50 years after "I have a dream"....A Progress Report

[DiamondDave]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

I have seen it in my own lifetime where jobs that were once almost exclusively filled by white males became open to women and minorities. When I started working in the early 70s, most women were channelled into being nurses, teachers, secretaries, beauticians and cashiers
Now, nobody gives a second thought to women in a wide variety of professions

Affirmative action worked

It worked in so much as having government sanctioned racism and racist practice

 

[rightwinger]

This is a race-baiting thread and you good folks just take the bait hook, line and sinker.

You can't win with these people. Wise up

What specifically is race baiting? Just because it discusses race?

 

[Old Rocks]

Affirmative action never works and is a stain upon this country. Choosing skin color over someone more qualified is not progress.

Didn't bother the whites to do it to the Africans, Chinese, Mexicans etc., over the last 250 years.

What proof do you have to back up that statement?

You fucking idiot. The reservations that the Native Americans were forced onto, the massecres of these people at Wounded Knee and Sand Creek, and so many other unnamed places. What we did to the Americans of Japanese Ancestory in World War 2. The treatment of the Chinese in the West, the treatment of people of Mexican Ancestory in California and Texas. Lynching in the South, and Jim Crow laws.

Our treatment of our minorities is a shame to the ideals this nation was founded on.

 

[NightFox]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

There's nothing to demonstrate that it was necessary and nothing to demonstrate that it worked. What affirmative action was/is the imposition of morality via the use of force which hasn't been shown to diminish or mitigate the bigotry of anybody, in fact it most often achieves nothing more than creating resentment and propogating injustice.

The goal should never be to impose morality via the use of force the goal should always be to demonstrate to individuals that their attitudes are immoral and unjust through negotiation, persuasion and if necessary non-cooperation. Sure it takes a lot more work but in the end it is a far more effective and a far more just methodology than simply violating the rights of individuals and threatening them with violence if they fail to comply.

 

[rightwinger]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

I have seen it in my own lifetime where jobs that were once almost exclusively filled by white males became open to women and minorities. When I started working in the early 70s, most women were channelled into being nurses, teachers, secretaries, beauticians and cashiers
Now, nobody gives a second thought to women in a wide variety of professions

Affirmative action worked

It worked in so much as having government sanctioned racism and racist practice

In historical context, Affirmative Action was necessary and legal

After Civil Rights legislation was passed, the logical next response of the racists was.....You may claim they are equal but you can't make me hire them

The government stepped in and said...If you want to do business with the government, you have to meet affirmative action standards

 

[rightwinger]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

There's nothing to demonstrate that it was necessary and nothing to demonstrate that it worked. What affirmative action was/is the imposition of morality via the use of force which hasn't been shown to diminish or mitigate the bigotry of anybody, in fact it most often achieves nothing more than creating resentment and propogating injustice.

The goal should never be to impose morality via the use of force the goal should always be to demonstrate to individuals that their attitudes are immoral and unjust through negotiation, persuasion and if necessary non-cooperation. Sure it takes a lot more work but in the end it is a far more effective and a far more just methodology than simply violating the rights of individuals and threatening them with violence if they fail to comply.

One only has to walk through any workplace in America to see that it worked

Women benefitted the most

 

[Old Rocks]

At some point the fact that great grandpa was shot in the head in the cotton field for objecting to the Massa's son raping his wife can no longer be used as an excuse to be unemployed, undereducated, and burdened by 15 children birthed to 9 different women. You should have overcome by now.

At some point you must realize that using the worst of a minority to object to the fact that there are blacks that are over achieviers is no differant than if I were to use an incestous white father to label you.

There are a number of sub-cultures in the US that create severe problems for their children through their worship of willfull ignorance.

 

[DiamondDave]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

I have seen it in my own lifetime where jobs that were once almost exclusively filled by white males became open to women and minorities. When I started working in the early 70s, most women were channelled into being nurses, teachers, secretaries, beauticians and cashiers
Now, nobody gives a second thought to women in a wide variety of professions

Affirmative action worked

It worked in so much as having government sanctioned racism and racist practice

In historical context, Affirmative Action was necessary and legal

After Civil Rights legislation was passed, the logical next response of the racists was.....You may claim they are equal but you can't make me hire them

The government stepped in and said...If you want to do business with the government, you have to meet affirmative action standards

It was enacted by government..

