73% of Republicans think Tariffs will help the US

[pismoe]

How did Trump shift the Republicans from a free trade party to a pro-tariffs party? Free trade was a tent pole issue for Republicans.

--------------------------------------- yeah correct , i often heard Smart people that i respected say the same thing . Thing is that maybe they were WRONG . I grew up thinking that 'republicans' were Conservative until about 2000 but then realized that 'repubs' aren't Conservaive . So there went another lie or myth or misuse or redefinition of a word for me . Maybe Tariffs will work out fine , guess that we will see . USA was run at one time on Tariffs alone up until 1916 or thereabouts . Maybe its time to return to tariffs for the good of Americans rather than fureigners . Old timey repub rinos and their ways may finally be dying out thank God as Trumpism takes over Nosmo .

 

[jc456]

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

I can agree with that to a point, but Trump's behaviors sure do add drama to the process.
.

They do more than add drama, they make it impossible for the leaders of other nations to give in.

Trump as a big shot in RE could bully all his people around Leaders of countries will not look weak to their people and trump doesn't realize it yet but he's in a different league now Not many leaders will take his crap

He was not even very good at that. Trump Inc did not really take off till it was reorganized as a holding company and Trump stopped making business decisions. The thing that Trump has been most successful at is selling himself and his name.

He tried to bully his way into Atlantic City by building the biggest and fanciest casino...that did not work out so well.

most every car manufacturer in this country has lost money. to make blanket statements against trump and his ability to lose money is funny as shit. One sometimes learns the most by failures. From Winston Churchill

 

[healthmyths]

As new tariffs take hold, more see negative than positive impact for the U.S.

77% dems say bad thing.

The poll doesn't differentiate tariffs on countries with manipulated currency and below cost prices, but it still strikes me as odd. The gop is now isolationist.

And look at the break between college and non-college educated. And white grads and non-grads

Strange days indeed.

Every time one of you use the word "educated" or "uneducated" I stop reading right there.

Definition of EDUCATE
My two years of high school Latin helped me understand....
The Latin word ducere, meaning “to lead,” and its form ductus give us the roots duc and duct. Words from the Latin ducere have something to do with leading.
: to persuade or condition to feel, believe, or act in a desired way

• educate the public to support our position

 

[edward37]

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

I can agree with that to a point, but Trump's behaviors sure do add drama to the process.
.

They do more than add drama, they make it impossible for the leaders of other nations to give in.

Trump as a big shot in RE could bully all his people around Leaders of countries will not look weak to their people and trump doesn't realize it yet but he's in a different league now Not many leaders will take his crap

He was not even very good at that. Trump Inc did not really take off till it was reorganized as a holding company and Trump stopped making business decisions. The thing that Trump has been most successful at is selling himself and his name.

He tried to bully his way into Atlantic City by building the biggest and fanciest casino...that did not work out so well.

I met him with a friend that knew him after a boxing match at one of AC's casinos in the 90's Who knew???

 

[g5000]

As new tariffs take hold, more see negative than positive impact for the U.S.

77% dems say bad thing.

The poll doesn't differentiate tariffs on countries with manipulated currency and below cost prices, but it still strikes me as odd. The gop is now isolationist.

And look at the break between college and non-college educated. And white grads and non-grads

Strange days indeed.

Yep. Trump is pulling the whole country to the left. The Democrats are becoming more and more socialist, and the Fifth Avenue Republicans will be avowed Marxists if this keeps up.

Protectionist tariffs, epic deficit spending, cult of personality, admiration and praise for a KGB thug, all the ingredients are there.

 

[pismoe]

and was it ever FREE Trade if all the trade partners were charging tariffs except for the USA Nosmo ??

 

[jc456]

As new tariffs take hold, more see negative than positive impact for the U.S.

77% dems say bad thing.

The poll doesn't differentiate tariffs on countries with manipulated currency and below cost prices, but it still strikes me as odd. The gop is now isolationist.

And look at the break between college and non-college educated. And white grads and non-grads

Strange days indeed.

I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the word "help".

If a temporary tariff war leads to mutual large-picture reduction of tariffs and more towards free trade, sure.

