86% Of Swiss Glaciers Were Retreating In The Year 1900

[daveman]

86% Of Swiss Glaciers Were Retreating In The Year 1900

CO2 was below 300 PPM in 1900, and 86% of Swiss glaciers were retreating. Hansen says that we can stop glacial retreat by returning to 350 PPM, which is a number he pulled out from where the sun never shines.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Er, just as predicted by the AGW models

Yeah

Sure

 

[Old Rocks]

Well now, Dave boy, why don't you just link to where Dr. James Hansen said that? Or be shown to be a liar.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, the glaciers were melting in 1900, as the graph shows. Now they are melting even faster.

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Swiss glaciers 'in full retreat'

Swiss glaciers are melting away at an accelerating rate and many will vanish this century if climate projections are correct, two new studies suggest.

One assessment found that some 10 cubic km of ice have been lost from 1,500 glaciers over the past nine years.

The other study, based on a sample of 30 representative glaciers, indicates the group's members are now losing a metre of thickness every year.

Both pieces of work come out of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.

"The trend is negative, but what we see is that the trend is also steepening," said Matthias Huss from the Zurich university's Laboratory of Hydraulics, Hydrology and Glaciology

Now there is no way that we will prevent the melting of most of the glaciers in the world. That is already in the pipe with amount of GHGs we have in the atmosphere right now. What we might prevent is the emission of the GHGs stored in the methane clathrates in the permafrost and ocean. If these let go, the game is over. No matter what we do, we will just be along for the ride. And this is what I expect to happen, as I see most are simply too much in denial, or too shortsighted to act responsibly.

 

[asterism]

Yes, the glaciers were melting in 1900, as the graph shows. Now they are melting even faster.

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Swiss glaciers 'in full retreat'

Swiss glaciers are melting away at an accelerating rate and many will vanish this century if climate projections are correct, two new studies suggest.

One assessment found that some 10 cubic km of ice have been lost from 1,500 glaciers over the past nine years.

The other study, based on a sample of 30 representative glaciers, indicates the group's members are now losing a metre of thickness every year.

Both pieces of work come out of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.

"The trend is negative, but what we see is that the trend is also steepening," said Matthias Huss from the Zurich university's Laboratory of Hydraulics, Hydrology and Glaciology

Now there is no way that we will prevent the melting of most of the glaciers in the world. That is already in the pipe with amount of GHGs we have in the atmosphere right now. What we might prevent is the emission of the GHGs stored in the methane clathrates in the permafrost and ocean. If these let go, the game is over. No matter what we do, we will just be along for the ride. And this is what I expect to happen, as I see most are simply too much in denial, or too shortsighted to act responsibly.

You mean the methane clathrates under the expanding polar ice?

 

[Abraham3]

Obviously not.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yes, the glaciers were melting in 1900, as the graph shows. Now they are melting even faster.

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Swiss glaciers 'in full retreat'

Swiss glaciers are melting away at an accelerating rate and many will vanish this century if climate projections are correct, two new studies suggest.

One assessment found that some 10 cubic km of ice have been lost from 1,500 glaciers over the past nine years.

The other study, based on a sample of 30 representative glaciers, indicates the group's members are now losing a metre of thickness every year.

Both pieces of work come out of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.

"The trend is negative, but what we see is that the trend is also steepening," said Matthias Huss from the Zurich university's Laboratory of Hydraulics, Hydrology and Glaciology

Now there is no way that we will prevent the melting of most of the glaciers in the world. That is already in the pipe with amount of GHGs we have in the atmosphere right now. What we might prevent is the emission of the GHGs stored in the methane clathrates in the permafrost and ocean. If these let go, the game is over. No matter what we do, we will just be along for the ride. And this is what I expect to happen, as I see most are simply too much in denial, or too shortsighted to act responsibly.

They melted, but they really mean it this time!

Want to shut me up? Show me one lab experiment where adding 800PPM of CO2 raises the temperature 3 degrees

 

[daveman]

Well now, Dave boy, why don't you just link to where Dr. James Hansen said that? Or be shown to be a liar.

