50 years after "I have a dream"....A Progress Report

[thanatos144]

Is it a step forward that so many black men abandon their kids ?

 

[thanatos144]

Is it a step forward that most black children are living in single parents homes????

 

[thanatos144]

Do you think people who think this looks cool a step forward?

 

[deltex1]

Today marks 50 years since Dr Kings "I have a dream" speech. What has gone well and what hasn't

The Good

1. We have elected a black President
2. Affirmative Action has been effective. More black representation in politics, doctors, lawyers, corporate executives, military officers, teachers, astronauts, sports managers and executives
3. More integrated neighborhoods and schools
4. Acceptance of interracial marriages
5. A rise in the black middle class
6. Elimination of laws and policies that exclude or segregate blacks

The Bad

1. A disintegration of the black family
2. A black culture that has discouraged advancement, education and strong familiy values
3. Gang and drug culture
4. Surge in incarceration rates of black males
5. 70% of blacks being born to single mothers
6. There is still prejudice. It is no longer openly expressed, but lingers in the shadows

Move #1 "good" to "symbolic good"

 

[thanatos144]

Do you think Reverend king would be happy with people like Sharpton or Jackson? Or do you think he would be embarrassed that his people allowed themselves to be so easily manipulated by racists like them?

 

[Asclepias]

Dr King was talking about equal opportunity and equal access

Keep in mind that this speech was made in 1963 and Dr King was killed in 1968. Affirmative action programs were already in place and Dr King fully supported them.

King Advocated Special Programs That Went Beyond Affirmative Action

That very well may be, but that is a far cry from what affirmative action is.

AA is giving special priviledges and lowering standards for someone based on race, so they no longer have to compete for higher learning and it's rewards on an even playing field with the rest of society. It is, a DISGRACE and an OUTRAGE, because what it does is very plainly imply, that BLACKS and other minorities are either too STUPID or too LAZY, or BOTH, to compete with everyone else intellectually. If I was a black person, I'd be ASHAMED of AA.

As a white male I managed to live through it

When I started working in the early 70s, Affirmative Action was much like you said. I saw blacks, women and hispanics being elevated into positions they were not ready to fill. They became poster children for the evils of affirmative action.
But then a funny thing happened. More and more women and blacks became successful in management and labor positions that we previously scoffed at. Women truck drivers? Black executives? They lack the "basics" to do these jobs
Today, nobody looks twice at white males not doing every job of importance in our society

We have affirmative action to thank

I am conflicted about AA because it to me was a double edged sword. It gave Black Americans the opportunity to assume positions they had historically been denied. It crushed the ignorant assumption that Blacks were incapable of being successful in an integrated society. It was opportunity/experience and that is good if you believe in the effects of accomplishment. On the other hand it seems to have enraged some white men and escalated the racial problem even though it was underground and unspoken. This in turn bred more animosity and anger towards whites from the Black community. So now we have this dynamic where there is tension and racism brewing.

 

[martybegan]

WW2. Average American knew that the blacks just did not have the mental abilities to be fighter pilots. Then came the Tuskogee Airmen.

Affirmative action was a boon not only to blacks, but to Native Americans, and women. It was and is a very successful program, and that is precisely why the 'Conservatives' hate it.

If it was limited to government employees and companies that work on government contracts, that would be fine.

If it was limited to state schools i can see it being ok.

but when it is force implemented in the private sector, then there is an issue.

 

[martybegan]

That very well may be, but that is a far cry from what affirmative action is.

AA is giving special priviledges and lowering standards for someone based on race, so they no longer have to compete for higher learning and it's rewards on an even playing field with the rest of society. It is, a DISGRACE and an OUTRAGE, because what it does is very plainly imply, that BLACKS and other minorities are either too STUPID or too LAZY, or BOTH, to compete with everyone else intellectually. If I was a black person, I'd be ASHAMED of AA.

As a white male I managed to live through it

When I started working in the early 70s, Affirmative Action was much like you said. I saw blacks, women and hispanics being elevated into positions they were not ready to fill. They became poster children for the evils of affirmative action.
But then a funny thing happened. More and more women and blacks became successful in management and labor positions that we previously scoffed at. Women truck drivers? Black executives? They lack the "basics" to do these jobs
Today, nobody looks twice at white males not doing every job of importance in our society

We have affirmative action to thank

I am conflicted about AA because it to me was a double edged sword. It gave Black Americans the opportunity to assume positions they had historically been denied. It crushed the ignorant assumption that Blacks were incapable of being successful in an integrated society. It was opportunity/experience and that is good if you believe in the effects of accomplishment. On the other hand it seems to have enraged some white men and escalated the racial problem even though it was underground and unspoken. This in turn bred more animosity and anger towards whites from the Black community. So now we have this dynamic where there is tension and racism brewing.

