86% Of Swiss Glaciers Were Retreating In The Year 1900

[RollingThunder]

BUT TODAY --- particulates from newly industrialized China are responsible for a COOLING EFFECT and masking the CO2 warming trend.. Cooling effects from volcanoes are ALWAYS blamed on particulates aren't they??

Arguing from ignorance always makes you look stupid. Of course, in your case, fecalhead, you are stupid.

Volcanoes produce a variety of effects on the Earth and its climate, not just one. Volcanoes shoot a lot of particulates, aerosols and gases into the stratosphere where the ash particulates cause a cooling effect and the sulfuric gases, after combining with water droplets to form tiny sulfuric acid droplets, cause an even greater cooling effect, by reflecting sunlight back into outer space. Industrial emissions can have a similar effect, particularly if they contain a lot of sulfates from coal burning power plants.

Volcanoes also produce a lot of black carbon soot that absorbs sunlight and can cause a slight warming effect in upper atmosphere and also settles out on the surface of the Earth. When black carbon soot settles on snow or ice, it changes the albedo and causes a melting effect. Industrial black soot has a similar effect. So volcanoes can have both a cooling effect, that lasts a few years before the ash and sulfuric acid droplets settle out of the atmosphere, and an ice melting effect that can last even longer. Scientists now think that a large part of the current melting of glaciers in the Himalayas is being caused by deposited layers of black carbon soot from Chinese and Indian industrialization, in addition to the increased temperatures caused by global warming from the increased levels of CO2.

THE INFLUENCE OF VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS ON THE OZONE, GREENHOUSE, AND HAZE EFFECTS
(Excerpts)

THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT:
Certain gases, called greenhouse gases (primarily carbon dioxide and water vapor; but also methane, N2O, and CFCs), allow short wavelength radiation from the sun (UV and visible light) to penetrate through the lower atmosphere to the earth's surface. These same gases, however, absorb long wavelength radiation (infrared), which is the energy the earth reradiates back into space. The trapping of this infrared heat energy by these greenhouse gases results in global warming. Global warming has been evident since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Most scientists attribute global warming to the release of greenhouse gases through the burning of fossil fuels.

THE HAZE EFFECT:
Suspended particles, such as dust and ash, can block out the earth's sunlight, thus reducing solar radiation and lowering mean global temperatures. The haze effect often generates exceptionally red sunsets due to the scattering of red wavelengths by submicron-size particles in the stratosphere and upper troposphere.

INFLUENCE ON THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT:
Volcanic eruptions can enhance global warming by adding CO2 to the atmosphere. However, a far greater amount of CO2 is contributed to the atmosphere by human activities each year than by volcanic eruptions. T.M.Gerlach (1991, American Geophysical Union) notes that human-made CO2 exceeds the estimated global release of CO2 from volcanoes by at least 150 times. The small amount of global warming caused by eruption-generated greenhouse gases is offset by the far greater amount of global cooling caused by eruption-generated particles in the stratosphere (the haze effect). Greenhouse warming of the earth has been particularly evident since 1980. Without the cooling influence of such eruptions as El Chichon (1982) and Mt. Pinatubo (1991), described below, greenhouse warming would have been more pronounced.

INFLUENCE ON THE HAZE EFFECT:
Volcanic eruptions enhance the haze effect to a greater extent than the greenhouse effect, and thus they can lower mean global temperatures. It was thought for many years that the greatest volcanic contribution of the haze effect was from the suspended ash particles in the upper atmosphere that would block out solar radiation. However, these ideas changed in the 1982 after the eruption of the Mexican volcano, El Chichon. Although the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens lowered global temperatures by 0.1OC, the much smaller eruption of El Chichon lowered global temperatures three to five times as much. Although the Mt. St. Helens blast emitted a greater amount of ash in the stratosphere, the El Chichon eruption emitted a much greater volume of sulfur-rich gases (40x more). It appears that the volume of pyroclastic debris emitted during a blast is not the best criteria to measure its effects on the atmosphere. The amount of sulfur-rich gases appears to be more important. Sulfur combines with water vapor in the stratosphere to form dense clouds of tiny sulfuric acid droplets. These droplets take several years to settle out and they are capable to decreasing the troposphere temperatures because they absorb solar radiation and scatter it back to space.

