72% of Americans Back Israel's Rafah Operation, 78% Want [Genocidal-palestine] Hamas Removed

[pknopp]

The answer may be too horrific to verbalize.

And I'm not so sure that 78% is actually supporting that.

Sadly I may be wrong.

 

[pknopp]

Reducing the fighting force or the will of the fighting force down to the extent that they no longer have the capacity to continue the conflict.

I noted why I do not believe they are reducing the will.

Eliminating all infrastructure which provides the support to attack Israel.

Continued supervision to prevent the re-building of the fighting force and the infrastructure.

De-radicalization of the idea that killing Israelis (Jews) and/or trying to eliminate the Israeli State is something to be valued or possible.

I'm not sure that mass killing teaches others with nothing to lose that killing is wrong.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And I'm not so sure that 78% is actually supporting that.

Sadly I may be wrong.

Whatever the cost, Israel really has no choice.

 

[pknopp]

Whatever the cost, Israel really has no choice.

I believe there are better ways but people prefer violence.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I believe there are better ways but people prefer violence.

What better wars?

 

[pknopp]

What better wars?

Neither seem to be happy until the other side is gone. That is never going to happen. So they just kill and kill each other. It makes no sense to me.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Neither seem to be happy until the other side is gone. That is never going to happen. So they just kill and kill each other. It makes no sense to me.

That's not true. Israel has tried several times to reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians, but they have rejected all efforts. In 2000, Israel offered them 93% of the territories, an overpass under their control connecting the West Bank and Gaza and joint control of east Jerusalem, and they responded with the second intifada, and in 2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza in an effort to get negotiations restarted, have made it plain that nothing will satisfy them but the destruction of Israel.

 

[Shusha]

I noted why I do not believe they are reducing the will.

The will to continue fighting. Not the will to keep trying to destroy Israel and kill Jews/Israelis. That is item 4.

If nothing will eliminate the will for Hamas fighters to fight, well, then ...

I'm not sure that mass killing teaches others with nothing to lose that killing is wrong.

The goal in step 1 is not to teach them that "killing is wrong". (Although it is FASCINATING that you think that the people of Gaza need to learn that "killing is wrong".) It is to teach them that invading Israel and killing Jews is going to bring a ton of pain and inconvenience and a whole lot of setbacks and loss of agency.

 

[pknopp]

That's not true. Israel has tried several times to reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians, but they have rejected all efforts.

Yes but they constantly prod them.

Timeline: the humanitarian impact of the Gaza blockade | Oxfam International

In 2000, Israel offered them 93% of the territories, an overpass under their control connecting the West Bank and Gaza and joint control of east Jerusalem, and they responded with the second intifada, and in 2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza in an effort to get negotiations restarted, have made it plain that nothing will satisfy them but the destruction of Israel.

Despite what some seem to think, I am not saying either side is not guilty over the issues.

 

[pknopp]

The will to continue fighting. Not the will to keep trying to destroy Israel and kill Jews/Israelis. That is item 4.

If nothing will eliminate the will for Hamas fighters to fight, well, then ...

The goal in step 1 is not to teach them that "killing is wrong". (Although it is FASCINATING that you think that the people of Gaza need to learn that "killing is wrong".) It is to teach them that invading Israel and killing Jews is going to bring a ton of pain and inconvenience and a whole lot of setbacks and loss of agency.

By mass slaughter.

 

[Shusha]

By mass slaughter.

Well, no. By precision removal of the threat. And supervision. And re-education.

 

[pknopp]

Well, no. By precision removal of the threat. And supervision. And re-education.

Palestine is never going to allow Israel to control their lives.

There is no such thing as precision removal.

 

[Shusha]

There is no such thing as precision removal.

Of course there is. Israel is actually rather good at it. Despite Hamas' desire to optimize the deaths of their own civilians.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes but they constantly prod them.

Timeline: the humanitarian impact of the Gaza blockade | Oxfam International




Despite what some seem to think, I am not saying either side is not guilty over the issues.

The Oxfam article is simply not true. The blockade on Gaza was only put in place after Hamas took over Gaza and was declaring it would continue to attack Israel until it was destroyed, the blockade only prevented Hamas from importing weapons and did not interfere with the functioning of the economy.

 

[Shusha]

Palestine is never going to allow Israel to control their lives.

Um. How is that working for them so far?

 

[pknopp]

Of course there is. Israel is actually rather good at it. Despite Hamas' desire to optimize the deaths of their own civilians.

It's where they live. No matter where the people go it gets bombed.

 

[pknopp]

The Oxfam article is simply not true. The blockade on Gaza was only put in place after Hamas took over Gaza and was declaring it would continue to attack Israel until it was destroyed, the blockade only prevented Hamas from importing weapons and did not interfere with the functioning of the economy.

It most certainly did. When you create a people with nothing to lose things get bad.

 

[Shusha]

It's where they live. No matter where the people go it gets bombed.

Alternatively, no matter where the IDF goes there are military objectives embedded with civilians. What is your solution to that complication?

 

[toomuchtime_]

It most certainly did. When you create a people with nothing to lose things get bad.

How could preventing Hamas from importing weapons possibly harm the economy? The economy is a wreck because the Palestinians spend their resources buying weapons and building tunnels under the cities instead of investing in the civilian infrastructure.

 

[pknopp]

Alternatively, no matter where the IDF goes there are military objectives embedded with civilians. What is your solution to that complication?

Quit believing the solution is in killing each other. It's pretty stupid and it's not working.