3 fires in Tesla-S in six weeks

[whitehall]

Tesla stock is falling after three $70k Tesla-S cars were completely destroyed by battery fires in six weeks. Nobody was killed. Tesla says it plans to fix the problem by raising the ground clearance.

 

[Abraham3]

"Given that the incidence of fires in the Model S is far lower than combustion cars and that there have been no resulting injuries, this did not at first seem like a good use of NHTSA's time," the company said on its blog. "However ... if a false perception about the safety of electric cars is allowed to linger, it will delay the advent of sustainable transport." ---Tesla Motors

 

[Star]

Tesla stock is falling after three $70k Tesla-S cars were completely destroyed by battery fires in six weeks. Nobody was killed. Tesla says it plans to fix the problem by raising the ground clearance.

sez -- you lie!
.

 

[whitehall]

"Given that the incidence of fires in the Model S is far lower than combustion cars and that there have been no resulting injuries, this did not at first seem like a good use of NHTSA's time," the company said on its blog. "However ... if a false perception about the safety of electric cars is allowed to linger, it will delay the advent of sustainable transport." ---Tesla Motors

How many 70G brand new fossil fueled cars are totally destroyed by fire every year unrelated to a crash or outside causes? Like none? It's a freaking design flaw probably inherent in all battery cars.

 

[westwall]

"Given that the incidence of fires in the Model S is far lower than combustion cars and that there have been no resulting injuries, this did not at first seem like a good use of NHTSA's time," the company said on its blog. "However ... if a false perception about the safety of electric cars is allowed to linger, it will delay the advent of sustainable transport." ---Tesla Motors

Considering how few Tesla's are out there, the fact that two fires have started in them after striking metal objects in the road (the guy that hit the tree I'll give a pass to as a fire would likely have resulted from that crash in an ICE car as well) which would NOT have occurred in an ICE powered vehicle I think they are being prudent in the change. I would also be looking at hardening the battery box. It increases the weight, which will decrees the max performance, but I think it is a necessary thing.

 

[Old Rocks]

"Given that the incidence of fires in the Model S is far lower than combustion cars and that there have been no resulting injuries, this did not at first seem like a good use of NHTSA's time," the company said on its blog. "However ... if a false perception about the safety of electric cars is allowed to linger, it will delay the advent of sustainable transport." ---Tesla Motors

Considering how few Tesla's are out there, the fact that two fires have started in them after striking metal objects in the road (the guy that hit the tree I'll give a pass to as a fire would likely have resulted from that crash in an ICE car as well) which would NOT have occurred in an ICE powered vehicle I think they are being prudent in the change. I would also be looking at hardening the battery box. It increases the weight, which will decrees the max performance, but I think it is a necessary thing.

Maybe not occur in an ICE. Puncture the gas tank, and you have a good chance of of a fire in an ICE. But, yes, a hardening of the battery box, raise the clearance a couple of inches, and, maybe, have a channel to funnel fire chemicals in to put out the battery fire if one occurres. I doubt the decrease in performance would be more than a couple of tenths of a second in the 0 to 60 mph acceleration. Say, an increase to 4.4 seconds, rather than the present 4.2 seconds. Still a fantastic vehicle.

 

[westwall]

"Given that the incidence of fires in the Model S is far lower than combustion cars and that there have been no resulting injuries, this did not at first seem like a good use of NHTSA's time," the company said on its blog. "However ... if a false perception about the safety of electric cars is allowed to linger, it will delay the advent of sustainable transport." ---Tesla Motors

Considering how few Tesla's are out there, the fact that two fires have started in them after striking metal objects in the road (the guy that hit the tree I'll give a pass to as a fire would likely have resulted from that crash in an ICE car as well) which would NOT have occurred in an ICE powered vehicle I think they are being prudent in the change. I would also be looking at hardening the battery box. It increases the weight, which will decrees the max performance, but I think it is a necessary thing.

