63% of Americans Do Not Want Debt Ceiling Raised CBS News/New York Times

[Toro]

That's the lie you've all bought into innit? What would be catastrophic is to continue doing what we are doing. I'm not an expert not by a long shot but here's what my common sense tells me.

You've heard me say it before. We're a 50/50 nation with a progressive tax system. The takers will soon outnumber the givers. The unemployment rate is 9.2% (more than likely it's higher). That decreases revenues. Default or not, when the takers outnumber the givers it's all over. You should take your dollars and run. A country that relies on socialism ain't gonna stand. The wealthy Americans alread have their contingency plans ready. Class warfare rarely works either. Misguided Misguided Misguided.. and then of course there's the hypocrisy of obiedoodle. When he was a Senator he said "raising the debt ceiling is a sign of failed leadership." Did you believe him then? or now? I believe him NEVER.

Willow, I like you, but I think this is delusional. I think you, like most conservatives, are so wrapped up in your intense dislike of the man and his policies, you cannot even fathom that your actions could be tremendously harmful to this country. You can strongly disagree with Obama but realize that not raising the debt ceiling could be enormously damaging. Most of my colleagues do not support Obama but think not raising the debt ceiling is just nuts.

I could be dead wrong on this, but I think a default could set off a chain of events that could be much worse than the bankruptcy of Lehman. If the debt ceiling is not raised, I am getting every single dollar I have out of America. Now, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but there is zero upside to betting that something good will happen from this over the next while and huge unknown downside. I'm not sticking around to find out.

 

[elvis]

Nobody knows. That's the problem.

Here's what I think could happen in the market. August 2 rolls by and nothing happens. Maybe you get a bit of a sell-off but the market stabilizes as the two sides keep talking. As each day goes by, the market waits and watches, but doesn't do much. Then, one day, the market falls off a cliff and the Dow is down 500-700 points off what seemingly is no news. The bond market craters and interest rates spike hard. That creates a cascading affect and we get another melt-down. When Congress initially failed to pass TARP, the Dow dropped by over 700 points. I can see a repeat of that.

When I think of Really Big Things, things that are bigger than a the collapse of the Tech bubble and the Financial Crisis, I think of a currency crisis. To me, that's the denouement, the mother of all Big Financial Crises. And defaulting could precipitate a currency crisis. That's why I think this debt ceiling is fucking insane.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But I'm not sticking around to see what happens.

Toro old Sun, I give you my personal guarantee, we will not default.

let me ask you, IF you HAD to bet, would bet yes or no? absent a deal?

Mr. Trajan, my friend.

Let me tell you something I learned a long time ago in this business. There are no guarantees. There are only probabilities. I've seen too many guys get carried out by being too certain something would happen. Truth is, in a complex and highly interconnected world, nobody has any idea what will happen.

If I had to bet, I would bet we default.

 

[Toro]

Toro old Sun, I give you my personal guarantee, we will not default.

let me ask you, IF you HAD to bet, would bet yes or no? absent a deal?

Mr. Trajan, my friend.

Let me tell you something I learned a long time ago in this business. There are no guarantees. There are only probabilities. I've seen too many guys get carried out by being too certain something would happen. Truth is, in a complex and highly interconnected world, nobody has any idea what will happen.

If I had to bet, I would bet we default.

touche'.

that sounds like what my old man used to say, (a sometime bookie), 'the half point killed more guys than world war 2'

Actually I am surprised, you would bet if no deal we would default? ....that surprises me and well chills me a bit.

But, I just don't see it, they have had time,Timmy has changed the number what? 3- 4 times? they are preparing for the worst right now and, the number crunchers at treasury, the gnomes that stay thru all the elections etc.

It will as I said be painful..but, I just don't see it. I HOPE we don't have to test the waters ....

Capital is skittish. The country doesn't even have to default. Capital just has to believe it will default and it will react. Nobody believes that we will default now. But many others will act like I would if we believed it could happen, and that is to get our money out of the country ASAP. If we're wrong, no harm done and we'll come back. Not much will be lost. If we're right, everything could be lost, so no point sticking around for that.

 

[Modbert]

Willow, I like you, but I think this is delusional. I think you, like most conservatives, are so wrapped up in your intense dislike of the man and his policies, you cannot even fathom that your actions could be tremendously harmful to this country. You can strongly disagree with Obama but realize that not raising the debt ceiling could be enormously damaging. Most of my colleagues do not support Obama but think not raising the debt ceiling is just nuts.