What irriates me is that many on the left refuse even to admit that there are losers in this situation, i.e. the people passed over for jobs/school slots due to this.

 

[Defiant1]

Didn't bother the whites to do it to the Africans, Chinese, Mexicans etc., over the last 250 years.

What proof do you have to back up that statement?

You fucking idiot. The reservations that the Native Americans were forced onto, the massecres of these people at Wounded Knee and Sand Creek, and so many other unnamed places. What we did to the Americans of Japanese Ancestory in World War 2. The treatment of the Chinese in the West, the treatment of people of Mexican Ancestory in California and Texas. Lynching in the South, and Jim Crow laws.

Our treatment of our minorities is a shame to the ideals this nation was founded on.

You are referring to our government. The conversation I was having was in reference to AA and private employers. But thanks for the compliment.

 

[DGS49]

Challenge to the board: Find me a single law in a single state (or in Congress), that mandates "affirmative action," or its contemporary bastardization, "diversity."

And while embarking on this futile search (hint: there ain't any such laws), keep in mind that the legislatures reflect, by definition, the collective judgment of our society.

No, these counterproductive, useless programs were hatched in the United States Supreme Court, using an illegitimate tool that is sometimes referred to as "judicial activism." The Courts wanted the institution of "Affirmative Action," they lacked the power to create it, but they said, "Fuck it, we'll do it anyway."

And the court cases spawned regulations and contractual requirements that implemented AA in the public sector and for government contractors, and for institutions suckling at the various governments' teats.

It is both humorous and exasperating to see how colleges and universities continue to discriminate against caucasian Asian applicants, and to create benefits for "disadvantaged minorities," all the while pretending that they are not doing so.

But the late Dr. King (it is now presumed) wanted only that ALL people be judged and treated on the basis of their humanity and their abilities and the "content of their character." And the White Race said, "Cool. We can live with that."

But Affirmative Action created in the minority community the sense that "fairness" must of necessity entail equality of outcomes, which has decidedly not occurred. Despite the fact that tangible destructive impacts of racial prejudice are few are far between these days, they are pointing to the "Black" unemployment rate, incarceration rate, average household incomes, and so on, and whining that bigotry and discrimination still keep them back.

While the ones who do not have their heads up their asses are making out quite well on their own merits, thank you very much, because the government and corporate worlds in the US are HUNGRY for qualified and capable Blacks, women, and other minorities. Far from discriminating AGAINST them, they are begging for the qualified applicants that the Reverend MLK PROMISED "us."

It's fucking perverse.

 

[thanatos144]

Killing because they are bored.... Is that a step forward?

 

[rightwinger]

Today marks 50 years since Dr Kings "I have a dream" speech. What has gone well and what hasn't

The Good

1. We have elected a black President
2. Affirmative Action has been effective. More black representation in politics, doctors, lawyers, corporate executives, military officers, teachers, astronauts, sports managers and executives
3. More integrated neighborhoods and schools
4. Acceptance of interracial marriages
5. A rise in the black middle class
6. Elimination of laws and policies that exclude or segregate blacks

The Bad

1. A disintegration of the black family
2. A black culture that has discouraged advancement, education and strong familiy values
3. Gang and drug culture
4. Surge in incarceration rates of black males
5. 70% of blacks being born to single mothers
6. There is still prejudice. It is no longer openly expressed, but lingers in the shadows

Move #1 "good" to "symbolic good"

I'll stick with Good

 

[ClosedCaption]

Affirmative action worked. Not just for blacks but moreso for women. Dr King encouraged affirmative action policies. You help those who need help

Integration of our society was a direct result of the Civil Rights movement

Not all of our progress or lack thereof is because of government. Much of it is cultural

Affirmative action never works and is a stain upon this country. Choosing skin color over someone more qualified is not progress.

Didn't bother the whites to do it to the Africans, Chinese, Mexicans etc., over the last 250 years.

