48%...

[Darkwind]

Of course you don't have any hard numbers or specifics here.

I believe you chastised someone else here, for pulling numbers out of their ass not too long ago?

Except I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. Difference between using statistics that are not too specific and getting the population of the U.S wrong.

I may have gotten the specific number wrong, but My logic is flawless and the actual population of the U.S.A. does not alter My position significantly.

600k out of 307 million does not a crisis make.

 

[Modbert]

I may have gotten the specific number wrong, but My logic is flawless and the actual population of the U.S.A. does not alter My position significantly.

600k out of 307 million does not a crisis make.

Again, you're making two assumptions:

1.) All 307 million people can declare bankruptcy.

2.) All 600k cases of bankruptcy were single people.

Both assumptions are horribly wrong. Your logic is not flawless.

 

[Oddball]

Of course you don't have any hard numbers or specifics here.

I believe you chastised someone else here, for pulling numbers out of their ass not too long ago?

Except I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. Difference between using statistics that are not too specific and getting the population of the U.S wrong.

Yes, you are just pulling numbers (or non-numbers, such as it is) out of your ass.

 

[Modbert]

Yes, you are just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Except I'm not. The 600,000 number from 2008 is from Darkwind.

Might want to go, read it again, and give me a apology on that point if you don't mind.

 

[Darkwind]

So, what do we have here?

The Government is going to take over one-sixth of the economy by passing this legislation.

They are raising taxes on everyone to pay for a program that does not even begin until 2012.

They are putting requirements on citizens to purchase a product, even if they don't wish it, and will jail and significantly fine those who will not cooperate.

They claim health care won't be rationed, but that has already begun.

The Job market is bleak, job creation is non-existent and this Administration is doing nothing about it.

They are going to tax the citizenry for their energy usage based upon voodoo science and;

Their poll numbers are down to 48% and falling.

This is a good poker hand to get re-elected?

 

[Annie]

So, what do we have here?

The Government is going to take over one-sixth of the economy by passing this legislation.

They are raising taxes on everyone to pay for a program that does not even begin until 2012.

They are putting requirements on citizens to purchase a product, even if they don't wish it and will jail and significantly fine those who will not cooperate.

They claim health care won't be rationed, but that has already begun.

The Job market is bleak, job creation is non-existent and this Administration is doing nothing about it.

They are going to tax the citizenry for their energy usage based upon voodoo science and;

Their poll numbers are down to 48% and falling.

This is a good poker hand to get re-elected?

What? You're not feeling all warm and cozy? Detention camp for you!

 

[The T]

Possibly because the secret DNC letters and emails are telling them that is the case.

To hear Mr. Obama speak of it, people aren't getting their ball stones removed and by god, we simply cannot have any of that!

Yeah. Nevermind that the entire crux of the Healthscare debate lies in one of responsibility of the individual rather than what it is being touted as a right.

In that regard? It is Government's responsibility to get the Hell OUT of the way, and let the responsible individual exercise his right to that of non-government interference.

And as you know? It is Government that erected walls, that has created this crisis.

Aye. Except that there is no crisis. Just the perception of one fostered by those who have a vested interest in making sure we are panicked enough to support this take over.

Aye. And it's ONE that the Statists have concocted for their control over the people...under a false premise. The Figures bear this out. MOST are happy with what they have.

 

[Darkwind]

Yes, you are just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Except I'm not. The 600,000 number from 2008 is from Darkwind.

Might want to go, read it again, and give me a apology on that point if you don't mind.

Well, if you had actually read it, it was a projection of 1.1 million new bankruptcies. A projection. On average, there are roughly 500k bankruptcies in America during normal economic times.

I used the projected number of bankruptcies and just used your "Half of all bankruptcies are medical" as a base line to continue the discussion.

In reality, no one of us (including you) has hard numbers to base anything on.

What we do have is past performance of government, some critical thought, and an analysis of commonly held beliefs of so-called experts.

 

[Modbert]

Aye. And it's ONE that the Statists have concocted for their control over the people...under a false premise. The Figures bear this out. MOST are happy with what they have.

Today, it's only 600,000 cases. What about this year? Next year? The beginning of a crisis emerges and you want to ignore it.

You can see where this is going. If you care to solve a problem only when it becomes a crisis, then you are making a mistake of epic proportions.

 

[Oddball]

Yes, you are just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Except I'm not. The 600,000 number from 2008 is from Darkwind.

Might want to go, read it again, and give me a apology on that point if you don't mind.

I'm not talking about Darkwind. I'm talking about you trying to pass off your opinion on medical bankruptcies of the demographic least likely to have them, by citing something no more concrete than "a good number".

So technically, you're not really pulling numbers out your ass, you're pulling NON-numbers out your ass.

I stand corrected.

 

[Modbert]

Well, if you had actually read it, it was a projection of 1.1 million new bankruptcies. A projection. On average, there are roughly 500k bankruptcies in America during normal economic times.

