absolutely impossible.

Lord! Not one conservative was able to give a coherent answer, and they still wonder why they are politcal failures?

Liability, the answer is given in the TE and there are places today that are close to the premise.

Once more, this is a thought exercise, what does the woman do and why?

Good Lord, you liberoidals are idiots.

"Thought experiments" premised on the impossible are of less than no utility.

If Lincoln had not been assassinated, based on a string of absolutely valid logic, ANY conclusion can validly follow.

If there is no possible way to achieve "absolute equality," then premising a "thought experiment" on it is just as meaningless as a premise which posits that an historical fact did not occur.

 

[Ringel05]

Interesting the conservatives are totally stumped.

Do any of you even know what a thought experiment is? It is an intuition pump, a scenario or vignette that creates thought. Both nations I mention exist today in slightly moderated form. This has nothing to do with feelings, except that humans have feeling, so I guess all things are then feelings.

But the question holds and no one seems capbable of an answer - no guts or no thought? Does she stay or go. Please don't reply with more diversions, if you don't have the brains or balls to give an answer, go home.

It's impossible to say what she would do. Circumstances and situations shape most peoples decisions more frequently than personal tenets. Of course if she retained her personal standards she would have difficulty fitting in to the new society in the first place and would leap at the opportunity to move back to that which is familiar and desirable. If her doctrine was more fluid then she would stay and accept her new life under the new system. By wanting to leave would actually catagorize her as liberal, by staying as conservative since the system in place is status quo for it's people.

 

[Liability]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/88774-a-liberal-continues-to-sleep.html

 

[JBeukema]

But the question holds and no one seems capbable of an answer

Did you not see my post?

 

[Si modo]

Interesting the conservatives are totally stumped.

Do any of you even know what a thought experiment is? It is an intuition pump, a scenario or vignette that creates thought. Both nations I mention exist today in slightly moderated form. This has nothing to do with feelings, except that humans have feeling, so I guess all things are then feelings.

But the question holds and no one seems capbable of an answer - no guts or no thought? Does she stay or go. Please don't reply with more diversions, if you don't have the brains or balls to give an answer, go home.

She goes. As a poltical conservative informed on the dangers of authoritarian forced utopias, she knows the current society is doomed to fail and she wants no part of it. Or, she stays as she loves the country where she was born, she organizes with others to bring back a constitutional republic she loved and which has a proven track record.

 

[Oddball]

The pre-conditions set forth in the OP's "thought experiment" are too absurd to make the effort useful.

"Services are free."

Uhm huh. Free lunch. Who pays? How?

The system invisioned cannot work. Absolutely impossible.

Lord! Not one conservative was able to give a coherent answer, and they still wonder why they are politcal failures?

Liability, the answer is given in the TE and there are places today that are close to the premise.

Once more, this is a thought exercise, what does the woman do and why?

Good Lord, you liberoidals are idiots.

"Thought experiments" premised on the impossible are of less than no utility.

If Lincoln had not been assassinated, based on a string of absolutely valid logic, ANY conclusion can validly follow.

If there is no possible way to achieve "absolute equality," then premising a "thought experiment" on it is just as meaningless as a premise which posits that an historical fact did not occur.

IF worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't fuck with them.

 

[Oddball]

Interesting the conservatives are totally stumped.

Do any of you even know what a thought experiment is? It is an intuition pump, a scenario or vignette that creates thought. Both nations I mention exist today in slightly moderated form. This has nothing to do with feelings, except that humans have feeling, so I guess all things are then feelings.

But the question holds and no one seems capbable of an answer - no guts or no thought? Does she stay or go. Please don't reply with more diversions, if you don't have the brains or balls to give an answer, go home.

She rejects the premise.

 

[JBeukema]

I love how the OP whines that 'noone's answered', yet my answers go unnoticed

 

[midcan5]

But the question holds and no one seems capbable of an answer

Did you not see my post?

She becomes a 'conservative' who seeks to protect her new status quo and wants to send the army to 'enlighten' the backwards neighbor.

You argued with the premise which is a given.

So she stays but wants to enlighten the more divided, unequal nation?

 

[midcan5]

She goes. As a poltical conservative informed on the dangers of authoritarian forced utopias, she knows the current society is doomed to fail and she wants no part of it. Or, she stays as she loves the country where she was born, she organizes with others to bring back a constitutional republic she loved and which has a proven track record.

Thanks for the answer.

There is nothing authoritarian about the society she wakes up in, their value system just differs. Are there problems, of course. There is no force other than normal civility.

I liked your answer because it assumes a key reactionary idea, that life in this society can only go down hill. Why would that be?

Why too would she go back to the republic? Is it the just the idea or does she not mind the inequality or what?

Anyone can answer, but glad someone stepped up.

 

[Si modo]

She goes. As a poltical conservative informed on the dangers of authoritarian forced utopias, she knows the current society is doomed to fail and she wants no part of it. Or, she stays as she loves the country where she was born, she organizes with others to bring back a constitutional republic she loved and which has a proven track record.

Thanks for the answer.

There is nothing authoritarian about the society she wakes up in, their value system just differs. Are there problems, of course. There is no force other than normal civility.

I liked your answer because it assumes a key reactionary idea, that life in this society can only go down hill. Why would that be? ....

Your assumption about what I think is wrong.

.... Why too would she go back to the republic? Is it the just the idea or does she not mind the inequality or what? ....

