40 years, a trillion dollars, zero results.

[gslack]

I think the war on drugs was actually a war to maintain control of the trade in as few a hands as possible.

My reasoning for this is based upon the time it took to actually go after mendoza and the even more blatant issues of drug traffic increasing in one area and decreasing in another.

We know, as well as the Columbian, the Mexican, and all the other drug-trafficking countries governments, who cartel bosses are. We or they could go in and shut them down anytime they wanted to but they do not. And why? Because they already know the futility in it. They go and arrest one cartel head and another takes his place. This new one may even be worse as far as greed and villainy.

They know they cannot stop drug trafficking so they try and limit it to the avenues they deem the least overall damaging. I believe men like Mendoza could be worked with by the governments, and accepted some limits and rules for his own best interest. Which was why he remained in power so long. However like so many, over time he grew too big for his britches and he was summarily removed. This showed the nest batch of leaders where the line was and how much they would tolerate as well as ending one cartel.

I believe governments feel this is a far better scenario than the alternative where they fight amongst themselves and make a bloody mess all over the place. Also without this so-called war on drugs, the drugs would be coming from everywhere and on all sides at once. There would be no way to combat such a situation.

As far as legalizing marijuana. I don't know but I do know if it were legalized it would be jumped on by the tobacco industry and then marijuana would be forever changed. not sure I would like that scenario much even if i don't use it....

 

[Avatar4321]

Huge black market? compared to legal sales? Bullshit, but you call for executing people so who the fuck cares what a dumb shit troll like yourself has to say.
I'll remember than next time you call Obama a marxist, and here you are claiming we should kill people for drug use.

Translation: You are right and the only thing I can do is call you names.

Thanks for clearing that up, Stinky.

You act like a idiot, expect to be called out on being one. BUt I know, that's all trolls like you have, post stupid shit, then play the persecution/name calling card when someone calls you out on it. YOu are a joke, anyone with half a brain knows that, so I could give a shit what you say. Such a sad existence you must have to get off on doing this

Calling BS doesn't in anyway demonstrate that he posted any sort of crap. Instead of dealing with what he said and addressing it, you went straight to the personal attack.

You think you're so much smarter than everyone but you troll worse than almost everyone else on this board. Your crude. Arrogant. And never attempt to discuss anything with anyone.

You have no idea how stupid you look. It's completely ironic. I don't know why you're so insecure with your positions. But if you want to be taken seriously, you really need to fix that.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Translation: You are right and the only thing I can do is call you names.

Thanks for clearing that up, Stinky.

You act like a idiot, expect to be called out on being one. BUt I know, that's all trolls like you have, post stupid shit, then play the persecution/name calling card when someone calls you out on it. YOu are a joke, anyone with half a brain knows that, so I could give a shit what you say. Such a sad existence you must have to get off on doing this

Calling BS doesn't in anyway demonstrate that he posted any sort of crap. Instead of dealing with what he said and addressing it, you went straight to the personal attack.

You think you're so much smarter than everyone but you troll worse than almost everyone else on this board. Your crude. Arrogant. And never attempt to discuss anything with anyone.

You have no idea how stupid you look. It's completely ironic. I don't know why you're so insecure with your positions. But if you want to be taken seriously, you really need to fix that.

ORabbi is clearly a troll, and history of his posting show so, so don't play this immediate attack.

You look stupid on a daily basis, and from a hack like you that pretends to be all smart, I could care less what you say or think. ANyone with intelligence knows better.

So save the holier than thou bullshit, you are such a phony if you are going to defend rabbi and his obvious contradictions, and constant shitting on anything liberal.

Thanks for the compliment, coming from a person like yourself, I take it as a compliment.
I'll take crude and speak my mind and opinion over phony like yourself any day. The NYer in me, and proud of it

And I am smarter than a lot of people, especially these trollish hacks that post lies, contradictions and completely uninformed opinions. I back up what I say in most cases, and I've learned who is just being a douche, and who's worthy of actual discussion. If you don't think so, then you have your head so far up your ass, or don't know what an intelligent, well informed opinion is.

Yeah, such a great position you hold, kill drug users. Brilliant! support someone who calls the president a communist, yet is here espousing communist china tactics.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Throw the war on Poverty in there and it more like $3 Trillion.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

We should surrender both wars.

 

[The Rabbi]

You act like a idiot, expect to be called out on being one. BUt I know, that's all trolls like you have, post stupid shit, then play the persecution/name calling card when someone calls you out on it. YOu are a joke, anyone with half a brain knows that, so I could give a shit what you say. Such a sad existence you must have to get off on doing this

Calling BS doesn't in anyway demonstrate that he posted any sort of crap. Instead of dealing with what he said and addressing it, you went straight to the personal attack.

You think you're so much smarter than everyone but you troll worse than almost everyone else on this board. Your crude. Arrogant. And never attempt to discuss anything with anyone.

You have no idea how stupid you look. It's completely ironic. I don't know why you're so insecure with your positions. But if you want to be taken seriously, you really need to fix that.

ORabbi is clearly a troll, and history of his posting show so, so don't play this immediate attack.