No sweat, Roxy.

[0804.1126] Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim?

Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim?

J. Hansen (1 and 2), M. Sato (1 and 2), P. Kharecha (1 and 2), D. Beerling (3), R. Berner (4), V. Masson-Delmotte (5), M. Pagani (4), M. Raymo (6), D. L. Royer (7), J. C. Zachos (8) ((1) NASA GISS, (2) Columbia Univ. Earth Institute, (3) Univ. Sheffield, (4) Yale Univ., (5) LSCE/IPSL, (6) Boston Univ., (7) Wesleyan Univ., (8) Univ. California Santa Cruz)
(Submitted on 7 Apr 2008 (v1), last revised 15 Oct 2008 (this version, v3))
Paleoclimate data show that climate sensitivity is ~3 deg-C for doubled CO2, including only fast feedback processes. Equilibrium sensitivity, including slower surface albedo feedbacks, is ~6 deg-C for doubled CO2 for the range of climate states between glacial conditions and ice-free Antarctica. Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 fell to 450 +/- 100 ppm, a level that will be exceeded within decades, barring prompt policy changes. If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm. The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings. An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of seeding irreversible catastrophic effects.​

Guess I'm not a liar, huh?

 

[Abraham3]

Hansen says that we can stop glacial retreat by returning to 350 PPM

If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm.

Guess I'm not a liar, huh?

Umm.. guess you are

ESL, Dave, right?

 

[flacaltenn]

Well now, Dave boy, why don't you just link to where Dr. James Hansen said that? Or be shown to be a liar.

No sweat, Roxy.

[0804.1126] Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim?

Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim?

J. Hansen (1 and 2), M. Sato (1 and 2), P. Kharecha (1 and 2), D. Beerling (3), R. Berner (4), V. Masson-Delmotte (5), M. Pagani (4), M. Raymo (6), D. L. Royer (7), J. C. Zachos (8) ((1) NASA GISS, (2) Columbia Univ. Earth Institute, (3) Univ. Sheffield, (4) Yale Univ., (5) LSCE/IPSL, (6) Boston Univ., (7) Wesleyan Univ., (8) Univ. California Santa Cruz)
(Submitted on 7 Apr 2008 (v1), last revised 15 Oct 2008 (this version, v3))
Paleoclimate data show that climate sensitivity is ~3 deg-C for doubled CO2, including only fast feedback processes. Equilibrium sensitivity, including slower surface albedo feedbacks, is ~6 deg-C for doubled CO2 for the range of climate states between glacial conditions and ice-free Antarctica. Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 fell to 450 +/- 100 ppm, a level that will be exceeded within decades, barring prompt policy changes. If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm. The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings. An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of seeding irreversible catastrophic effects.​

Guess I'm not a liar, huh?

"Where should humanity aim?"

Directly at the salaries of these arrogant SOBs. They need to be humbled and told to do their job and stop pretending that they are annointed.

READY, AIM, FIRE !!!!!!



That is a prime example of using science as weapon..
Thanks Daveman...

 

[daveman]

Hansen says that we can stop glacial retreat by returning to 350 PPM

If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm.

Guess I'm not a liar, huh?

Umm.. guess you are

ESL, Dave, right?

Nope.

 

[daveman]

Well now, Dave boy, why don't you just link to where Dr. James Hansen said that? Or be shown to be a liar.

No sweat, Roxy.

[0804.1126] Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim?

Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim?