Maybe not occur in an ICE. Puncture the gas tank, and you have a good chance of of a fire in an ICE. But, yes, a hardening of the battery box, raise the clearance a couple of inches, and, maybe, have a channel to funnel fire chemicals in to put out the battery fire if one occurres. I doubt the decrease in performance would be more than a couple of tenths of a second in the 0 to 60 mph acceleration. Say, an increase to 4.4 seconds, rather than the present 4.2 seconds. Still a fantastic vehicle.

I've never heard of a metal strike under the fuel tank causing a fire. It takes a hell of a hit for a ICE vehicle to flame up, well except for the Pinto that is! So yes, I do think the Tesla has an issue and they are moving to correct it as they should.

And yes, it's performance is quite good. I even took one out for a spin. I still prefer my GT40 though! Which for the record, ALSO accelerates from 0-60 in 4.2 seconds....and has a top end of around 213 mph....in a near 50 year old vehicle!

 

[whitehall]

Tesla stock dropped around 35% from around 200 per share to around 130 per share. It isn't just drivers who are nervous about the once touted "safest car in America", the investors are less confident of the concept.

 

[RollingThunder]

Tesla stock is falling after three $70k Tesla-S cars were completely destroyed by battery fires in six weeks. Nobody was killed. Tesla says it plans to fix the problem by raising the ground clearance.

How many 70G brand new fossil fueled cars are totally destroyed by fire every year unrelated to a crash or outside causes? Like none? It's a freaking design flaw probably inherent in all battery cars.

You are such a lying POS, crapball. And still stooging for the interests of the fossil fuel industry, I see. Those cars were not "completely destroyed". The damage was confined to the front end and didn't touch the passenger comparment or the rest of the car. All three fires were the result of a crash or hitting large debris on the highway at high speed.

Damn, you anti-environmental nutbaggers are so wacko in your manipulated opposition to any positive technological advances that might reduce the world's addiction to fossil fuels.

How Does the Tesla Model S Fire Risk Compare to Gasoline Cars?
By Elon Musk
(press release - not under copyright)
(excerpts)

Since the Model S went into production last year, there have been more than a quarter million gasoline car fires in the United States alone, resulting in over 400 deaths and approximately 1,200 serious injuries (extrapolating 2012 NFPA data). However, the three Model S fires, which only occurred after very high-speed collisions and caused no serious injuries or deaths, received more national headlines than all 250,000+ gasoline fires combined. The media coverage of Model S fires vs. gasoline car fires is disproportionate by several orders of magnitude, despite the latter actually being far more deadly. Reading the headlines, it is therefore easy to assume that the Tesla Model S and perhaps electric cars in general have a greater propensity to catch fire than gasoline cars when nothing could be further from the truth. Journalists with a deep knowledge of the car industry, such as the news editor of Automotive News, understand and attempt to rebut this notion, but they have been drowned out by an onslaught of popular and financial media seeking to make a sensation out of something that a simple Google search would reveal to be false. I would also like to express appreciation for the investigative journalists who took the time to research and write an accurate article. The degree to which this is outrageous is described well in the above-mentioned Automotive News article. There are now substantially more than the 19,000 Model S vehicles on the road that were reported in our Q3 shareholder letter for an average of one fire per at least 6,333 cars, compared to the rate for gasoline vehicles of one fire per 1,350 cars. By this metric, you are more than four and a half times more likely to experience a fire in a gasoline car than a Model S! Considering the odds in the absolute, you are more likely to be struck by lightning in your lifetime than experience even a non-injurious fire in a Tesla.