PINATUBO (1991) -- Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines on June 15, 1991, and one month later Mt. Hudson in southern Chile also erupted. The Pinatubo eruption produced the largest sulfur oxide cloud this century. The combined aerosol plume of Mt. Pinatubo and Mt. Hudson diffused around the globe in a matter of months. The data collected after these eruptions show that mean world temperatures decreased by about 1 degree Centigrade over the subsequent two years. This cooling effect was welcomed by many scientists who saw it as a counter-balance to global warming.

You didn't address my question.. What has CHANGED in the content of industrial particulates since 1800s??

Probably not much. Why would you assume that anything had to have changed. Some particulates, aerosols and gases can still rise high enough to have a cooling effect and the black carbon soot still settles out on top of snow and ice and causes them to melt. Nothing has significantly changed about that.

And what has CHANGED in the output of volcanoes to make them NOT agents of cooling..

Nothing, moron. They still cause cooling. I described all this in the post you are quoting. You're just too damn retarded to comprehend what is right in front of you.

Youre off on some tangent that doesn't have anything to do with my observation..

You're off on some insane tangent that doesn't have anything to do with reality or anything that I've said in this debate. Try actually reading other people's posts if you want to keep up.

It says right there in your MASSIVELY arrogant font-rant..

Industrial emissions can have a similar effect, particularly if they contain a lot of sulfates from coal burning power plants.

What was soot and particulates a more effective glacier killer in the 1800s MORE than it is today? Especially if TODAY --- you are crediting particulates as a powerful coolant effect.

Whoever said that nonsense? Black carbon soot and ash that settle out on the surface are still helping to melt glaciers today just like they were a century or so ago (or always really). Sulfuric acid droplets and ash in the stratosphere are still causing a cooling effect that persists for several years, just like they always have. As I said in my post: "Scientists now think that a large part of the current melting of glaciers in the Himalayas is being caused by deposited layers of black carbon soot from Chinese and Indian industrialization, in addition to the increased temperatures caused by global warming from the increased levels of CO2."

It's really a shame that you're too retarded to understand this, fecalhead.

 

[daveman]

No, doing something you have yet to learn to do, present evidence for your opinion.

Oh, my goodness. That's just a flat-out lie.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/search.php?searchid=7019527

Lots and lots of links.

Now I fully expect you to apologize for your lie.

Well, I would, but I know better.

LOL Clicked on your link. About what I expected;

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms

You do know, don't you, that board search results time out?

No. Apparently you didn't. You're not very bright, after all.

 

[RollingThunder]

No, doing something you have yet to learn to do, present evidence for your opinion.

Oh, my goodness. That's just a flat-out lie.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/search.php?searchid=7019527

Lots and lots of links.

Now I fully expect you to apologize for your lie.

Well, I would, but I know better.

LOL Clicked on your link. About what I expected;

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms

You do know, don't you, that board search results time out?

No. Apparently you didn't. You're not very bright, after all.

LOLOLOL....so you're saying that you knew in advance that your link would "time out" and be useless but you posted it anyway as evidence that you do post evidence to support your crackpot opinions? ROTFLMAO. Talk about "not very bright"!

 

[daveman]

LOL Clicked on your link. About what I expected;

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms

You do know, don't you, that board search results time out?

No. Apparently you didn't. You're not very bright, after all.

LOLOLOL....so you're saying that you knew in advance that your link would "time out" and be useless but you posted it anyway as evidence that you do post evidence to support your crackpot opinions? ROTFLMAO. Talk about "not very bright"!

You're free to check out my profile and see for yourself.