Sums up the current opposition to raising the debt ceiling perfectly.

 

[Synthaholic]

At least the Bushbots had the balls to call Bush out when he fucked up... this crowd will never do that.

That's a blatant lie or just a large amount of naive going on. Conservatives supported Bush in large numbers, even when he was about to leave office.

Correct. The ONLY time they called out Bush was when he wanted to appoint his cleaning lady to the Supreme Court.

 

[Synthaholic]

At least the Bushbots had the balls to call Bush out when he fucked up... this crowd will never do that.

That's a blatant lie or just a large amount of naive going on. Conservatives supported Bush in large numbers, even when he was about to leave office.

Supporting a President is not the same as agreeing and supporting his policies.
I disagreed with the tax refund he gave people...I knew it wouldnt work and I said so to anyone I spoke with.....it was a typical p[olitical ploy...an attempt to leave office with a higher approval trating.

I disagreed with Tarp.

I disagreed with his amnesty ideas.

BUT...I admired his leadership. The man did not whine and cry...he didnt blame anyone...he didnt argue when people called him a liar...he didnt whine when Reid said "the war is lost"...

He let the buck stop with him.

He was not a great policy maker...he was a great leader.

I see Obama as not a great ploicy maker...and by no means a leader.

Yet he still gets the left touting him as the greatest.

Fuck, that's funny!

Bush didn't even let the buck stop at Scooter Libby!

 

[Synthaholic]

Supporting a President is not the same as agreeing and supporting his policies.

Except they did. It showed in his approval rating numbers. You know what that is, right? When people say whether or not they approve a President and the policies he is enacting.

None of the conservatives were scraping the "Bush/Cheney" and "W - Still The President" stickers off their trucks, that's for damn sure.

 

[WillowTree]

That's the lie you've all bought into innit? What would be catastrophic is to continue doing what we are doing. I'm not an expert not by a long shot but here's what my common sense tells me.

You've heard me say it before. We're a 50/50 nation with a progressive tax system. The takers will soon outnumber the givers. The unemployment rate is 9.2% (more than likely it's higher). That decreases revenues. Default or not, when the takers outnumber the givers it's all over. You should take your dollars and run. A country that relies on socialism ain't gonna stand. The wealthy Americans alread have their contingency plans ready. Class warfare rarely works either. Misguided Misguided Misguided.. and then of course there's the hypocrisy of obiedoodle. When he was a Senator he said "raising the debt ceiling is a sign of failed leadership." Did you believe him then? or now? I believe him NEVER.

Willow, I like you, but I think this is delusional. I think you, like most conservatives, are so wrapped up in your intense dislike of the man and his policies, you cannot even fathom that your actions could be tremendously harmful to this country. You can strongly disagree with Obama but realize that not raising the debt ceiling could be enormously damaging. Most of my colleagues do not support Obama but think not raising the debt ceiling is just nuts.

I could be dead wrong on this, but I think a default could set off a chain of events that could be much worse than the bankruptcy of Lehman. If the debt ceiling is not raised, I am getting every single dollar I have out of America. Now, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but there is zero upside to betting that something good will happen from this over the next while and huge unknown downside. I'm not sticking around to find out.

You didn't answer my basic question did you? Was he lying then or is he lying now? Oh and btw,, we've been told by da man and his chicago co horts many many times that there will be dire catastropic consequences if we didn't do it his way.. how's that working out doyathink?

 

[Patriot214]

If America had $1 for every time a democrat told the people they were ignorant and need the Government to solve their problems, we could pay off our debts.

 

[Synthaholic]

43% of Republicans disapproved of Bush by the end of his term. That doesn't exactly cry "we love bush!" to me.
Bush's Final Approval Rating: 22 Percent - CBS News

By then, they realized that he shit the bed on running the country. Plus, he had just approved TARP.

It sure didn't take long for them to get amnesia and start blaming everything on Blacky McBlackman, did it?

 

[skookerasbil]

and if we keep raising the ceiling............all will be well. Pain is coming s0ns..........sooner or later, the pain is coming for all of us.

Let be clear on one thing though.......no politician that represents a big handout district is serious about ANY spending cuts.