Those metrics tell only part of the story. The far more deadly nature of a gasoline car fire deserves to be re-emphasized. Since the Model S went into production mid last year, there have been over 400 deaths and 1,200 serious injuries in the United States alone due to gasoline car fires, compared to zero deaths and zero injuries due to Tesla fires anywhere in the world. There is a real, physical reason for this: a gasoline tank has 10 times more combustion energy than our battery pack. Moreover, the Model S battery pack also has internal firewalls between the 16 modules and a firewall between the battery pack and passenger compartment. This effectively limits the fire energy to a few percent that of a gasoline car and is the reason why Dr. Shibayama was able to retrieve his pens and papers from the glove compartment completely untouched after the recent fire (caused by a high speed impact with a tow hitch). It is also why arsonists tend to favor gasoline. Trying to set the side of a building on fire with a battery pack is far less effective. What About Safety Overall? - Our primary concern is not for the safety of the vehicle, which can easily be replaced, but for the safety of our customers and the families they entrust to our cars. Based on the Model S track record so far, you have a zero percent chance of being hurt in an accident resulting in a battery fire, but what about other types of accidents? Despite multiple high-speed accidents, there have been no deaths or serious injuries in a Model S of any kind ever. Of course, at some point, the law of large numbers dictates that this, too, will change, but the record is long enough already for us to be extremely proud of this achievement. This is why the Model S achieved the lowest probability of injury of any car ever tested by the US government. The probability of injury is the most accurate statistical figure of merit, showing clearly that the Model S is safer in an accident than any other vehicle without exception. It is literally impossible for another car to have a better safety track record, as it would have to possess mystical powers of healing.

 

[Star]

Tesla stock dropped around 35% from around 200 per share to around 130 per share. It isn't just drivers who are nervous about the once touted "safest car in America", the investors are less confident of the concept.

Pull the wool from your eyes dude/dudette, the below is from the article I linked to in an earlier post -- what were you thinking?

"Tesla Motors stock spiked Tuesday, ending up 3.7% for the day to close at $126.09 after dipping to $115.60 in pre-market trading.
The stock had tumbled between sessions as investors reacted to federal safety officials opening an official preliminary investigation into fires in Tesla's luxury electric cars.
Investors quickly decided it was an overreaction and began bidding up the price, after an initial dip at the open.


<snip>

Drivers of the three Model S Teslas, which caught fire after hitting road debris, were unhurt, and praised the cars for helping them escape injury."

pewsh!
.

 

[Politico]

Comparing numbers between millions and hundreds. Thunder you are a tree hugging hoot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Not hundreds now, thousands. And many more thousands to come.

 

[westwall]

Not hundreds now, thousands. And many more thousands to come.

Yep. They were supposed to deliver 5000 in 2012 but that number got revised down to around 3000. It's hard to tell though because Tesla isn't a very forthcoming company when it comes to production figures. The estimate is based on the reporting from the Tesla club members.

 

[flacaltenn]

Nascar had a solution for fuel tank fires years ago. Upon impact, the fuel gels quickly limiting the fire to fuel already in the lines and the engine.

At the least -- raising the road clearance is gonna greatly lower the "sex appeal" of the S-car.
And in MANY STATES -- any road accident with these huge battery EVs is considered a "toxic spill" situation. Might require a Hazmat response.

Some warnings from Ford..

http://elvsolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Fusion_MKZ_Energi Battery Removal_Final.pdf

WARNING: ELECTRIC VEHICLES DAMAGED BY A CRASH MAY HAVE COMPROMISED
HIGH-VOLTAGE SAFETY SYSTEMS AND PRESENT A POTENTIAL HIGH-VOLTAGE
ELECTRICAL SHOCK HAZARD. EXERCISE CAUTION AND WEAR APPROPRIATE
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) SAFETY GEAR, INCLUDING HIGH-VOLTAGE
SAFETY GLOVES AND BOOTS. REMOVE ALL METALLIC JEWELRY, INCLUDING WATCHES
AND RINGS. ISOLATE THE HV SYSTEM AS DIRECTED BY THE FORD EMERGENCY
RESPONSE GUIDE FOR THE VEHICLE. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY
RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.

WARNING: FIRES IN CRASH-DAMAGED ELECTRIC VEHICLES MAY EMIT TOXIC OR
COMBUSTIBLE GASSES. SMALL AMOUNTS OF EYE, SKIN OR LUNG IRRITANTS MAY BE
PRESENT. WEAR PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) AND SELF-CONTAINED
BREATHING APPARATUS WHEN WORKING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY OR IN A CONFINED AREA,
SUCH AS A TUNNEL OR GARAGE. VENTILATE THE VEHICLE INTERIOR BY OPENING
VEHICLE WINDOWS OR DOORS. VENTILATE THE WORKING AREA. FAILURE TO FOLLOW
THIS INSTRUCTION MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.