But then, you're terrified of evidence that proves you wrong, so there's no way in hell you'll check it out.

Guaranteed.

 

[RollingThunder]

You do know, don't you, that board search results time out?

No. Apparently you didn't. You're not very bright, after all.

LOLOLOL....so you're saying that you knew in advance that your link would "time out" and be useless but you posted it anyway as evidence that you do post evidence to support your crackpot opinions? ROTFLMAO. Talk about "not very bright"!

You're free to check out my profile and see for yourself.

So why did you post the link, goofball? I mean, since you claimed to know in advance that it would "time out" and be useless. Again, talk about "not very bright

But then, you're terrified of evidence that proves you wrong, so there's no way in hell you'll check it out.

I've been reading your hilariously ignorant posts for quite a while, DaveDumb so I already know that what you imagine is "evidence" always turns out to be just links to misinformation and pseudo-science filled denier cult blogs sponsored by the fossil fuel industry. Sorry, dude, but you are an ignorant denier cult retard, severely afflicted by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Of course, that unfortunately means that you are far too stupid and ignorant to have the mental capacity to realize how extremely stupid and ignorant you actually are.

 

[daveman]

LOLOLOL....so you're saying that you knew in advance that your link would "time out" and be useless but you posted it anyway as evidence that you do post evidence to support your crackpot opinions? ROTFLMAO. Talk about "not very bright"!

You're free to check out my profile and see for yourself.

So why did you post the link, goofball? I mean, since you claimed to know in advance that it would "time out" and be useless. Again, talk about "not very bright

If he'd clicked on the link during the time it was active, it would have worked, wouldn't it?

Nevertheless, the point remains that the claim that I don't back up MY claims is unfounded.

Period.

And you whining about it doesn't alter reality, Slappy.

But then, you're terrified of evidence that proves you wrong, so there's no way in hell you'll check it out.

I've been reading your hilariously ignorant posts for quite a while, DaveDumb so I already know that what you imagine is "evidence" always turns out to be just links to misinformation and pseudo-science filled denier cult blogs sponsored by the fossil fuel industry. Sorry, dude, but you are an ignorant denier cult retard, severely afflicted by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Of course, that unfortunately means that you are far too stupid and ignorant to have the mental capacity to realize how extremely stupid and ignorant you actually are.

See, now you're just lying. Go look at the threads I've started in the Enviro forum. They cite research papers by scientists.

But, of course you won't. You're terrified of evidence that proves you wrong.

And it's funny how all you cultists started yapping about the D-K Effect all at the same time.

Just coincidence, I'm sure.

 

[Abraham3]

I haven't said one word about "D-K effects".

Funny how all of your denialists start rejecting mainstream science at the same time. Very odd.

 

[mamooth]

I'd like to discuss...

Then start your own thread, dumbass.

Poor dave doesn't want to talk about how he parrots a fossil fuel funded think tank, one that has a habit of filing nuisance lawsuits that get tossed. They tried it against Dr. Mann, trying to get his personal emails, and the judge laughed it out of court.

And speaking of Dr. Mann, his libel lawsuit is moving forward. NRO tried to get discovery halted, but the judge just denied that motion, so discovery moves forward now.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/...ts_Motion_for_Interlocutory_Certification.pdf

So Dr. Mann wants full discovery, while NRO is begging for no discovery. Dr. Mann wants everything out in the open, while the denialists don't. Looks like the denialists have a lot of shady dealings that they want hidden.

 

[mamooth]

Go look at the threads I've started in the Enviro forum. They cite research papers by scientists.

Results that are usually the opposite of what you claim. You mess up like that a lot, given you never look at the actual paper. You just parrot the link and whatever someone else told you the paper said. It's how your cult works.

The funny thing? How you think no one recognizes your charade.

 

[daveman]

I haven't said one word about "D-K effects".

WTF is your problem? I wasn't talking to you. Are you completely unable to read usernames?

Funny how all of your denialists start rejecting mainstream science at the same time. Very odd.