She knows the idiots telling her that this is natural are wrong in the head (drugs, lying, delusional, lobotomies, etc.). Upon realizing that, she works harder to find those who have a grasp on reality to see if a revolution is possible. She swore an oath to the Constitution and being the honorable woman that she is, she takes that seriously. If this still fails her, plan B will be to flee, organize there, and return to take back her country and return it to the constitutional republic.

.... Anyone can answer, but glad someone stepped up.

My pleasure.

 

[garyd]

midcan the only one here that is stumped is you. There is not now nor has there ever been a society in which everything is free. Someone -usually everyone - pays in one way or the other. You pay in terms of diminished quality, quantity or both. You pay in terms of diminished opportunities and freedom. You may not see it but it is there.

Freedom isn't all neat and tidy. It never has been and it never will be. You can never be fully free to succeed if you are also not fully free to fail. You cannot lessen the impact of failure without also diminishing the impact of success.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

A Librul Wakes up....yeah, I know, forget it, it's too freaking unbelievable ....

 

[The T]

She goes. As a poltical conservative informed on the dangers of authoritarian forced utopias, she knows the current society is doomed to fail and she wants no part of it. Or, she stays as she loves the country where she was born, she organizes with others to bring back a constitutional republic she loved and which has a proven track record.

Thanks for the answer.

There is nothing authoritarian about the society she wakes up in, their value system just differs. Are there problems, of course. There is no force other than normal civility.

I liked your answer because it assumes a key reactionary idea, that life in this society can only go down hill. Why would that be? ....

Your assumption about what I think is wrong.

.... Why too would she go back to the republic? Is it the just the idea or does she not mind the inequality or what? ....

She knows the idiots telling her that this is natural are wrong in the head (drugs, lying, delusional, lobotomies, etc.). Upon realizing that, she works harder to find those who have a grasp on reality to see if a revolution is possible. She swore an oath to the Constitution and being the honorable woman that she is, she takes that seriously. If this still fails her, plan B will be to flee, organize there, and return to take back her country and return it to the constitutional republic.

.... Anyone can answer, but glad someone stepped up.

My pleasure.

Nice answer. I think in this scenario, the person in question has instilled values, principles. Why would anyone give up what they know to be correct just because their surroundings have changed? (And I mean society in this scenario).

I see it as what appears to be going on right now in this country. Just because everyone is doing something because it is dictated doesn't mean it is correct, and nor should anyone with contrary principles give up what they know to be true.

You have to be true to yourself, and that's what matters.

 

[JBeukema]

She goes. As a poltical conservative informed on the dangers of authoritarian forced utopias, she knows the current society is doomed to fail and she wants no part of it. Or, she stays as she loves the country where she was born, she organizes with others to bring back a constitutional republic she loved and which has a proven track record.

Thanks for the answer.

There is nothing authoritarian about the society she wakes up in

Really? Who enforces this equality in this system where it's impossible to become significantly more wealthy than your neighbor?

My questions about who the fuck pays for the stipends was never answered, either

or is the OP too stupid to realize that money has to come from somewhere?

 

[midcan5]

It's impossible to say what she would do. Circumstances and situations shape most peoples decisions more frequently than personal tenets. Of course if she retained her personal standards she would have difficulty fitting in to the new society in the first place and would leap at the opportunity to move back to that which is familiar and desirable. If her doctrine was more fluid then she would stay and accept her new life under the new system. By wanting to leave would actually catagorize her as liberal, by staying as conservative since the system in place is status quo for it's people.

While a bit off topic, excellent reply. I missed it earlier but you touch on the key points. Since it is only a thought exercise, you can then say she would stay being a conservative. You actually beat me to the punch as that was one of my follow up scenarios. And a liberal may leave if they were too idealistic - but I asked first. Good answer. I have to hit the road but will be back later to see if there are any other good replies.

 

[Liability]

* * * * I have to hit the road but will be back later to see if there are any other good replies.

Not that midcan5 could recognize the difference between a good answer and a bad one.

 

[garyd]

Or. apprently reality and fiction.

 

[Maple]

For Discussion - Thought Experiment #1

A few may be familiar with my nutshells, in them I tried to isolate the characteristics of a particular ideology. This time you decide, but remember this is a thought experiment and the premise is not debatable. (Try to stay away from slogan answers.)

One day a conservative wakes up from a coma in a world unlike her past world. In this world equality trumps personal freedom. The political structure could be defined as a constitutional cooperative in which decisions are made democratically and an elected court settled issues that any average citizen or minority group could disagree on.

The overall philosophical Weltanschauung means no one is super rich and no one poor. The society varies but it excludes extremes. All receive a stipend, so all live securely. All fundamental services are free, these include transportation, education, and healthcare. Work is private, state, and federal but all work is supportive of the society and not just the person or corporation, above average profits are returned to the society. The business person, entrepreneur, artist, does enjoy prestige and a higher standard of living.

The conservatives finds this odd and uncharacteristic but soon grows accustom to the society, she receives a stipend, finishes her education, and finds work in a private industry.

One day the conservative discovers there is another nation in which personal freedom trumps equality. In this place extremes of all kinds exist and government and law exist to defend or to protect power. This nation is basically considered a libertarian capitalistic republic. In this society no stipend system exists and no service is free. While the nations are isolated from each other, each feels, and their media supports their political structure as the best political structure. Movement between nations is possible as both at a base level respect personal freedom.

What does the conservative do and why? Does she stay or leave for a nation that allows more economic freedoms, more profit, and is similar to her core ideological position up to her coma? Or does she change and stay, why?

Sounds like heaven to me, but then again you guys don'e belive in heaven.

 

[Mister T]

Who pays for all that stuff. Does money rain from the sky? Where do these stipends come from?