I used the projected number of bankruptcies and just used your "Half of all bankruptcies are medical" as a base line to continue the discussion.

In reality, no one of us (including you) has hard numbers to base anything on.

What we do have is past performance of government, some critical thought, and an analysis of commonly held beliefs of so-called experts.

We have rough numbers. However, if we are to use the 600,000 cases number, then your logic is still not flawless.

You still have failed to address my points about your flawed assumptions.

 

[Darkwind]

Yeah. Nevermind that the entire crux of the Healthscare debate lies in one of responsibility of the individual rather than what it is being touted as a right.

In that regard? It is Government's responsibility to get the Hell OUT of the way, and let the responsible individual exercise his right to that of non-government interference.

And as you know? It is Government that erected walls, that has created this crisis.

Aye. Except that there is no crisis. Just the perception of one fostered by those who have a vested interest in making sure we are panicked enough to support this take over.

Aye. And it's ONE that the Statists have concocted for their control over the people...under a false premise. The Figures bear this out. MOST are happy with what they have.

Yes.

Funny thing is, I'm well employed..well, until the first of the year (Thanks Mr. Obama) but I was not happy with My medical insurance. But then, I had to take what the union agreed to. I may be better off with COBRA in the coming year, but the bottom line is, I'll have to purchase My own insurance soon.

 

[Modbert]

I'm not talking about Darkwind. I'm talking about you trying to pass off your opinion on medical bankruptcies of the demographic least likely to have them, by citing something no more concrete than "a good number".

So technically, you're not really pulling numbers out your ass, you're pulling NON-numbers out your ass.

I stand corrected.

Again, the numbers speak for themselves. The number of bankruptcies due to medical bills is rising. Whether we want to face that problem today or down the road makes a difference. I'm saying today, some are saying down the road. I'm not saying the solution is "Obamacare" however I'm saying a solution is needed.

 

[saveliberty]

Just a thought, but if health problems are forcing too many people into bankruptcy, maybe bankruptcy laws need to be changed? Before you mess with EVERYONE'S health coverage.

Funny you bring that up.

Senate Passes Bill To Restrict Bankruptcy (washingtonpost.com)

2005 article Dogbert.

 

[Oddball]

Again, the numbers speak for themselves. The number of bankruptcies due to medical bills is rising. Whether we want to face that problem today or down the road makes a difference. I'm saying today, some are saying down the road. I'm not saying the solution is "Obamacare" however I'm saying a solution is needed.

If the numbers speak for themselves, then why don't you have any of them to do the speaking?

 

[Modbert]

2005 article Dogbert.

I know full well. However, that was when the bankruptcy laws were last changed.

 

[The T]

Aye. Except that there is no crisis. Just the perception of one fostered by those who have a vested interest in making sure we are panicked enough to support this take over.

Aye. And it's ONE that the Statists have concocted for their control over the people...under a false premise. The Figures bear this out. MOST are happy with what they have.

Yes.

Funny thing is, I'm well employed..well, until the first of the year (Thanks Mr. Obama) but I was not happy with My medical insurance. But then, I had to take what the union agreed to. I may be better off with COBRA in the coming year, but the bottom line is, I'll have to purchase My own insurance soon.

Yeah you'd better do it soon. *IF* this abortion of Government Control called "HealthCare" is passed? You'll be forced to under penalty of JAIL and/or FINE for not following the DICTATE of the Imperial FED...

 

[Darkwind]

Well, if you had actually read it, it was a projection of 1.1 million new bankruptcies. A projection. On average, there are roughly 500k bankruptcies in America during normal economic times.

I used the projected number of bankruptcies and just used your "Half of all bankruptcies are medical" as a base line to continue the discussion.

In reality, no one of us (including you) has hard numbers to base anything on.

What we do have is past performance of government, some critical thought, and an analysis of commonly held beliefs of so-called experts.

We have rough numbers. However, if we are to use the 600,000 cases number, then your logic is still not flawless.

You still have failed to address my points about your flawed assumptions.

No, I did address them. A crisis of the magnitude that the government is telling us is happening would indicate that fully 25% of the population was, due to the health care system, bankrupt, unable to get any medical attention because they could not pay for it or were being turned away from medical attention due to their ability to pay.

None of that is happening. In every society, there are going to be specific percentages of people who fall between the cracks. The floor cannot be fully cement AND affordable.

Then there is the issue of legality. The US government simply does not have the authority to do what they are attempting to do.

 

[Modbert]

If the numbers speak for themselves, then why don't you have any of them to do the speaking?

Because I specifically don't have them available to me. I'm sure plenty of others do. After the Patriots game, I could certainly try to research further. However, throughout this thread, I have been addressing the fact this will turn INTO a crisis eventually. That and addressing Dark's flawed logic.

How many bankruptcies do you think we have due to medical bills each year Dude?

 

[Darkwind]

Back in a while.