Then they wonder why those groups are behind whites when they had a 250 year head start

 

[Asclepias]

As a white male I managed to live through it

When I started working in the early 70s, Affirmative Action was much like you said. I saw blacks, women and hispanics being elevated into positions they were not ready to fill. They became poster children for the evils of affirmative action.
But then a funny thing happened. More and more women and blacks became successful in management and labor positions that we previously scoffed at. Women truck drivers? Black executives? They lack the "basics" to do these jobs
Today, nobody looks twice at white males not doing every job of importance in our society

We have affirmative action to thank

I am conflicted about AA because it to me was a double edged sword. It gave Black Americans the opportunity to assume positions they had historically been denied. It crushed the ignorant assumption that Blacks were incapable of being successful in an integrated society. It was opportunity/experience and that is good if you believe in the effects of accomplishment. On the other hand it seems to have enraged some white men and escalated the racial problem even though it was underground and unspoken. This in turn bred more animosity and anger towards whites from the Black community. So now we have this dynamic where there is tension and racism brewing.

What irriates me is that many on the left refuse even to admit that there are losers in this situation, i.e. the people passed over for jobs/school slots due to this.

I think the whole unspoken truth about AA is that some people are going to suffer individually for the collective good of society. To most people that sounds good in theory until they dont get that job because of a quota.

 

[martybegan]

I am conflicted about AA because it to me was a double edged sword. It gave Black Americans the opportunity to assume positions they had historically been denied. It crushed the ignorant assumption that Blacks were incapable of being successful in an integrated society. It was opportunity/experience and that is good if you believe in the effects of accomplishment. On the other hand it seems to have enraged some white men and escalated the racial problem even though it was underground and unspoken. This in turn bred more animosity and anger towards whites from the Black community. So now we have this dynamic where there is tension and racism brewing.

What irriates me is that many on the left refuse even to admit that there are losers in this situation, i.e. the people passed over for jobs/school slots due to this.

I think the whole unspoken truth about AA is that some people are going to suffer individually for the collective good of society. To most people that sounds good in theory until they dont get that job because of a quota.

But is taking discrimination and simply reversing it really good for society?

 

[Defiant1]

Affirmative action never works and is a stain upon this country. Choosing skin color over someone more qualified is not progress.

Didn't bother the whites to do it to the Africans, Chinese, Mexicans etc., over the last 250 years.

Then they wonder why those groups are behind whites when they had a 250 year head start

Unfair to start somewhere in the middle. Start at the beginning, blacks or browns, if you prefer, had 10s of thousands of years head start.

 

[ClosedCaption]

What irriates me is that many on the left refuse even to admit that there are losers in this situation, i.e. the people passed over for jobs/school slots due to this.

I think the whole unspoken truth about AA is that some people are going to suffer individually for the collective good of society. To most people that sounds good in theory until they dont get that job because of a quota.

But is taking discrimination and simply reversing it really good for society?

Yes but white women take advantage of AA more than anyone else. Hows that for racism? No matter how many times that's pointed out I feel like white guys need SOMEONE to blame because it has to be the fault of some other race..

 

[martybegan]

I think the whole unspoken truth about AA is that some people are going to suffer individually for the collective good of society. To most people that sounds good in theory until they dont get that job because of a quota.

But is taking discrimination and simply reversing it really good for society?

Yes but white women take advantage of AA more than anyone else. Hows that for racism? No matter how many times that's pointed out I feel like white guys need SOMEONE to blame because it has to be the fault of some other race..

No in that case it would be sexism then. Still wrong.

 

[bendog]

The problem for poor african americans today is as much failure to study, do homework, finish classes as it is about lack of opportunity. Overall, kids of the working poor have less public support in education, but that cuts across race.

AA is really meaningless for them. Private employers are more or less immune to mandates, and instead want a work force that reflects their customer base, and the base's wishes. Top colleges aren't recruiting black kids who aren't high achievers. A black kid with a solid HS resume will get a very nice tuition offer. A black kid with no HS resume will be flipping burgers or entering the penal system.

 

[Katzndogz]

Martin Luther King gave a speech that was never taken seriously. He had plagiarized the speech, he was an alcoholic and a world class whoremaster. At the time of his death he was under investigation for embezzling funds from the Ebenezer Baptist Church that he pastored. The messenger corrupted the message with the result that it was nice words, like favorite song written by a crack head but you just don't think about it past that.