If tariffs remain where they are or keep escalating, a person would have to be pretty under-informed to thinks that's good.
.

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

to attempt to balance the trade with countries who have tariffed our goods.
Watching jobs roll out of this country due to price of goods sold in america was quite sad. to cheapen our product prices we went out of country and good people lost jobs.

For my company it was 400 jobs in 2003. Went to Mexico, Guadalajara. The quality was so bad that we now moved it to Shanghai. Not back here to the states. that fking sucks. We did that because our competition did it first and we had trouble competing with them on price. so they buckled under and moved out of country to cheap labor and poor quality. we're still at poor quality. never been the same. Never. Also, to ship in and out costs are quite fking high without tariffs. I personally have worn a chip on my shoulder as a result of that.

One more thing, we went from 8000 employees to about 2000 today. Here in the US about 800 employees. yep great move.

 

[edward37]

I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the word "help".

If a temporary tariff war leads to mutual large-picture reduction of tariffs and more towards free trade, sure.

If tariffs remain where they are or keep escalating, a person would have to be pretty under-informed to thinks that's good.
.

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

to attempt to balance the trade with countries who have tariffed our goods.
Watching jobs roll out of this country due to price of goods sold in america was quite sad. to cheapen our product prices we went out of country and good people lost jobs.

For my company it was 400 jobs in 2003. Went to Mexico, Guadalajara. The quality was so bad that we now moved it to Shanghai. Not back here to the states. that fking sucks. We did that because our competition did it first and we had trouble competing with them on price. so they buckled under and moved out of country to cheap labor and poor quality. we're still at poor quality. never been the same. Never. Also, to ship in and out costs are quite fking high without tariffs. I personally have worn a chip on my shoulder as a result of that.

One more thing, we went from 8000 employees to about 2000 today. Here in the US about 800 employees. yep great move.

but didn't trump say there are more jobs than there are people to fill them

 

[Harpy Eagle]

and was it ever FREE Trade if all the trade partners were charging tariffs except for the USA Nosmo ??

Where do you people get the idea that we do not charge tariffs?

Here is a list of all of our tariffs. Harmonized Tariff Schedule PDFs

There is a PDF you can download that is just shy of 4000 pages. That is a lot of tariffs for a country you think does not charge tariffs.

Then there are the industries we subsidize so they are cheaper to sell overseas, but I bet you think we do not do that either.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

I can agree with that to a point, but Trump's behaviors sure do add drama to the process.
.

They do more than add drama, they make it impossible for the leaders of other nations to give in.

Trump as a big shot in RE could bully all his people around Leaders of countries will not look weak to their people and trump doesn't realize it yet but he's in a different league now Not many leaders will take his crap

He was not even very good at that. Trump Inc did not really take off till it was reorganized as a holding company and Trump stopped making business decisions. The thing that Trump has been most successful at is selling himself and his name.

He tried to bully his way into Atlantic City by building the biggest and fanciest casino...that did not work out so well.

most every car manufacturer in this country has lost money. to make blanket statements against trump and his ability to lose money is funny as shit. One sometimes learns the most by failures. From Winston Churchill

I did not make a blanket statement about Trump and his ability to lose money, I pointed out a specific example of him trying to bully his way in and it failed.

Do try and keep up so I do not have to cover things twice.

 

[Rigby5]

As new tariffs take hold, more see negative than positive impact for the U.S.

77% dems say bad thing.

The poll doesn't differentiate tariffs on countries with manipulated currency and below cost prices, but it still strikes me as odd. The gop is now isolationist.

And look at the break between college and non-college educated. And white grads and non-grads

Strange days indeed.

I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the word "help".

If a temporary tariff war leads to mutual large-picture reduction of tariffs and more towards free trade, sure.

If tariffs remain where they are or keep escalating, a person would have to be pretty under-informed to thinks that's good.
.

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

Trade needed to be fixed because we not only have a huge trade deficit that physically makes us less wealthy every single years, but by undercutting our production, we lose the means of being self sufficient any more, and make ourselves much more vulnerable to being extorted in the future.

Trade wars do not harm the US any more because we don't export much any more anyway, and we ARE the single best market in the world, spending the most.