WARNING: DAMAGED ELECTRIC VEHICLES SUBMERGED IN WATER PRESENT A
POTENTIAL HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRICAL SHOCK HAZARD. EXERCISE CAUTION AND
WEAR APPROPRIATE PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) SAFETY GEAR,
INCLUDING HIGH VOLTAGE SAFETY GLOVES AND BOOTS. REMOVE ALL METALLIC
JEWELRY, INCLUDING WATCHES AND RINGS. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EXTRACT THE
VEHICLE UNTIL THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY HAS DISCHARGED INDICATED BY THE
ABSENCE OF BUBBLING OR FIZZING. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY
RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH

WARNING: ELECTRIC VEHICLES WITH DAMAGED HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERIES
REQUIRE SPECIAL HANDLING PRECAUTIONS. INSPECT THE VEHICLE CAREFULLY
FOR LEAKING BATTERY FLUIDS, SPARKS, FLAMES, AND GURGLING OR BUBBLING
SOUNDS. CONTACT EMERGENCY SERVICES IMMEDIATELY IF ANY OF THESE
PROBLEMS ARE OBSERVED. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY
RESULT IN A VEHICLE FIRE AND PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.

Enjoy your ride..

And if you're going thru the Lincoln Tunnel -- you might want to make sure that there are no EVs in there with you...

 

[whitehall]

Wow, lots of emotional support for Tesla on the left. Tesla only sold 12,000 of the units and radical environmentalists are dancing in the streets. Ford sold about 120,000 Edsels in 1959 and dropped production because of poor sales.

 

[Abraham3]

Wow - not one single word challenging anything in Elon Musk's statement.

I guess we can accept that the Tesla S is just about the safest car ever produced. There seems to be a consensus, even around here.

 

[westwall]

Nascar had a solution for fuel tank fires years ago. Upon impact, the fuel gels quickly limiting the fire to fuel already in the lines and the engine.

At the least -- raising the road clearance is gonna greatly lower the "sex appeal" of the S-car.
And in MANY STATES -- any road accident with these huge battery EVs is considered a "toxic spill" situation. Might require a Hazmat response.

Some warnings from Ford..

http://elvsolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Fusion_MKZ_Energi Battery Removal_Final.pdf

WARNING: ELECTRIC VEHICLES DAMAGED BY A CRASH MAY HAVE COMPROMISED
HIGH-VOLTAGE SAFETY SYSTEMS AND PRESENT A POTENTIAL HIGH-VOLTAGE
ELECTRICAL SHOCK HAZARD. EXERCISE CAUTION AND WEAR APPROPRIATE
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) SAFETY GEAR, INCLUDING HIGH-VOLTAGE
SAFETY GLOVES AND BOOTS. REMOVE ALL METALLIC JEWELRY, INCLUDING WATCHES
AND RINGS. ISOLATE THE HV SYSTEM AS DIRECTED BY THE FORD EMERGENCY
RESPONSE GUIDE FOR THE VEHICLE. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY
RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.

WARNING: FIRES IN CRASH-DAMAGED ELECTRIC VEHICLES MAY EMIT TOXIC OR
COMBUSTIBLE GASSES. SMALL AMOUNTS OF EYE, SKIN OR LUNG IRRITANTS MAY BE
PRESENT. WEAR PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) AND SELF-CONTAINED
BREATHING APPARATUS WHEN WORKING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY OR IN A CONFINED AREA,
SUCH AS A TUNNEL OR GARAGE. VENTILATE THE VEHICLE INTERIOR BY OPENING
VEHICLE WINDOWS OR DOORS. VENTILATE THE WORKING AREA. FAILURE TO FOLLOW
THIS INSTRUCTION MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.