Wrong. Us skeptics started rejected junk climate science at the same time, because we have respect for science and the scientific method.

Telling lies about us really doesn't help your credibility.

 

[daveman]

I'd like to discuss...

Then start your own thread, dumbass.

Poor dave doesn't want to talk about how he parrots a fossil fuel funded think tank, one that has a habit of filing nuisance lawsuits that get tossed. They tried it against Dr. Mann, trying to get his personal emails, and the judge laughed it out of court.

And speaking of Dr. Mann, his libel lawsuit is moving forward. NRO tried to get discovery halted, but the judge just denied that motion, so discovery moves forward now.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/...ts_Motion_for_Interlocutory_Certification.pdf

So Dr. Mann wants full discovery, while NRO is begging for no discovery. Dr. Mann wants everything out in the open, while the denialists don't. Looks like the denialists have a lot of shady dealings that they want hidden.

Yeah, it's going to be funny when Mann has to reveal all the data he's hidden, altered, or destroyed.

 

[daveman]

Go look at the threads I've started in the Enviro forum. They cite research papers by scientists.

Results that are usually the opposite of what you claim. You mess up like that a lot, given you never look at the actual paper. You just parrot the link and whatever someone else told you the paper said. It's how your cult works.

The funny thing? How you think no one recognizes your charade.

Oh, if ONLY you were right! Well, cheer up -- the law of averages says you're bound to get one right one of these days.

 

[RollingThunder]

DaveDumb's idiotic OP was debunked in post #33. Only DaveDumb's moronic inability to face reality keeps this worthless thread staggering along.

 

[mamooth]

Switzerland was majorly affected by the Little Ice Age, and thus the glaciers grew. And as the LIA only ended around 1850, those glaciers have been receding ever since. They're just receding a lot faster now.

Funny thing about that Little Ice Age. Prevailing theories say it was initiated by a series of big volcanic eruptions and the resulting positive feedback from more snow and ice, but it was also caused by ... wait for it ... greenhouse gases.

That is, a decrease in greenhouse gases, caused indirectly by human activity. Depopulation due to the plague and new diseases in the Americas led to vast amounts of agricultural land turning back to forest and sequestering CO2, lowering atmospheric CO2 levels and thus lowering temperatures. Yes, AGW theory also explains the Little Ice Age.

Reforestation helped trigger Little Ice Age, researchers say

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Europe's chill linked to disease

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like to discuss...

Then start your own thread, dumbass.

Poor dave doesn't want to talk about how he parrots a fossil fuel funded think tank, one that has a habit of filing nuisance lawsuits that get tossed. They tried it against Dr. Mann, trying to get his personal emails, and the judge laughed it out of court.

And speaking of Dr. Mann, his libel lawsuit is moving forward. NRO tried to get discovery halted, but the judge just denied that motion, so discovery moves forward now.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/...ts_Motion_for_Interlocutory_Certification.pdf

So Dr. Mann wants full discovery, while NRO is begging for no discovery. Dr. Mann wants everything out in the open, while the denialists don't. Looks like the denialists have a lot of shady dealings that they want hidden.

I have seen no evidence that the NRO team tried to quash discovery. As has been the case previously, I'm sure you're distorting the facts beyond all recognition. Lying is what you do.

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like to discuss...

Then start your own thread, dumbass.

Poor dave doesn't want to talk about how he parrots a fossil fuel funded think tank, one that has a habit of filing nuisance lawsuits that get tossed. They tried it against Dr. Mann, trying to get his personal emails, and the judge laughed it out of court.

What "fossil fuel funded think tank" is that? For your information, they weren't his personnel emails. They were on his University of Pennsylvania email account, so they were the property of the University of Pennsylvania - public property, in other words. That makes them subject to FOI requests. The judge ruled incorrectly in the matter.