You look stupid on a daily basis, and from a hack like you that pretends to be all smart, I could care less what you say or think. ANyone with intelligence knows better.

So save the holier than thou bullshit, you are such a phony if you are going to defend rabbi and his obvious contradictions, and constant shitting on anything liberal.

Thanks for the compliment, coming from a person like yourself, I take it as a compliment.
I'll take crude and speak my mind and opinion over phony like yourself any day. The NYer in me, and proud of it

And I am smarter than a lot of people, especially these trollish hacks that post lies, contradictions and completely uninformed opinions. I back up what I say in most cases, and I've learned who is just being a douche, and who's worthy of actual discussion. If you don't think so, then you have your head so far up your ass, or don't know what an intelligent, well informed opinion is.

Yeah, such a great position you hold, kill drug users. Brilliant! support someone who calls the president a communist, yet is here espousing communist china tactics.

Troll=Anyone who has better arguments than Dr Gregg.
Thanks for clearing that one up.

Still waiting to hear why marijuana will not be subject to black market smuggling to avoid high taxes, as is done now with cigarettes.
Watiing

 

[JWBooth]

Troll=Anyone who has better arguments than Dr Gregg.
Thanks for clearing that one up.

Still waiting to hear why marijuana will not be subject to black market smuggling to avoid high taxes, as is done now with cigarettes.
Watiing

Still waiting for a rational, intelligent defense of the notion that Communist China is a model for emulation.

 

[The Rabbi]

Troll=Anyone who has better arguments than Dr Gregg.
Thanks for clearing that one up.

Still waiting to hear why marijuana will not be subject to black market smuggling to avoid high taxes, as is done now with cigarettes.
Watiing

Still waiting for a rational, intelligent defense of the notion that Communist China is a model for emulation.

Prior to the revolution they had a drug problem that undermined their society and rendered their leadership at all levels inept walking zombies. This is what is being proposed for this country.
The Communists came in and solved that problem. Now China is a world leader in their economy and a budding super-power.
Is that enough for you?

 

[JWBooth]

Troll=Anyone who has better arguments than Dr Gregg.
Thanks for clearing that one up.

Still waiting to hear why marijuana will not be subject to black market smuggling to avoid high taxes, as is done now with cigarettes.
Watiing

Still waiting for a rational, intelligent defense of the notion that Communist China is a model for emulation.

Prior to the revolution they had a drug problem that undermined their society and rendered their leadership at all levels inept walking zombies. This is what is being proposed for this country.
The Communists came in and solved that problem. Now China is a world leader in their economy and a budding super-power.
Is that enough for you?

And in the meantime, millions died while introducing an oppressive omnipresent state that crushed the individual, stifled entrepreneurialism, obliterated its history, was a threat to its neighbors, and slaughtered dissenters. That's a hell of a price to pay to end the abuse of a substance by a tiny fraction of the population. You cannot begin to imagine the abuse of state power that you are wishing on yourself and the rest of us with your little dream.

Thats not a defense of Chinese Communism as a means to fight drug abuse, it is a totalitarian nightmare beyond imagination.

 

[The Rabbi]

Still waiting for a rational, intelligent defense of the notion that Communist China is a model for emulation.

Prior to the revolution they had a drug problem that undermined their society and rendered their leadership at all levels inept walking zombies. This is what is being proposed for this country.
The Communists came in and solved that problem. Now China is a world leader in their economy and a budding super-power.
Is that enough for you?

And in the meantime, millions died while introducing an oppressive omnipresent state that crushed the individual, stifled entrepreneurialism, obliterated its history, was a threat to its neighbors, and slaughtered dissenters. That's a hell of a price to pay to end the abuse of a substance by a tiny fraction of the population. You cannot begin to imagine the abuse of state power that you are wishing on yourself and the rest of us with your little dream.

Thats not a defense of Chinese Communism as a means to fight drug abuse, it is a totalitarian nightmare beyond imagination.

Can you show me how their drug policy resulted in "millions dying from an oppressive omnipresent state"? What does "slaughtering dissenters" have to do with offering free rehab to opium addicts?
Please enlighten us.

 

[JWBooth]

Can you show me how their drug policy resulted in "millions dying from an oppressive omnipresent state"? What does "slaughtering dissenters" have to do with offering free rehab to opium addicts?
Please enlighten us.

Good God man, could you possibly be any more obtuse?
Ending opium use was but a small sideline in a much bigger play. You praise the Chinese Communist revolution because it supposedly ended drug use. You have to take the entire package that goes with that revolution into account. Are you possibly making the claim that the goal of Mao's revolution was the end of opium, and the rest was all just an unfortunate accident?

 

[The Rabbi]

No, but you seem to be.

 

[JakeStarkey]

U.S. war on drugs has met none of its goals

EDITOR’S NOTE: Four decades after Richard Nixon declared war on drugs, more Americans use them and drug-related violence has gotten worse. This is the first in a series of reports by The Associated Press examining the drug war.

So, after all this time, one would expect some radical changes in the way the war on drugs is being conducted, right?

This week President Barack Obama promised to “reduce drug use and the great damage it causes” with a new national policy that he said treats drug use more as a public health issue and focuses on prevention and treatment.