 

[WillowTree]

Willow, I like you, but I think this is delusional. I think you, like most conservatives, are so wrapped up in your intense dislike of the man and his policies, you cannot even fathom that your actions could be tremendously harmful to this country. You can strongly disagree with Obama but realize that not raising the debt ceiling could be enormously damaging. Most of my colleagues do not support Obama but think not raising the debt ceiling is just nuts.

Sums up the current opposition to raising the debt ceiling perfectly.

No it doesn't. It's just more fear tactics. More of what we've been experiencing for 2 1/2 long years.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

So is Massive Debt and raising Debt Limits good for the children or not? I remember a time when this President and many Democrats said it wasn't. So why is it suddenly such a sacred patriotic duty to raise the Debt Limit now? Democrats seem to be lost on this one. They've lost even more credibility.

 

[Modbert]

So is Massive Debt and raising Debt Limits good for the children or not? I remember a time when this President and many Democrats said it wasn't. So why is it suddenly such a sacred patriotic duty to raise the Debt Limit now? Democrats seem to be lost on this one. They've lost even more credibility.

Just going to keep spamming?

 

[bripat9643]

Probably not. I agree that the majority of Americans oppose raising the debt limit. I also think that doesn't change the fact Democratic voters know more about this subject, and that the public as a whole is pretty ignorant about it.

The fact that you think that only shows that you're an idiot. Democrat voters are morons. They have proven it over and over again.

 

[skookerasbil]

All people have to do is simplify things a bit to get what's coming if the can gets kicked down the road some more.

Just think of the family that runs up debt to such a degree that they end up losing everything........the whole fcukking family is decimated. No house..........no more lines of credit. Had they tightened the belt a year or two earlier and made some sacrifices, maybe the kids have some kind of future.

You hold the line on the ceiling..........some indeed get hurt. You kick the can? Those same people still get hurt except then, EVERYBODY gets fcukked and there are no options. Idealistic assholes havnt stopped to consider how life would be without their fancy gay iPhone, no cable TV and sitting telling stories at night by candlelight.

Liberal minds never have been very good and understanding that life is ALL about weighing necessary tradeoffs. This budget mess is about one choice: between suck and suckier. The liberal mind thinks there is a "solution" to everything.

 

[bripat9643]

The fact is, the Federal Government promised and entered into contracts with a variety of people and vendors and those bills are now due. Sure, maybe we could get enough cash to pay the interest on the debt, but we would STOP paying all our other bills and legal obligations. That's like you deciding to pay your mortgage but not your utility bills. Would there be ZERO repercussions? No way.

Fact is, if we pay the debt and don't pay everything else, that hurts our credit rating and our interest rates go up, which means home owners rates go up. How is that good for the country?

We all know that most of the money goes to useless tics who have no contractual arrangement with the government.

only liberal turds fooled by scare tactics like the stuff you post.

 

[DontBeStupid]

You didn't answer my basic question did you? Was he lying then or is he lying now?

He wasn't lying either time. This has been brought up and talked about to death. Why are you still asking about it?

In 2006, the economy was humming along nicely and unemployment was normal and THAT should have been the time to talk about debt reduction and deficit management. But the GOP and Bush didn't want to then, so the ceiling got raised with zero discussion.

Now, we are coming out of one of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression and unemployment is high and now is the time when a country needs to borrow. Trying to reduce the deficit and the debt now is ludicrous. It was tried in 1937 and had terrible results. Why do now?

See the difference yet? This isn't 2006.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

So is Massive Debt and raising Debt Limits good for the children or not? I remember a time when this President and many Democrats said it wasn't. So why is it suddenly such a sacred patriotic duty to raise the Debt Limit now? Democrats seem to be lost on this one. They've lost even more credibility.

Just going to keep spamming?

Yea right. You're one of the more well known spammers on this board. Hey,how about another one of your boring trollish "I Hate Palin" or "I Hate Bachmann" threads? You never seem to be out of those huh? So yea,i'll just take your petty insult as a compliment. Can't wait for another one of your "I Hate Palin" threads. You're way over-due for one huh? Such original stuff. See ya.

 

[Synthaholic]

So is Massive Debt and raising Debt Limits good for the children or not? I remember a time when this President and many Democrats said it wasn't. So why is it suddenly such a sacred patriotic duty to raise the Debt Limit now? Democrats seem to be lost on this one. They've lost even more credibility.

Just going to keep spamming?

He does it all the time. It's all he's got. He can only remember one Rushbo talking point per day.