That does not keep it from being a bullshit racist policy that was used for nothing more or less than pandering for votes.. It had and has nothing to do with equality in treatment.. it is, in fact, the opposite.. and promotes racism of a different color

If it were about equality and judging people solely on their qualifications, actions, etc, it would not enable special privilege at all... but it would ensure equality in treatment and enact law to prosecute if ANY racial preference was used or discovered

 

[007]

Affirmative action never works and is a stain upon this country. Choosing skin color over someone more qualified is not progress.

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Yep.. not what affirmative action is about at all

Dr King was talking about equal opportunity and equal access

Keep in mind that this speech was made in 1963 and Dr King was killed in 1968. Affirmative action programs were already in place and Dr King fully supported them.

King Advocated Special Programs That Went Beyond Affirmative Action

That very well may be, but that is a far cry from what affirmative action actually is.

AA is giving special priviledges and lowering standards for someone based on race, so they no longer have to compete for higher learning and it's rewards on an even playing field with the rest of society. It is, a DISGRACE and an OUTRAGE, because what it does is very plainly imply, that BLACKS and other minorities are either too STUPID or too LAZY, or BOTH, to compete with everyone else intellectually. If I was a black person, I'd be ASHAMED of AA.

 

[martybegan]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

I have seen it in my own lifetime where jobs that were once almost exclusively filled by white males became open to women and minorities. When I started working in the early 70s, most women were channelled into being nurses, teachers, secretaries, beauticians and cashiers
Now, nobody gives a second thought to women in a wide variety of professions

Affirmative action worked

It worked in so much as having government sanctioned racism and racist practice

In historical context, Affirmative Action was necessary and legal

After Civil Rights legislation was passed, the logical next response of the racists was.....You may claim they are equal but you can't make me hire them

The government stepped in and said...If you want to do business with the government, you have to meet affirmative action standards

No, what they said is ANY business has to meet the standards when it comes to hiring. What it did to government contractors is force them to hire minority subcontractors, regardless of the overall quality of said subcontractors.

If they limited it to companies that perform government contracts, there wouldnt be an issue.

 

[martybegan]

Affirmative action was necessary and it worked

There's nothing to demonstrate that it was necessary and nothing to demonstrate that it worked. What affirmative action was/is the imposition of morality via the use of force which hasn't been shown to diminish or mitigate the bigotry of anybody, in fact it most often achieves nothing more than creating resentment and propogating injustice.

The goal should never be to impose morality via the use of force the goal should always be to demonstrate to individuals that their attitudes are immoral and unjust through negotiation, persuasion and if necessary non-cooperation. Sure it takes a lot more work but in the end it is a far more effective and a far more just methodology than simply violating the rights of individuals and threatening them with violence if they fail to comply.

One only has to walk through any workplace in America to see that it worked

Women benefitted the most

So the ends justify the means, and replacing one form of racism/sexism with another is acceptable if the proper race/sex is the one getting the shaft.

 

[007]

This country has bent over backwards for blacks for long enough. It's time black people step up to the plate, knock off the gang/thug BS, clean up their act, get off their ass, LEARN something and become decent, upstanding citizens without everyone else having to tip toe around them in fear of being called RACIST. This shit has gone on LONG ENOUGH. There are PLENTY of examples of blacks achieving WHATEVER they want, so this tired old story of prejudice and closed doors just doesn't hold water anymore.

 

[thanatos144]

50 Years later and black people still are slaves to the democrat party that is keeping them in Ghetto pens, Keeping them uneducated, Killing them off with abortion, and keeping them from being the strong people they are. ... Dr. King would be ashamed of the horrors done in his name.

 

[rightwinger]

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Yep.. not what affirmative action is about at all

Dr King was talking about equal opportunity and equal access

Keep in mind that this speech was made in 1963 and Dr King was killed in 1968. Affirmative action programs were already in place and Dr King fully supported them.

King Advocated Special Programs That Went Beyond Affirmative Action

That very well may be, but that is a far cry from what affirmative action is.

AA is giving special priviledges and lowering standards for someone based on race, so they no longer have to compete for higher learning and it's rewards on an even playing field with the rest of society. It is, a DISGRACE and an OUTRAGE, because what it does is very plainly imply, that BLACKS and other minorities are either too STUPID or too LAZY, or BOTH, to compete with everyone else intellectually. If I was a black person, I'd be ASHAMED of AA.