J. Hansen (1 and 2), M. Sato (1 and 2), P. Kharecha (1 and 2), D. Beerling (3), R. Berner (4), V. Masson-Delmotte (5), M. Pagani (4), M. Raymo (6), D. L. Royer (7), J. C. Zachos (8) ((1) NASA GISS, (2) Columbia Univ. Earth Institute, (3) Univ. Sheffield, (4) Yale Univ., (5) LSCE/IPSL, (6) Boston Univ., (7) Wesleyan Univ., (8) Univ. California Santa Cruz)
(Submitted on 7 Apr 2008 (v1), last revised 15 Oct 2008 (this version, v3))
Paleoclimate data show that climate sensitivity is ~3 deg-C for doubled CO2, including only fast feedback processes. Equilibrium sensitivity, including slower surface albedo feedbacks, is ~6 deg-C for doubled CO2 for the range of climate states between glacial conditions and ice-free Antarctica. Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 fell to 450 +/- 100 ppm, a level that will be exceeded within decades, barring prompt policy changes. If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm. The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings. An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of seeding irreversible catastrophic effects.​

Guess I'm not a liar, huh?

"Where should humanity aim?"

Directly at the salaries of these arrogant SOBs. They need to be humbled and told to do their job and stop pretending that they are annointed.

READY, AIM, FIRE !!!!!!



That is a prime example of using science as weapon..
Thanks Daveman...

The problem is sheep like Roxy and PMS, who would believe their High Priests if they said water is dry.

 

[Abraham3]

Hansen says that we can stop glacial retreat by returning to 350 PPM

Guess I'm not a liar, huh?

Umm.. guess you are

ESL, Dave, right?

Nope.

Then you were willfully and knowingly telling a falsehood. That's a shame. I tried to give you an out, but...

Hansen didn't say boo regarding glaciers, ergo, you lied.

 

[flacaltenn]

Umm.. guess you are

ESL, Dave, right?

Nope.

Then you were willfully and knowingly telling a falsehood. That's a shame. I tried to give you an out, but...

Hansen didn't say boo regarding glaciers, ergo, you lied.

Hansen spewed a SWEEPING GENERALIZATION.. The kind of thing REAL scientists should never do.. And unfortunately for you --- his statement DID IMPLY that glaciers would be healthier at 350ppm..

If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted,..................[/QUOTE]

It's all there in the sentence construction --- along with all the OTHER unvoiced SPECIFICS of what a "NORMAL" climate would look like if everyone OBEYED the Hansen edicts..

Bet you own a Clintonian Thesaurus to twerk your way out of semantics regularly..

 

[Abraham3]

"Where should humanity aim?"

Directly at the salaries of these arrogant SOBs. They need to be humbled and told to do their job and stop pretending that they are annointed.

READY, AIM, FIRE !!!!!!

That is a prime example of using science as weapon..

Arrogant SOB? Would you like to compare Hansen's CV to anyone on your side of the argument? Spencer? McIntrye? Pielke? Watts? Eh?

And that's a pretty violent analogy you're using there. Are you sure it's just their salaries you'd like to shoot?

 

[Ropey]

We should want an ice age?

The world is moving away from the last ice age.

 

[flacaltenn]

What's REALLY REALLY an "inconvienient truth" for Abraham is that the paper attached to that Hansen quote is ALL ABOUT GLACIATION.. Mentioned over 40 times in every Prehistoric era analysis that is presented..

As for the CURRENT era ---- Hansen spews this very scientific statement.. Please bow in silent reverence...

Alpine glaciers are in near-global retreat [72, 73]. After a one-time added flush of fresh
water, glacier demise will yield summers and autumns of frequently dry rivers, including rivers
originating in the Himalayas, Andes and Rocky Mountains that now supply water to hundreds of
millions of people. Present glacier retreat, and warming in the pipeline, indicate that 385 ppm
CO2 is already a threat.

That --- validates the comment in the abstract don't it?
I have never caught Daveman in a lie.. I'm trying -- but it's a tough job.

Neither have you...

 

[flacaltenn]

"Where should humanity aim?"

Directly at the salaries of these arrogant SOBs. They need to be humbled and told to do their job and stop pretending that they are annointed.

READY, AIM, FIRE !!!!!!

That is a prime example of using science as weapon..

Arrogant SOB? Would you like to compare Hansen's CV to anyone on your side of the argument? Spencer? McIntrye? Pielke? Watts? Eh?