We will always win any trade war, and the trade imbalance has to be stopped as soon as possible.

 

[edward37]

I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the word "help".

If a temporary tariff war leads to mutual large-picture reduction of tariffs and more towards free trade, sure.

If tariffs remain where they are or keep escalating, a person would have to be pretty under-informed to thinks that's good.
.

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

Trade needed to be fixed because we not only have a huge trade deficit that physically makes us less wealthy every single years, but by undercutting our production, we lose the means of being self sufficient any more, and make ourselves much more vulnerable to being extorted in the future.

Trade wars do not harm the US any more because we don't export much any more anyway, and we ARE the single best market in the world, spending the most.

We will always win any trade war, and the trade imbalance has to be stopped as soon as possible.

don't hurt?? The farmers in Iowa N Dakota's screams can be heard countrywide

 

[pismoe]

thanks for the DETAILS Gator , i was just responding to Nosmo . Generally speaking , this tariff thing is the Presidents policy and its good with me because Trump is doing it . I'm not really interested and i don't care just so the USA comes out on top Gator .

 

[harmonica]

51% of turns are right turns

 

[Rigby5]

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

Trade needed to be fixed because we not only have a huge trade deficit that physically makes us less wealthy every single years, but by undercutting our production, we lose the means of being self sufficient any more, and make ourselves much more vulnerable to being extorted in the future.

Trade wars do not harm the US any more because we don't export much any more anyway, and we ARE the single best market in the world, spending the most.

We will always win any trade war, and the trade imbalance has to be stopped as soon as possible.

don't hurt?? The farmers in Iowa N Dakota's screams can be heard countrywide

Nonsense.
First of all, while we do export a lot of agricultural products, there is very little return on that compared to the finished goods being imported here, and there will always be a good overseas market for agricultural products regardless of any trade war.
Europe, Asia, Africa, etc., simply do not and likely never will have the farm lands, water, and climate the US accidentally happens to have.
We should not even be exporting things like corn, but instead be exporting things like plastic and alcohol made from that corn.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the word "help".

If a temporary tariff war leads to mutual large-picture reduction of tariffs and more towards free trade, sure.

If tariffs remain where they are or keep escalating, a person would have to be pretty under-informed to thinks that's good.
.

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

Trade needed to be fixed because we not only have a huge trade deficit that physically makes us less wealthy every single years, but by undercutting our production, we lose the means of being self sufficient any more, and make ourselves much more vulnerable to being extorted in the future.

Trade wars do not harm the US any more because we don't export much any more anyway, and we ARE the single best market in the world, spending the most.

We will always win any trade war, and the trade imbalance has to be stopped as soon as possible.

Thank you for your response.

I will say I do not agree with any of it.

First off, a trade deficit in and of itself is not a bad thing. I do not know about you, but I have a "massive" trade deficit with my local grocery store(s). In all my years shopping with them I give them money and they give me goods in return. Never once has a single store bought any of my goods. Does that make me less wealthy than if I grew/raised all of my own food? I actually think it is just the opposite because if I did that I would not have time to work the job I do, which pays me way better than growing/raising my own food would.

The US is in the same boat, we buy things from other places because it is more expedient to do so.

I have a hard time looking at the economic numbers and seeing how we are so bad off due to our trade policies...

4% unemployment...More jobs than people to fill them...108 straight months of economic expansion, the 2nd longest in our nations history

You say that trade wars do not hurt the US, I disagree with that as well. For one, an extended trade war makes things more expensive to buy, when Trump puts a tariff on a product, that is a tax that the person buying it pays. I work in the Ag industry and I can tell you that the growers and ranchers do not agree with your view on the damage from trade wars. Every industry publication we receive talks about almost nothing but that right now. Even the Sec of Ag has admitted it will hurt the Ag industry and is trying to find a way to ease the pain.

Then there is the, in my opinion myth of loss of manufacturing in this country. According to the National Association of Manufactures, our manufactured exports have quadrupled in the last 25 years years, that does not sound like we are losing anything. Also, something I did not know till I looked further into this topic, in 2015 we exported more manufactured goods than we imported, giving us a manufactured goods surplus for the year. We do not hear the POTUS or the other tariff hawks talk about that ever. Top 20 Facts About Manufacturing | NAM

Also, according to the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 percent of the jobs lost in manufacturing since 2000 have been to technological change, mostly automation and only 15 percent have been shipped overseas.