As a white male I managed to live through it

When I started working in the early 70s, Affirmative Action was much like you said. I saw blacks, women and hispanics being elevated into positions they were not ready to fill. They became poster children for the evils of affirmative action.
But then a funny thing happened. More and more women and blacks became successful in management and labor positions that we previously scoffed at. Women truck drivers? Black executives? They lack the "basics" to do these jobs
Today, nobody looks twice at white males not doing every job of importance in our society

We have affirmative action to thank

 

[martybegan]

Dr King was talking about equal opportunity and equal access

Keep in mind that this speech was made in 1963 and Dr King was killed in 1968. Affirmative action programs were already in place and Dr King fully supported them.

King Advocated Special Programs That Went Beyond Affirmative Action

That very well may be, but that is a far cry from what affirmative action is.

AA is giving special priviledges and lowering standards for someone based on race, so they no longer have to compete for higher learning and it's rewards on an even playing field with the rest of society. It is, a DISGRACE and an OUTRAGE, because what it does is very plainly imply, that BLACKS and other minorities are either too STUPID or too LAZY, or BOTH, to compete with everyone else intellectually. If I was a black person, I'd be ASHAMED of AA.

As a white male I managed to live through it

When I started working in the early 70s, Affirmative Action was much like you said. I saw blacks, women and hispanics being elevated into positions they were not ready to fill. They became poster children for the evils of affirmative action.
But then a funny thing happened. More and more women and blacks became successful in management and labor positions that we previously scoffed at. Women truck drivers? Black executives? They lack the "basics" to do these jobs
Today, nobody looks twice at white males not doing every job of importance in our society

We have affirmative action to thank

So the inital ones that were brought in via AA were failures, yet the ones later on, who probably were actually qualified for the jobs regardless of AA are the ones we should judge the sucess of AA on?

Logic fail.

 

[Old Rocks]

WW2. Average American knew that the blacks just did not have the mental abilities to be fighter pilots. Then came the Tuskogee Airmen.

Affirmative action was a boon not only to blacks, but to Native Americans, and women. It was and is a very successful program, and that is precisely why the 'Conservatives' hate it.

 

[deltex1]

At some point the fact that great grandpa was shot in the head in the cotton field for objecting to the Massa's son raping his wife can no longer be used as an excuse to be unemployed, undereducated, and burdened by 15 children birthed to 9 different women. You should have overcome by now.

At some point you must realize that using the worst of a minority to object to the fact that there are blacks that are over achieviers is no differant than if I were to use an incestous white father to label you.

There are a number of sub-cultures in the US that create severe problems for their children through their worship of willfull ignorance.

Au contraire mon frere....I admire minority achievers...I live between two of them...

 

[rightwinger]

That very well may be, but that is a far cry from what affirmative action is.

AA is giving special priviledges and lowering standards for someone based on race, so they no longer have to compete for higher learning and it's rewards on an even playing field with the rest of society. It is, a DISGRACE and an OUTRAGE, because what it does is very plainly imply, that BLACKS and other minorities are either too STUPID or too LAZY, or BOTH, to compete with everyone else intellectually. If I was a black person, I'd be ASHAMED of AA.

As a white male I managed to live through it

When I started working in the early 70s, Affirmative Action was much like you said. I saw blacks, women and hispanics being elevated into positions they were not ready to fill. They became poster children for the evils of affirmative action.
But then a funny thing happened. More and more women and blacks became successful in management and labor positions that we previously scoffed at. Women truck drivers? Black executives? They lack the "basics" to do these jobs
Today, nobody looks twice at white males not doing every job of importance in our society

We have affirmative action to thank

So the inital ones that were brought in via AA were failures, yet the ones later on, who probably were actually qualified for the jobs regardless of AA are the ones we should judge the sucess of AA on?

Logic fail.

Not really

The early benificiaries of Affirmative Action were breaking new ground. They were not ready for it and the business culture was not prepared for it. Believe it or not, the old boy network took it pretty hard.

Not everyone failed and many actually did a good job. Made it easier for the next waves as they were more prepared for new workforce opportunities and the workforce was more accepting of those who were not white males

 

[thanatos144]

Hey is it a step forward that more black babies were killed in abortion then born in new york?

 

[thanatos144]

Is it a step forward that blacks now commit almost 70% of violent crime in the country according to THIS department of justice? Do you think Reverend King had this in mind when he made his speech?