And speaking of Dr. Mann, his libel lawsuit is moving forward. NRO tried to get discovery halted, but the judge just denied that motion, so discovery moves forward now.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/...ts_Motion_for_Interlocutory_Certification.pdf

So Dr. Mann wants full discovery, while NRO is begging for no discovery. Dr. Mann wants everything out in the open, while the denialists don't. Looks like the denialists have a lot of shady dealings that they want hidden.

Your link points to a document that simply states NRO's appeal to dismiss the case is denied. It says nothing about discovery. What a surprise that you would just make-up the manure you post in this forum. It's your modus operandi.

 

[bripat9643]

Switzerland was majorly affected by the Little Ice Age, and thus the glaciers grew. And as the LIA only ended around 1850, those glaciers have been receding ever since. They're just receding a lot faster now.

Funny thing about that Little Ice Age. Prevailing theories say it was initiated by a series of big volcanic eruptions and the resulting positive feedback from more snow and ice, but it was also caused by ... wait for it ... greenhouse gases.

That is, a decrease in greenhouse gases, caused indirectly by human activity. Depopulation due to the plague and new diseases in the Americas led to vast amounts of agricultural land turning back to forest and sequestering CO2, lowering atmospheric CO2 levels and thus lowering temperatures. Yes, AGW theory also explains the Little Ice Age.

Reforestation helped trigger Little Ice Age, researchers say

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Europe's chill linked to disease

So the farmers of Europe, which constitutes about 1% of the surface of the globe, are responsible for the Little Ice Age?

Your delusions have reached truly monumental proportions.

 

[mamooth]

Shit-for-brains, see the word "Americas" there?

Holy shit, you're stupid. Why don't you run along to the kiddie table and stop bothering the grownups? Here, have a juicebox, and wipe that snot off your face.

In general, this is the problem the world faces concerning denialists. They're effin' 'tards, which makes them easy pickins' for being recruited and brainwashed by a political cult.

 

[flacaltenn]

Switzerland was majorly affected by the Little Ice Age, and thus the glaciers grew. And as the LIA only ended around 1850, those glaciers have been receding ever since. They're just receding a lot faster now.

Funny thing about that Little Ice Age. Prevailing theories say it was initiated by a series of big volcanic eruptions and the resulting positive feedback from more snow and ice, but it was also caused by ... wait for it ... greenhouse gases.

That is, a decrease in greenhouse gases, caused indirectly by human activity. Depopulation due to the plague and new diseases in the Americas led to vast amounts of agricultural land turning back to forest and sequestering CO2, lowering atmospheric CO2 levels and thus lowering temperatures. Yes, AGW theory also explains the Little Ice Age.

Reforestation helped trigger Little Ice Age, researchers say

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Europe's chill linked to disease

So the farmers of Europe, which constitutes about 1% of the surface of the globe, are responsible for the Little Ice Age?

Your delusions have reached truly monumental proportions.

70% of the globe is ocean.. Of the 30% that's left -- a reduction in the Americas and Europe of population could NEVER explain a true change in climate -- no matter how hard you try.. If it took that little to swing the radiation balance wheel for the climate --- exterminating the buffalo should have cooled the planet to an iceball..

Or gassing the world's termite population would be a sufficient solution to our current warming trend..

 

[bripat9643]

Shit-for-brains, see the word "Americas" there?

Holy shit, you're stupid. Why don't you run along to the kiddie table and stop bothering the grownups? Here, have a juicebox, and wipe that snot off your face..

My, my, my, aren't we nasty.

In general, this is the problem the world faces concerning denialists. They're effin' 'tards, which makes them easy pickins' for being recruited and brainwashed by a political cult.

What new diseases in the Americas? You realize, don't you, that Columbus didn't land on the island of Hispaniola until 1492, don't you? That was long after the beginning of the Little Ice Age. The diseases that wiped out the Mississippi culture probably didn't reach it until reach it until several decades after Ponce de Leon set foot in Florida in 1511.

It has been conventionally defined as a period extending from the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries, or alternatively, from about 1350 to about 1850,