WARNING: DAMAGED ELECTRIC VEHICLES SUBMERGED IN WATER PRESENT A
POTENTIAL HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRICAL SHOCK HAZARD. EXERCISE CAUTION AND
WEAR APPROPRIATE PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) SAFETY GEAR,
INCLUDING HIGH VOLTAGE SAFETY GLOVES AND BOOTS. REMOVE ALL METALLIC
JEWELRY, INCLUDING WATCHES AND RINGS. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EXTRACT THE
VEHICLE UNTIL THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY HAS DISCHARGED INDICATED BY THE
ABSENCE OF BUBBLING OR FIZZING. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY
RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH

WARNING: ELECTRIC VEHICLES WITH DAMAGED HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERIES
REQUIRE SPECIAL HANDLING PRECAUTIONS. INSPECT THE VEHICLE CAREFULLY
FOR LEAKING BATTERY FLUIDS, SPARKS, FLAMES, AND GURGLING OR BUBBLING
SOUNDS. CONTACT EMERGENCY SERVICES IMMEDIATELY IF ANY OF THESE
PROBLEMS ARE OBSERVED. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY
RESULT IN A VEHICLE FIRE AND PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.

Enjoy your ride..

And if you're going thru the Lincoln Tunnel -- you might want to make sure that there are no EVs in there with you...

You know that's a real good point. I hadn't even considered the expense of the HAZMAT cleanup after an accident. I wonder who gets to pay for that little gift? If you are a pool cleaner and drop a gallon of muriatic acid off of your truck you get to pay for the cleanup and that is nothing compared to the cleanup from a EV crash.

Hmmmmm...

That is actually a very serious issue. Good catch.

 

[westwall]

Wow - not one single word challenging anything in Elon Musk's statement.

I guess we can accept that the Tesla S is just about the safest car ever produced. There seems to be a consensus, even around here.

It certainly tests well, which is good, but with so few on the road and such a small crash record to go on it will certainly rank up there. However, I know of two McLaren F1's which crashed at over 200 mph and the drivers survived...one even walked away, so I think that car ranks way over the Model S.

 

[Politico]

Not hundreds now, thousands. And many more thousands to come.

I said hoot not coot.

 

[RollingThunder]

Nascar had a solution for fuel tank fires years ago. Upon impact, the fuel gels quickly limiting the fire to fuel already in the lines and the engine.

That must be good news to the 400 people who died in gasoline fires in IC engine vehicles last year alone. What does it have to do with the real world we all have to drive in?

At the least -- raising the road clearance is gonna greatly lower the "sex appeal" of the S-car.

ROTFLMAO.....oh, fecalhead, your knee-jerk opposition to anything that would take business away from the oil corps is just so funny to watch....and so very retarded....unless you're collecting a check from Exxon or the Koch brothers for your efforts...

And in MANY STATES -- any road accident with these huge battery EVs is considered a "toxic spill" situation. Might require a Hazmat response.

More BS. All three fires so far have been extinguished with water, plus in at least one case, a dry chemical extinguisher. No "toxic spills", no "Hazmat responce" necessary. As Elon Musk explained in the material I posted earlier, the Tesla batteries are compartmentalized into 16 separate modules with internal firewalls, making it very difficult for an road accident to "spill" very much if any at all of the liquid electrolyte in those "huge" batteries. If some stuff did spill, how much area would it cover....a few square feet? Here's a real TOXIC SPILL that affected millions of people and hundreds of millions of other creatures. One of many that happen fairly frequently all around the world.

Over 10 million gallons have been set ablaze. "We've burned more oil than the Exxon Valdez spilled," a worker said. - (Carolyn Cole / Los Angeles Times / July 10, 2010)

Workers hired by BP rake up globs of oil, which have come ashore on the beaches in southern Louisiana, near Port Fourchon and Grand Isle. It coats the beaches, and each wave brings a new batch. - (Carolyn Cole / Los Angeles Times / May 22, 2010)

Seen from a helicopter, oil swirls in the waters of the Gulf of Mexico.
(Rick Loomis / Los Angeles Times / May 6, 2010)

source:
Massive oil spill spreads in Gulf of Mexico
The Los Angeles Times
November 15, 2012