This is from the StLouis Fred...this is US manufacturing output since 1987...with a couple dips during recession, it has been going up steadily, so again what is being lost?

Manufacturing Sector: Real Output

 

[Rigby5]

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

Trade needed to be fixed because we not only have a huge trade deficit that physically makes us less wealthy every single years, but by undercutting our production, we lose the means of being self sufficient any more, and make ourselves much more vulnerable to being extorted in the future.

Trade wars do not harm the US any more because we don't export much any more anyway, and we ARE the single best market in the world, spending the most.

We will always win any trade war, and the trade imbalance has to be stopped as soon as possible.

Thank you for your response.

I will say I do not agree with any of it.

First off, a trade deficit in and of itself is not a bad thing. I do not know about you, but I have a "massive" trade deficit with my local grocery store(s). In all my years shopping with them I give them money and they give me goods in return. Never once has a single store bought any of my goods. Does that make me less wealthy than if I grew/raised all of my own food? I actually think it is just the opposite because if I did that I would not have time to work the job I do, which pays me way better than growing/raising my own food would.

The US is in the same boat, we buy things from other places because it is more expedient to do so.

I have a hard time looking at the economic numbers and seeing how we are so bad off due to our trade policies...

4% unemployment...More jobs than people to fill them...108 straight months of economic expansion, the 2nd longest in our nations history

You say that trade wars do not hurt the US, I disagree with that as well. For one, an extended trade war makes things more expensive to buy, when Trump puts a tariff on a product, that is a tax that the person buying it pays. I work in the Ag industry and I can tell you that the growers and ranchers do not agree with your view on the damage from trade wars. Every industry publication we receive talks about almost nothing but that right now. Even the Sec of Ag has admitted it will hurt the Ag industry and is trying to find a way to ease the pain.

Then there is the, in my opinion myth of loss of manufacturing in this country. According to the National Association of Manufactures, our manufactured exports have quadrupled in the last 25 years years, that does not sound like we are losing anything. Also, something I did not know till I looked further into this topic, in 2015 we exported more manufactured goods than we imported, giving us a manufactured goods surplus for the year. We do not hear the POTUS or the other tariff hawks talk about that ever. Top 20 Facts About Manufacturing | NAM

Also, according to the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 percent of the jobs lost in manufacturing since 2000 have been to technological change, mostly automation and only 15 percent have been shipped overseas.

This is from the StLouis Fred...this is US manufacturing output since 1987...with a couple dips during recession, it has been going up steadily, so again what is being lost?

View attachment 206181
Manufacturing Sector: Real Output

Yes we totally disagree.

First of all, there is no similarity between a local drug store and a foreign competitor country.
The local grocery store will pay local salaries, buy local goods and services, etc, so is good for the local economy.
A foreign competitor is not and will not buy US finished goods, and will try to dump below cost just to destroy US production, so they can jack up prices later.

A long term trade imbalance is FATAL.
I means actual wealth leaving the country, permanently.
Everyone become more poor in the US.
There is nothing it is more "expedient" to buy over seas.
And everything you buy overseas means it is less likely we will ever be able to make that in the US again.
Steel is an excellent example, and we went from being the largest steel makers, to not making any, and just recycling scrap steel.

Your figures on US production are also wrong.
Inflation has increased by about a factor of 6, and yet our manufacturing output has only increased by a factor of 4, so in reality has decreased.

And no, a trade war does NOT make things more expensive in the long run, but cheaper.
A trade war only makes foreign imports more expensive, but if you instead buy locally, the increase in production reduces cost, and the increased local revenue allows the local produces to buy more of what you are selling as well.

A good example if solar.
We used to be the main source of solar exports.
The Chinese have been cheating, dumping below costs, US solar has pretty much disappeared, and now China can charge us whatever they want because we don't make it any more.

 

[jc456]

I can agree with that to a point, but Trump's behaviors sure do add drama to the process.
.

They do more than add drama, they make it impossible for the leaders of other nations to give in.