At last! A change in direction, or is it?



No, I guess not.

Well, securing the southern border is the answer, right? Most of the drugs come across there, after all.



Oh. They already did that, 40 years ago. Does that mean Mexico is not a key player?



10% of their economy!!?? Holy crap!

Does the administration understand the the war on drugs is a failure?

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn’t worked.

“In the grand scheme, it has not been successful,” Kerlikowske told The Associated Press. “Forty years later, the concern about drugs and drug problems is, if anything, magnified, intensified.”

Yes, they do. So, changes are in order, right?

Nevertheless, his administration has increased spending on interdiction and law enforcement to record levels both in dollars and in percentage terms; this year, they account for $10 billion of his $15.5 billion drug-control budget.

No, I guess not.

If it is a failure, then keep it going, increase funding, but don't make any major changes. That seems to be the current strategy, unchanged since 1970.

Want to cut the crime rate dramatically, save scores of thousands from murder, collect taxes that will help lower the debts and deficits of governments, reduce prison populations by 60%, and so on.

End prohibition on marijuana and other drugs, regulate the drugs for sale like tobacco and alcohol, and watch crime go down, revenues go up, and all of society having to become with addiction.

 

[The Rabbi]

End prohibition on marijuana and other drugs, regulate the drugs for sale like tobacco and alcohol, and watch crime go down, revenues go up, and all of society having to become with addiction.

What if we don't want society to become with addiction?

 

[JWBooth]

No, but you seem to be.

Care to expound upon your non reply?

 

[JakeStarkey]

End prohibition on marijuana and other drugs, regulate the drugs for sale like tobacco and alcohol, and watch crime go down, revenues go up, and all of society having to become with addiction.

What if we don't want society to become involved with addiction?

You left out the word "become", Rabblerouser, because I did. Thanks for the correction, it's been made, now what do you have to say about it.

 

[The Rabbi]

End prohibition on marijuana and other drugs, regulate the drugs for sale like tobacco and alcohol, and watch crime go down, revenues go up, and all of society having to become with addiction.

What if we don't want society to become involved with addiction?

You left out the word "become", Rabblerouser, because I did. Thanks for the correction, it's been made, now what do you have to say about it.

I say I dont want society to become involved with addiction. The opposite. I want society to be free of addiction. I want people to spend their time and money on something productive, instead of getting high and killing each others and themselves.
In short, I don't want the average intelligence of this society to approach yours.

 

[tommywho70x]

What if we don't want society to become involved with addiction?

You left out the word "become", Rabblerouser, because I did. Thanks for the correction, it's been made, now what do you have to say about it.

I say I dont want society to become involved with addiction. The opposite. I want society to be free of addiction. I want people to spend their time and money on something productive, instead of getting high and killing each others and themselves.
In short, I don't want the average intelligence of this society to approach yours.

more people are addicted to and die from prescription medications than the organic psychotropes that are the focus of the drug war. when countries like the UK and the Netherlands have experimented with legalization of heroin, they found the crime rate and addiction rate to drop.

the drug war, like all other wars, is a fraud and only serves to enrich the people who finance it.

 

[The Rabbi]

You left out the word "become", Rabblerouser, because I did. Thanks for the correction, it's been made, now what do you have to say about it.

I say I dont want society to become involved with addiction. The opposite. I want society to be free of addiction. I want people to spend their time and money on something productive, instead of getting high and killing each others and themselves.
In short, I don't want the average intelligence of this society to approach yours.

more people are addicted to and die from prescription medications than the organic psychotropes that are the focus of the drug war. when countries like the UK and the Netherlands have experimented with legalization of heroin, they found the crime rate and addiction rate to drop.

the drug war, like all other wars, is a fraud and only serves to enrich the people who finance it.

So your solution to people dying from prescription drugs is to make things worse?

 

[tommywho70x]

I say I dont want society to become involved with addiction. The opposite. I want society to be free of addiction. I want people to spend their time and money on something productive, instead of getting high and killing each others and themselves.
In short, I don't want the average intelligence of this society to approach yours.

more people are addicted to and die from prescription medications than the organic psychotropes that are the focus of the drug war. when countries like the UK and the Netherlands have experimented with legalization of heroin, they found the crime rate and addiction rate to drop.

the drug war, like all other wars, is a fraud and only serves to enrich the people who finance it.

So your solution to people dying from prescription drugs is to make things worse?

i haven't proposed any solution. just made a statement of fact.

the entire approach to food and drugs by the united states government needs a serious overhaul.

organic substances that have been medicine for thousands of years are suddenly demonized in the last century and replaced with synthetic analogs that are more dangerous and nowhere near as effective as the drug they replaced.

my favorite example is valium which is a patented analog of the active ingredient in valerian root. i don't have the current figures but there are millions of people addicted to valium and lots of suicides by overdose. if you have ever smelled or tasted valerian root tea you would know that abuse of that substance is unlikely --- shit smells and tastes like dirty old socks but a pill goes down easy.

cui bono? follow the money and you will see giant pharmaceutical houses and drug kingpins making mountains of it at the expense of everybody else's health and safety.