And that's a pretty violent analogy you're using there. Are you sure it's just their salaries you'd like to shoot?

ROFLing ..........

Political correctness card eh?

Considering the unfounded policy prescriptions that Hansen is demanding in that abstract, I don't care if he has VOODOO powers in his C.V.

He certainly appears to acting more like the tribal witch doctor exhorting a living from the useful idiots --- than a scientist..
He's telling ME where to "aim"..

Yes --- aim for his salary... That would be the prudent self-defense move here..
Demote him to witchdoctor apprentice..

 

[daveman]

Umm.. guess you are

ESL, Dave, right?

Nope.

Then you were willfully and knowingly telling a falsehood. That's a shame. I tried to give you an out, but...

Hansen didn't say boo regarding glaciers, ergo, you lied.

Yawn.

No, Hansen said in order to save civilization we need to lower our CO2 to a level BELOW a level that civilization has already existed at.

Tell me again: Why do you believe this moron?

 

[daveman]

"Where should humanity aim?"

Directly at the salaries of these arrogant SOBs. They need to be humbled and told to do their job and stop pretending that they are annointed.

READY, AIM, FIRE !!!!!!

That is a prime example of using science as weapon..

Arrogant SOB? Would you like to compare Hansen's CV to anyone on your side of the argument? Spencer? McIntrye? Pielke? Watts? Eh?

And that's a pretty violent analogy you're using there. Are you sure it's just their salaries you'd like to shoot?

Sure, let's compare them. For instance, the topic of ethics violations.

NASA Scientist Accused of Using Celeb Status Among Environmental Groups to Enrich Himself | Fox News

The NASA scientist who once claimed the Bush administration tried to "silence" his global warming claims is now accused of receiving more than $1.2 million from the very environmental organizations whose agenda he advocated.

In a lawsuit filed Tuesday in Washington, D.C., a group claims NASA is withholding documents that show James Hansen failed to comply with ethics rules and financial disclosures regarding substantial compensation he earned outside his $180,000 taxpayer-paid position as director of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

"Hansen's office appears to be somewhat of a rogue operation. It's clearly a taxpayer-funded global warming advocacy organization," said Chris Horner, a co-founder of The American Tradition Institute, which filed the lawsuit. "The real issue here is, has Hansen been asking NASA in writing, in advance, for permission for these outside activities? We have reason to believe that has not been occurring."

The lawsuit claims Hansen privately profited from his public job in violation of federal ethics rules, and NASA allowed him to do it because of his influence in the media and celebrity status among environmental groups, which rewarded him handsomely the last four years.
Gifts, speaking fees, prizes and consulting compensation include:

-- A shared $1 million prize from the Dan David Foundation for his "profound contribution to humanity." Hansen's cut ranged from $333,000 to $500,000, Horner said, adding that the precise amount is not known because Hansen's publicly available financial disclosure form only shows the prize was "an amount in excess of $5,000."
-- The 2010 Blue Planet prize worth $550,000 from the Asahi Glass Foundation, which recognizes efforts to solve environmental issues.
-- The Sophie Prize for his "political activism," worth $100,000. The Sophie Prize is meant to "inspire people working towards a sustainable future."
-- Speaking fees totaling $48,164 from a range of mostly environmental organizations.
-- A $15,000 participation fee, waived by the W.J. Clinton Foundation for its 2009 Waterkeeper Conference.
-- $720,000 in legal advice and media consulting services provided by The George Soros Open Society Institute. Hansen said he did not take "direct" support from Soros but accepted "pro bono legal advice."

Hansen did not respond to Fox News' request for comment.

Federal rules prohibit government employees from receiving certain types of income outside their job. Employees are required to file Form 17-60 in writing before any outside activity. And annually, they're required to submit Form SF 278, after receiving outside compensation.

The American Tradition Institute filed a Freedom of Information Act request for those two documents for Hansen. The lawsuit claims NASA has "repeatedly and unlawfully refused to produced the requested materials."​

Yes, very impressive.