Trump as a big shot in RE could bully all his people around Leaders of countries will not look weak to their people and trump doesn't realize it yet but he's in a different league now Not many leaders will take his crap

He was not even very good at that. Trump Inc did not really take off till it was reorganized as a holding company and Trump stopped making business decisions. The thing that Trump has been most successful at is selling himself and his name.

He tried to bully his way into Atlantic City by building the biggest and fanciest casino...that did not work out so well.

most every car manufacturer in this country has lost money. to make blanket statements against trump and his ability to lose money is funny as shit. One sometimes learns the most by failures. From Winston Churchill

I did not make a blanket statement about Trump and his ability to lose money, I pointed out a specific example of him trying to bully his way in and it failed.

Do try and keep up so I do not have to cover things twice.

Riiiiight

 

[Kosh]

As new tariffs take hold, more see negative than positive impact for the U.S.

77% dems say bad thing.

The poll doesn't differentiate tariffs on countries with manipulated currency and below cost prices, but it still strikes me as odd. The gop is now isolationist.

And look at the break between college and non-college educated. And white grads and non-grads

Strange days indeed.

More proof that the far left does not understand anything beyond their religious narratives.

Tariff Act of 1789 | Encyclopedia.com

 

[jc456]

IMHO the Chinese will sell our debt first before giving in ,,,

Yeah, that's a card they hold. They won't just sit there and take it, and yet they are on the weaker end of this, and they're nothing if not pragmatic.

I know what Trump is trying to do, but holy shit, this better be resolved fairly soon.
.

it's a game of chicken and it was needed.

Why?

Give some specific reasons with actual facts attached as to why it was needed?

Trade needed to be fixed because we not only have a huge trade deficit that physically makes us less wealthy every single years, but by undercutting our production, we lose the means of being self sufficient any more, and make ourselves much more vulnerable to being extorted in the future.

Trade wars do not harm the US any more because we don't export much any more anyway, and we ARE the single best market in the world, spending the most.

We will always win any trade war, and the trade imbalance has to be stopped as soon as possible.

Thank you for your response.

I will say I do not agree with any of it.

First off, a trade deficit in and of itself is not a bad thing. I do not know about you, but I have a "massive" trade deficit with my local grocery store(s). In all my years shopping with them I give them money and they give me goods in return. Never once has a single store bought any of my goods. Does that make me less wealthy than if I grew/raised all of my own food? I actually think it is just the opposite because if I did that I would not have time to work the job I do, which pays me way better than growing/raising my own food would.

The US is in the same boat, we buy things from other places because it is more expedient to do so.

I have a hard time looking at the economic numbers and seeing how we are so bad off due to our trade policies...

4% unemployment...More jobs than people to fill them...108 straight months of economic expansion, the 2nd longest in our nations history

You say that trade wars do not hurt the US, I disagree with that as well. For one, an extended trade war makes things more expensive to buy, when Trump puts a tariff on a product, that is a tax that the person buying it pays. I work in the Ag industry and I can tell you that the growers and ranchers do not agree with your view on the damage from trade wars. Every industry publication we receive talks about almost nothing but that right now. Even the Sec of Ag has admitted it will hurt the Ag industry and is trying to find a way to ease the pain.

Then there is the, in my opinion myth of loss of manufacturing in this country. According to the National Association of Manufactures, our manufactured exports have quadrupled in the last 25 years years, that does not sound like we are losing anything. Also, something I did not know till I looked further into this topic, in 2015 we exported more manufactured goods than we imported, giving us a manufactured goods surplus for the year. We do not hear the POTUS or the other tariff hawks talk about that ever. Top 20 Facts About Manufacturing | NAM

Also, according to the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 percent of the jobs lost in manufacturing since 2000 have been to technological change, mostly automation and only 15 percent have been shipped overseas.

This is from the StLouis Fred...this is US manufacturing output since 1987...with a couple dips during recession, it has been going up steadily, so again what is being lost?

View attachment 206181
Manufacturing Sector: Real Output

Don’t all their employees buy gas? Eat out? Use water, utilities, pay taxes? Support the community. Buy material for projects inside the store, trucking. Dude, you know shit.

How about giving coupons?